Do adamant prolifers truly believe that a baby born into a horribly poor, crim-

[24KT]

No, but if a woman chooses not to have a baby, she should be allowed not to have it.

With this I am in agreement. Again, it comes down to the right to choose.
I believe a woman has the right to decide what occurs in her own body.

[MCWAY]

And life throws all sorts of curve balls we cannot predict. You can no more design your life than you can design where you were born. You can toil away on a great idea, spend years investing in it and seeing it to fruition only to see it destroyed in a storm.

You roll with those and adjust accordingly. That's the way it goes.

[Deicide]

You don't follow one irresponsible and wrong act with another, as abortions are in the lion's share of the cases.

Sure, the it's open to abuse, so are cigarettes and alcohol and they are abused on a far vaster scale, yet Christian groups are not up in arms about this.

[MCWAY]

Sure, the it's open to abuse, so are cigarettes and alcohol and they are abused on a far vaster scale, yet Christian groups are not up in arms about this.

Of course, they are. You haven't been paying attention, apparently.

[24KT]

And life throws all sorts of curve balls we cannot predict. You can no more design your life than you can design where you were born. You can toil away on a great idea, spend years investing in it and seeing it to fruition only to see it destroyed in a storm.

Yes, ...and you could walk out your door and get hit by a car, even if you're born into a multi-million dollar trust fund. My point is... obstacles can be overcome. however, as the greatest hockey player in the world has stated: "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take!" ~~ Wayne Gretzsky

And yes, you can design your life. If and when a curve ball comes at you, ...you deal with it, just like anything else. it's called LIFE. Deal with it!

[boonasty]

And life throws all sorts of curve balls we cannot predict. You can no more design your life than you can design where you were born. You can toil away on a great idea, spend years investing in it and seeing it to fruition only to see it destroyed in a storm.

you = always the optimist

[Deicide]

Of course, they are. You haven't been paying attention, apparently.

Apparently. No where near as vocal about their prolife stuff though...apparently.

[24KT]

you = always the optimist

 

[Deicide]

you = always the optimist

I try my best.

[boonasty]

I try my best.

good to see you around.


i find myself agreeing with jaguar frequently in this thread.  will wonders never cease

[24KT]

good to see you around.


i find myself agreeing with jaguar frequently in this thread.  will wonders never cease

Oh stop it. We've never been that far apart on views & opinions.

it's just that the few things we disagree on... boy do we ever disagree! 

[tonymctones]

Sure. What guarantee is there then for the baby than its life will be 'good'?

In the third world, millions of children are born into the most destitute circumstances, living horrific lives.

what garuntee is there for a baby who is born to millionaires? there is no garuntee in life broham

you know there is a way to prevent pregnancy these days...why dont you think about promoting that?

[tonymctones]

No, but if a woman chooses not to have a baby, she should be allowed not to have it.

well then why are you framing it in the context you are? if thats the way you feel why try to spin it in a way that the baby will be screwed regardless so lets kill it now?

I wonder if you feel the same way about a man and his rights or lack there of in regards to situations such as these?

[Deicide]

what garuntee is there for a baby who is born to millionaires? there is no garuntee in life broham

you know there is a way to prevent pregnancy these days...why dont you think about promoting that?

Sure, birth control is great stuff but most religious maniacs will just say people who aren't married and not procreating shouldn't fuck in the first place.

[George Whorewell]

Horribly simplistic argument in favor of abortion-- and one that was espoused by the racist founder of planned parenthood, Margret Sanger.

Of course, Sanger just didn't want blacks, catholics and other undesirables to have children. The economic considerations were secondary at best. The far left nut jobs who support Planned Parenthood today and consider Sanger to be some sort of hero never mention that.

Of course, it would be nice to automatically assume that all children born in shitty living conditions will have shitty lives and perpetuate the cycle of poverty, but that is an assumption that proves too much and designates a morbidly hopeless judgement on the value of human life. Not all rich kids born to good parents turn out well, not all poor kids born to drug addicted parents turn out shitty. Many on both sides of the spectrum will end up being average nobodies like you and I. The point is that children should be given a chance to carve out their own history, to succeed or fail and to prove you or myself wrong.  By your logic, we should vaporize every poor neighborhood in America and kill all of its inhabitants, because the people that live there live hopeless lives and are probably involved in criminal activity. I for one, wouldn't cry myself to sleep at night if the rest of the world took the same approach to the middle east. But of course that wont happen, because not all Muslims are terrorists and yada yada yada.

Maybe one of these kids will win the lotto. Maybe Madonna will adopt one of them. Maybe one of them will have their pinky toes cut off by a street sweeper and will successfully sue the city for 20 millon dollars. Maybe whatever the fuck. I don't think killing them is the answer because then the question itself is never asked in the first place.

[Dos Equis]

Horribly simplistic argument in favor of abortion-- and one that was espoused by the racist founder of planned parenthood, Margret Sanger.

Of course, Sanger just didn't want blacks, catholics and other undesirables to have children. The economic considerations were secondary at best. The far left nut jobs who support Planned Parenthood today and consider Sanger to be some sort of hero never mention that.

Of course, it would be nice to automatically assume that all children born in shitty living conditions will have shitty lives and perpetuate the cycle of poverty, but that is an assumption that proves too much and designates a morbidly hopeless judgement on the value of human life. Not all rich kids born to good parents turn out well, not all poor kids born to drug addicted parents turn out shitty. Many on both sides of the spectrum will end up being average nobodies like you and I. The point is that children should be given a chance to carve out their own history, to succeed or fail and to prove you or myself wrong.  By your logic, we should vaporize every poor neighborhood in America and kill all of its inhabitants, because the people that live there live hopeless lives and are probably involved in criminal activity. I for one, wouldn't cry myself to sleep at night if the rest of the world took the same approach to the middle east. But of course that wont happen, because not all Muslims are terrorists and yada yada yada.

Maybe one of these kids will win the lotto. Maybe Madonna will adopt one of them. Maybe one of them will have their pinky toes cut off by a street sweeper and will successfully sue the city for 20 millon dollars. Maybe whatever the fuck. I don't think killing them is the answer because then the question itself is never asked in the first place.

Agree.  Life can be very hard for kids born into poverty, but you never know which one will rise to greatness, or simply lead a normal life as a productive member of society. 

[tonymctones]

Sure, birth control is great stuff but most religious maniacs will just say people who aren't married and not procreating shouldn't fuck in the first place.

I see so this is less about womens rights and abortion and more about your hatred or religion since there are many many many reasons to be against abortion that dont include religion?

 

should have known

[Hereford]

OK. I get it. Most disadvantaged babies from terrible circumstances go on to become NFL players. If only I had known that.

Or NBA, don't forget that standard life-route...

[Arnold jr]

This is soooooooo not true. Sure, these things can happen but more often than not, wealth and circumstance are the primary factors in the success of individuals.

Life is all about freewill, every human being on earth is responsible for the choices they make. We are all born with an innate sense of right and wrong…yes, our influences during childhood can create obstacles that are hard to overcome but that’s where choice comes in, choosing what to do by our own freewill. And every last person has obstacles in life, adversity to face, decisions to make, the circumstances may be different for each one but in the end it all boils down to freewill
 

And life throws all sorts of curve balls we cannot predict. You can no more design your life than you can design where you were born. You can toil away on a great idea, spend years investing in it and seeing it to fruition only to see it destroyed in a storm.

My father built a company that by the time I was 9yrs old went bankrupt. We lost everything and I mean everything. Life was very hard for awhile for my family, so you’re right, sometimes things don’t pan out like you planned but at that stage my father had a choice to make, lay down and die, bitch and complain about how unfair things were and demand someone take care of him or dust himself off, bust his butt and make something happen. He chose the latter and built a successful business and has done quite well.
For the record, something I am very proud of, my father, after going bankrupt, even though legally he didn’t have to, he paid back every dime he owed to every single person…he is in no one’s debt.

[Arnold jr]

 

With this I am in agreement. Again, it comes down to the right to choose.
I believe a woman has the right to decide what occurs in her own body.

Even though this is off topic a little from the main point of the thread, I disagree because IMO it really has nothing to do with the right to what occurs to a woman’s body. I talked about freewill and choices in my last post and the woman has already made a choice by her own freewill, she had sex and unless she’s an idiot, she knows that pregnancy is a risk of sex…she made a choice and decided to gamble. Yes, I know there are extreme circumstances, rape, incest, etc. but for now I’m keeping it simple.

To me the argument is simple, is the fetus a living human being or not. If it is and you kill it, well that’s murder, if it’s not a living human being and you have an abortion, well then who cares, it wasn’t a living human being.

I believe it is a living human being and again, we come back to choice and freewill, a mother, one of her jobs and it is installed in her as deep as any instinct, is to protect her child, to care for it, to make decisions for the child when it doesn’t have the ability, this occurs all through the child’s life. When that child is in the womb and if it is a living human being, how much more does that child need its mothers protection, how much more does that child need its mother to make good decisions on its behalf when at that stage, much like after it is born, it has no ability to. The long and short, there is no way anyone can say abortion is OK and simply a woman’s choice unless they believe what’s inside them is not a living human being.

[BM OUT]

If people really wanted to be aborted you would see suicide rates at staggering amounts.You dont.No one would have prefered to be aborted,if they did,they would off themselves.

[Deicide]

If people really wanted to be aborted you would see suicide rates at staggering amounts.You dont.No one would have prefered to be aborted,if they did,they would off themselves.

Suicide rates, depending on the country, are much higher than reported.

[Deicide]

I see so this is less about womens rights and abortion and more about your hatred or religion since there are many many many reasons to be against abortion that dont include religion?

 

should have known

Monotheistic religion has been one of the greatest violators of women's rights in the history of civilisation.

[loco]

Suicide rates, depending on the country, are much higher than reported.

Suicide rates are very high in the most secular, richest countries.

[loco]

Monotheistic religion has been one of the greatest violators of women's rights in the history of civilisation.

Christianity saved Europe from the Dark Ages, and from Muslim rule.

1. Jesus Christ united the people after the fall of the Roman Empire.  Once there was no emperor, no government, no laws, the people were all just killing each other, but Christianity united them and Jesus Christ became their Emperor.

2. Monasteries and monks preserved books, history, reading, writing, and education in general when there were no schools no universities, no academies any longer.  Otherwise, Europe would have sunk even deeper into darkness and ignorance.

3. Christian kings fought and helped keep Muslim invaders out of Western Europe.  Otherwise, we would all be praying to Mecca right now.

4. The Crusades brought Europe out of the Dark Ages.  When the Crusaders came back to Europe, they brought with them medical knowledge, culture, architecture, technology, etc.