The judging is more fucked up now then ever....thanks

[jwb]

Bloody hell Vince nobody is holding a gun to these athletes heads.

The IFBB sure ain't perfect but they aren't any worse than any other sports organization I've seen.

We know they have to have a 2 day show to make the money so the question is what is the best way to judge that.

From PBW it sounds like the two Jim's want something judged from the free posing again.

Not judging anything from it may turn it into a farce pretty quickly.

Maybe they should say "okay, we will judge the free posing as a physique round not as a best poser/gets the most applause because you shake your ass round and the requirement is that you have to perform at least 10 muscle display poses than you hold for at least 2 seconds each (loosely enforced but the point is it has to involve some posing again not just dancing around the entire time or spinning on your head but you can do that in between the 10 required poses of your choice)."

So that brings them back to 3 rounds: Pre judging, Free Posing, Posedown/Final Comparisons.

The question then becomes how much should each round be worth?

[MCWAY]

At the professional level, I can't see a women's only show being profitable.  Isn't it true that if the women held their Olympia separate from the men, they wold lose money, even with the addition of fitness, figure & bikini?   

Probably. But, it wasn't always like that. The Ms. Olympia used to be held by itself, months before or after the Mr. Olympia.

[Vince B]

Stop apologizing for the Pro League and IFBB. They appoint a lifetime pro athletes rep for %$#% sake. That is the kind of nonsense that Chick likes. Give him a new monkey suit and let him MC the shows as well. Clearly, no sensible person would offer to do that job! No competing bodybuilder would or should do that job.

The Olympia should be run for what is best for the bodybuilders. If having the show over two days spoils the judging process then don't have it over two days. That show and event should be able to make a profit holding the Olympia on the Saturday night. There is absolutely no way that any levity can be tolerated re the judging process. Once the judges mingle the independence is over and the contest is contaminated. Haven't you people judged contests? I have had to run the judging at contests in an organization we had in Australia after the Mr Olympia fiasco in 1980. Believe me, judges will look at the score sheets of other judges. So they most certainly will discuss the competitors if you let them mingle. Also, there should be NO opportunity for head judges and other officials to chat to the judges if they still have to rejudge the competition. Errant judges can be pointed in the right direction. They should publish detailed results and complete judging sheets. Nothing less is acceptable. Contests must be fair and transparent.

The Pro League/IFBB could care less about the bodybuilders. If they did then rigid and valid testing for banned substances would be rigourously done at the contest and off season. Look at the calibre of officials in that organization. Look at how Bob C behaves on this forum. The guy is a thug and a stooge all in one! It would be funny but these people are ruining the sport not improving it.

[Chick]

Stop apologizing for the Pro League and IFBB. They appoint a lifetime pro athletes rep for %$#% sake. That is the kind of nonsense that Chick likes. Give him a new monkey suit and let him MC the shows as well. Clearly, no sensible person would offer to do that job! No competing bodybuilder would or should do that job.

The Olympia should be run for what is best for the bodybuilders. If having the show over two days spoils the judging process then don't have it over two days. That show and event should be able to make a profit holding the Olympia on the Saturday night. There is absolutely no way that any levity can be tolerated re the judging process. Once the judges mingle the independence is over and the contest is contaminated. Haven't you people judged contests? I have had to run the judging at contests in an organization we had in Australia after the Mr Olympia fiasco in 1980. Believe me, judges will look at the score sheets of other judges. So they most certainly will discuss the competitors if you let them mingle. Also, there should be NO opportunity for head judges and other officials to chat to the judges if they still have to rejudge the competition. Errant judges can be pointed in the right direction. They should publish detailed results and complete judging sheets. Nothing less is acceptable. Contests must be fair and transparent.

The Pro League/IFBB could care less about the bodybuilders. If they did then rigid and valid testing for banned substances would be rigourously done at the contest and off season. Look at the calibre of officials in that organization. Look at how Bob C behaves on this forum. The guy is a thug and a stooge all in one! It would be funny but these people are ruining the sport not improving it.

Seriously Basile...you're an ignorant fool.

And unable to answer the easiest of questions, as usual...

Still lloking for ypou to explain how Pro BB is in the toilet, when the numbers I posted point to the complete opposite

[MB]

Probably. But, it wasn't always like that. The Ms. Olympia used to be held by itself, months before or after the Mr. Olympia.

It was on it's deathbed before it was combined with the Mr. Olympia.  Remember in '99 when it was cancelled, then rescheduled.  My point is that FBB is seen as a losing venture, yet fitness, figure, & bikini (at the professional level) don't make money either. 

[jwb]

Stop apologizing for the Pro League and IFBB. They appoint a lifetime pro athletes rep for %$#% sake. That is the kind of nonsense that Chick likes. Give him a new monkey suit and let him MC the shows as well. Clearly, no sensible person would offer to do that job! No competing bodybuilder would or should do that job.

The Olympia should be run for what is best for the bodybuilders. If having the show over two days spoils the judging process then don't have it over two days. That show and event should be able to make a profit holding the Olympia on the Saturday night. There is absolutely no way that any levity can be tolerated re the judging process. Once the judges mingle the independence is over and the contest is contaminated. Haven't you people judged contests? I have had to run the judging at contests in an organization we had in Australia after the Mr Olympia fiasco in 1980. Believe me, judges will look at the score sheets of other judges. So they most certainly will discuss the competitors if you let them mingle. Also, there should be NO opportunity for head judges and other officials to chat to the judges if they still have to rejudge the competition. Errant judges can be pointed in the right direction. They should publish detailed results and complete judging sheets. Nothing less is acceptable. Contests must be fair and transparent.

The Pro League/IFBB could care less about the bodybuilders. If they did then rigid and valid testing for banned substances would be rigourously done at the contest and off season. Look at the calibre of officials in that organization. Look at how Bob C behaves on this forum. The guy is a thug and a stooge all in one! It would be funny but these people are ruining the sport not improving it.
I have judged contests Vince... stop complaining and throw out some decent ideas.

[Vince B]

Bob, Bob, Bob, shake your sorry head and clear your brain. Those numbers don't impress me. Look at the damage being done to all those professional bodybuilders who have to make that awful choice to gear up to be on a level playing field. That is a price no one should have to pay. Who here would encourage sons, relatives or friends to become a professional bodybuilder? It is a sad and sorry profession if you can call it that. Bodybuilding isn't as popular as it was decades ago. I recall when the Olympia was broadcast on sports TV. Those days are long gone. Even kids in the street have heard about the steroids the musclemen take. The sport is ruined and doomed with dunces and stooges running it. I don't expect you to comprehend this because you were hand picked because of your meager intellect. They recruit people who follow orders. What a sorry joke the Pro League is. Jim Manion has done a lot of damage. We can't blame Ben because he is no longer with us.

Well might you try to ridicule and silence me but I am made of sterner stuff. The drugs, Bob, are what has ruined this sport. No, it is the toleration of those substances that has ruined the sport.

[Chick]

Bob, Bob, Bob, shake your sorry head and clear your brain. Those numbers don't impress me.

They should...Jay/ Phil/ Branch/ etc each made more at the Meet the Olympians, than you did in the last 6 months...

 Look at the damage being done to all those professional bodybuilders who have to make that awful choice to gear up to be on a level playing field. That is a price no one should have to pay.

No one HAS to pay it, its a choice...just like every other athlete makes

 Who here would encourage sons, relatives or friends to become a professional bodybuilder? It is a sad and sorry profession if you can call it that. Bodybuilding isn't as popular as it was decades ago. I recall when the Olympia was broadcast on sports TV. Those days are long gone.

Numbers dictate that you're wrong...just because it was broadcast a few times doesnt mean is was "more popular"....It was something new they were seeing if it had any economic viability...it didnt. There also werent Expos with thousands of fans attending "back in the day".

 Even kids in the street have heard about the steroids the musclemen take. The sport is ruined and doomed with dunces and stooges running it.

Yeah, they probaby heard it inbtween breaking stories of The Baseball congressional steroid  hearings and the football players getting suspended for PED use..



 I don't expect you to comprehend this because you were hand picked because of your meager intellect. They recruit people who follow orders. What a sorry joke the Pro League is. Jim Manion has done a lot of damage. We can't blame Ben because he is no longer with us.

Jim Manion has put more people in a position to make a living from the sport than any other single person in this industry...without question.

Well might you try to ridicule and silence me but I am made of sterner stuff. The drugs, Bob, are what has ruined this sport. No, it is the toleration of those substances that has ruined the sport.

No one cares to silence you , Basile...every time you open your mouth, it only makes people more aware of how retarded you are, but it's good for amusment...

[Man of Steel]

Chick, I have nothing of value to contribute to this discussion, but I did wanna tell you how gorgeous you looked at the Olympia (total homo).

Brutal man crushing.......true story.

[erics]

Granted, the way that Vince and Bob are at each other's throats all the time clouds the argument, but that doesn't mean that the points that, in this case, Vince raises are any less legitimate.

Bob, I know you've taken the time to at least attempt to address some of the issues I've brought up and so for that, thanks. Nonetheless, not everything that is raised by others need to be considered an attack on you personally (and even when it is, there are better ways I feel, of handling them, especially considering the position that you hold politically within the industry).

As for the judging issues, well, I think it is plain to see that there is some work to be done in improving the entire process. Perhaps the IFBB should try out (if it already doesn't) its new rules ideas on the smaller shows to see the practical results.

In anycase, there are some decent ideas and supporting concepts amongst many of the attacks and revenge attacks that usually passes for 'discussion' on this board. Hopefully they can be picked up and trialled before being dismissed.

[Chick]

Granted, the way that Vince and Bob are at each other's throats all the time clouds the argument, but that doesn't mean that the points that, in this case, Vince raises are any less legitimate.

Bob, I know you've taken the time to at least attempt to address some of the issues I've brought up and so for that, thanks. Nonetheless, not everything that is raised by others need to be considered an attack on you personally (and even when it is, there are better ways I feel, of handling them, especially considering the position that you hold politically within the industry).

As for the judging issues, well, I think it is plain to see that there is some work to be done in improving the entire process. Perhaps the IFBB should try out (if it already doesn't) its new rules ideas on the smaller shows to see the practical results.

In anycase, there are some decent ideas and supporting concepts amongst many of the attacks and revenge attacks that usually passes for 'discussion' on this board. Hopefully they can be picked up and trialled before being dismissed.

Unfortunately, Basile has no ammunition to fight with, as he is about as out of the loop as one can be...as evidenced by his ridiculous answers ( or non answers)

[erics]

Issues of accountability, transparency and legitimacy are always their own ammunition.

I'd forget about the personal snipes and counter-snipes. The issues raised are legitimate ones and it doesn't take someone 'in' the loop to be able to raise them (nor to discuss them)

In anycase, I know this doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand but I thought that what they did with the honouring of the Olympia winners of the past was a very good thing.

I think that the sport - as a sport - needs more of that kind of thing. There ought to be more emphasis on it.

[Chick]

Issues of accountability, transparency and legitimacy are always their own ammunition.

I'd forget about the personal snipes and counter-snipes. The issues raised are legitimate ones and it doesn't take someone 'in' the loop to be able to raise them (nor to discuss them)

In anycase, I know this doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand but I thought that what they did with the honouring of the Olympia winners of the past was a very good thing.

I think that the sport - as a sport - needs more of that kind of thing. There ought to be more emphasis on it.

What issues raised are you referring to?

It takes someone in the loop to be able to comprehend the answers given...oitherwise, it's as easy as pie to simply dismiss them and put no merit into the answers given.  As Basile has shown numerous times, he's unable to have a simple debate, or to give any type of subjective answer, when he's had nothing to do with the bodybuilding scene since the Ford Administration...

[NaturalWonder83]

What issues raised are you referring to?

It takes someone in the loop to be able to comprehend the answers given...oitherwise, it's as easy as pie to simply dismiss them and put no merit into the answers given.  As Basile has shown numerous times, he's unable to have a simple debate, or to give any type of subjective answer, when he's had nothing to do with the bodybuilding scene since the Ford Administration...

a box of fruit loops is more well known than u bobby boy
do us all a favor and stop messing up the ifbb w/ your rediculous ideas and stay off the olympia stage next year-let jerome ferguson or randy orton or john cena host

[Chick]

a box of fruit loops is more well known than u bobby boy
do us all a favor and stop messing up the ifbb w/ your rediculous ideas and stay off the olympia stage next year-let jerome ferguson or randy orton or john cena host

Uhhhh....yeah.....learn to spell ridiculous, one would think you would be familiar

[Army of One]

a box of fruit loops is more well known than u bobby boy
do us all a favor and stop messing up the ifbb w/ your rediculous ideas and stay off the olympia stage next year-let jerome ferguson or randy orton or john cena host

Bob was terrible on stage, all his jokes fell flat and lets not even mention Bob's Xenophobia against German speaking people at the athletes meeting, to make Ronnie look foolish because of his broken english was about as low a move as you can pull off.

[Chick]

Bob was terrible on stage, all his jokes fell flat and lets not even mention Bob's Xenophobia against German speaking people at the athletes meeting, to make Ronnie look foolish because of his broken english was about as low a move as you can pull off.

Were you and NW seperated at birth? 

[NaturalWonder83]

Uhhhh....yeah.....learn to spell ridiculous, one would think you would be familiar

the sure sign of a broken man is when they resort to being the spelling police
i would imagine u feel threatened that they could take your mc gig
i think i will email the ifbb and let them know my suggestion

Bob was terrible on stage, all his jokes fell flat and lets not even mention Bob's Xenophobia against German speaking people at the athletes meeting, to make Ronnie look foolish because of his broken english was about as low a move as you can pull off.

x2

[erics]

What issues raised are you referring to?

Accountability, transparency and legitimacy.

The way the show is set up and progresses really influences how all three issues are seen. I wonder if conspiracy theories are as strong in other sports as they are in bodybuilding. In anycase, the thing is, even if there is absolutely no truth to the rumours of conspiracies and biases etc, the way the event is set up makes it hard to believe otherwise.

Basically, there are many ways that the whole thing could be improved and whatever beef you and anyone else has with Vince (and vice versa), is ultimately immaterial next to the issues raised.

That's basically what I mean.

[Chick]

Accountability, transparency and legitimacy.

The way the show is set up and progresses really influences how all three issues are seen. I wonder if conspiracy theories are as strong in other sports as they are in bodybuilding. In anycase, the thing is, even if there is absolutely no truth to the rumours of conspiracies and biases etc, the way the event is set up makes it hard to believe otherwise.

Basically, there are many ways that the whole thing could be improved and whatever beef you and anyone else has with Vince (and vice versa), is ultimately immaterial next to the issues raised.

That's basically what I mean.

First, these issues are being raised by Basile, who hand picked his own judges in the only show he won...lets consider the source.

 I've never stated that there were no improvements to be made, as I have directly made many changes to the entire system over the last 5 years...

Of course there will always  be conspiracy theories out there, the sport is judged and based on opinion. Other sports which have similiar cfriteria also get their fair share, i.e.- gymnastics, ice skating, diving, etc....hell, even football/ baseball get their share of conspiricy accusations  thrown their way

[Army of One]

Bob, did you apologise to Ronnie Rockel yet?

[Chick]

Bob, did you apologise to Ronnie Rockel yet?

For what?

[Army of One]

For what?

Openly mocking him for being German and not speaking or understanding english to your standards.

[Chick]

Openly mocking him for being German and not speaking or understanding english to your standards.

Not sure what show you were watching....may want to actually watch the 2010 press conference

scram, loser

[erics]

First, these issues are being raised by Basile, who hand picked his own judges in the only show he won...lets consider the source.

 I've never stated that there were no improvements to be made, as I have directly made many changes to the entire system over the last 5 years...

Of course there will always  be conspiracy theories out there, the sport is judged and based on opinion. Other sports which have similiar cfriteria also get their fair share, i.e.- gymnastics, ice skating, diving, etc....hell, even football/ baseball get their share of conspiricy accusations  thrown their way

In that case, Vince should know first hand the negatives involved. As they say, it takes a thief to catch a thief.  

Seriously though, I highly doubt that Vince is the only person who feels these issues are important. Actually, it's a no brainer that in a subjective sport like bodybuilding, every care ought to be taken to minimise, at the very least, the appearance of bias etc.

The problem with bodybuilding that it is such an alpha-male activity and is so easily open to ridicule. I think that in order to make the sport more professional (and dare I say, even a little dignifed), ways need to be found that do not let that whole alpha-male sydnrome to get out of hand. At the moment, I personally think it is a bit out of hand. At least, that is my take on it.

For whatever it's worth.