If the Founders Were Alive Today

[Arnold jr]

If the founders were alive today, what would they see, what would they think, how would they react?

There was a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in response to John Adams where Adams had shared his concern with Jefferson that the republic would fail because in time power would corrupt the governing. Jefferson agreed but he responded to Adams that although power would corrupt, the spirit of the American people was beyond reproach and that when this time came, the American people would get it right.

If Jefferson were here today, would he say now is the time when they will get it right, now is the time when the spirit of the American people will overtake corruption again as it once did at the founding of this country or would he hang his head in shame and say they're lost, it's too late?

Either way, this is I believe that time, the outcome, yet to be seen but I hope we prove Jefferson right.

[Soul Crusher]

I think Jefferson would remind us that every 20 years he felt the nation should rebel and the tree of liberty needs  . . . . .

[Arnold jr]

I think Jefferson would remind us that every 20 years he felt the nation should rebel and the tree of liberty needs  . . . . .

....."the blood of patriots and tyrants."

[Dos Equis]

I think they would be pretty disgusted with Obama and Congress. 

[Lundgren]

Id think they be like fuck who cares about fucking politics, you have horseless carriages. Birth control, and booze. And tvs.

[Arnold jr]

I think they would be pretty disgusted with Obama and Congress. 

Agreed but would they see the Republic as lost or would they see true hope in its salvation? What steps would they take in preservation, not only preservation but growth of the Republic in terms of its quality?

[Dos Equis]

Agreed but would they see the Republic as lost or would they see true hope in its salvation? What steps would they take in preservation, not only preservation but growth of the Republic in terms of its quality?

I don't think it's lost.  I don't think they would see it as lost.  They would likely be sounding the alarm about the expansion of the federal government, our reckless spending, and our enormous tax burden.  I'm not sure exactly what steps they would take, but it certainly wouldn't be moving us towards socialism, etc.    

[Deicide]

Doubtful. All empires and nations decline and ours is decline as we speak and has been since perhaps the 1990's; culturally the East is ascendant. Since the time of Columbus, the West has dominated the world but it was just a question of how and when and not if, as to when the Occident would take the final bow. The USA was the last nation of the West to hold power and it is declining. It will not be fast. The Roman Empire did not fall apart overnight and neither will the US but the decay is there and inexorably it will sink in. We will likely all be dead before it finally crumbles but there is no way we can regain our ascendancy; no nation in decline ever has. We can slow it down at best (much as some emperors, notably Diocletian did for the Roman Empire) but we cannot halt it. The era of Asia has begun. We had a good run but our best days are behind us.

[Arnold jr]

I don't think it's lost.  I don't think they would see it as lost.  They would likely be sounding the alarm about the expansion of the federal government, our reckless spending, and our enormous tax burden.  I'm not sure exactly what steps they would take, but it certainly wouldn't be moving us towards socialism, etc.    

I agree, I feel we're on a real precipice in our history...we're on the edge of a cliff and its yet to be determined if we will fall off or not.

I'd like to see some of the progressive proponents of this board respond to this thread.

[Deicide]

I agree, I feel we're on a real precipice in our history...we're on the edge of a cliff and its yet to be determined if we will fall off or not.

I'd like to see some of the progressive proponents of this board respond to this thread.

If we were to reverse it, we would be the first in the history of humanity; no empire has reassembled itself after its decline. It becomes something else.

[Arnold jr]

Doubtful. All empires and nations decline and ours is decline as we speak and has been since perhaps the 1990's; culturally the East is ascendant. Since the time of Columbus, the West has dominated the world but it was just a question of how and when and not if, as to when the Occident would take the final bow. The USA was the last nation of the West to hold power and it is declining. It will not be fast. The Roman Empire did not fall apart overnight and neither will the US but the decay is there and inexorably it will sink in. We will likely all be dead before it finally crumbles but there is no way we can regain our ascendancy; no nation in decline ever has. We can slow it down at best (much as some emperors, notably Diocletian did for the Roman Empire) but we cannot halt it. The era of Asia has begun. We had a good run but our best days are behind us.

In some ways I agree with you and even though those empires were never able to recover does not mean we are unable to...I do not see us as too far gone...not yet.

I truly believe if we look at history, our own, as well as the history of other nations attempts at what we're trying to implement now, if we look at and examine the thoughts and ideas of the founders and apply them to our lives today, the Republic will be saved and be prosperous again.

The ere of Asian dominance only occurs if we allow ourselves to fall and that's a choice that is ours...it's not inevitable.

[Fury]

Doubtful. All empires and nations decline and ours is decline as we speak and has been since perhaps the 1990's; culturally the East is ascendant. Since the time of Columbus, the West has dominated the world but it was just a question of how and when and not if, as to when the Occident would take the final bow. The USA was the last nation of the West to hold power and it is declining. It will not be fast. The Roman Empire did not fall apart overnight and neither will the US but the decay is there and inexorably it will sink in. We will likely all be dead before it finally crumbles but there is no way we can regain our ascendancy; no nation in decline ever has. We can slow it down at best (much as some emperors, notably Diocletian did for the Roman Empire) but we cannot halt it. The era of Asia has begun. We had a good run but our best days are behind us.

Yawn. You're still spouting off this anti-American shit? Which country have you run off to now as I know you couldn't hack it in Korea with those mean old Koreans picking on you.

If by East you mean India and only India then you might have a point because China has enough problems of its own coming at it down the pipe.

[Deicide]

Yawn. You're still spouting off this anti-American shit? Which country have you run off to now as I know you couldn't hack it in Korea with those mean old Koreans picking on you.

If by East you mean India and only India then you might have a point because China has enough problems of its own coming at it down the pipe.

I am not spouting anything anti-American. I am making a historical observation. I see you haven't gained in either manners or maturity.

Places like Vietnam and China, although they have their problems are stars that are rising; much like the decline of the West, it will take some time but they are there. Nothing is ever streamlined and there is nothing anti-American about what I am saying.

[Deicide]

In some ways I agree with you and even though those empires were never able to recover does not mean we are unable to...I do not see us as too far gone...not yet.

I truly believe if we look at history, our own, as well as the history of other nations attempts at what we're trying to implement now, if we look at and examine the thoughts and ideas of the founders and apply them to our lives today, the Republic will be saved and be prosperous again.

The ere of Asian dominance only occurs if we allow ourselves to fall and that's a choice that is ours...it's not inevitable.

The kind of resurrection you speak of, though not impossible, would require a MASSIVE reawakening in civic responsibility and awareness, something very doubtful in light of the fact that most people consider 'Dancing with the Stars' to be more important than what our government is doing (or what it is not doing).

[garebear]

Don't be so negative, Deicide. A nuclear war could easily prevent that from happening.

[Deicide]

Don't be so negative, Deicide. A nuclear war could easily prevent that from happening.

Decline is preferable to nuclear war though your sarcasm is not lost to me.