Author Topic: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....  (Read 8131 times)

Wiggs

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Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« on: October 20, 2010, 08:59:19 AM »
He and Shawn addresses the posing issue....Bob really made a bad decision on this...Just enforce the rules...taking away the judging of posing was a very bad decision Shawn and Lee feel the same...

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-interviews/3558-lee-haney-on-turning-pro-and-his-olympia-career-part-2.html
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Ex Coelis

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2010, 09:00:45 AM »

Option D

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2010, 09:10:50 AM »

MCWAY

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2010, 11:11:00 AM »
He and Shawn addresses the posing issue....Bob really made a bad decision on this...Just enforce the rules...taking away the judging of posing was a very bad decision Shawn and Lee feel the same...

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-interviews/3558-lee-haney-on-turning-pro-and-his-olympia-career-part-2.html

Since when did Bob Chicherillo do away with judging the posing round? Last time I checked, he has no power to do that. He just announces the rule changes.

Wiggs

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2010, 11:19:42 AM »
Since when did Bob Chicherillo do away with judging the posing round? Last time I checked, he has no power to do that. He just announces the rule changes.

As in the free posing round is no longer judged...Bob's reasoning was it was never being judged, it was just another muscularity round....Why not hold judges accountable? 

It's akin to people breaking a law and instead of enforcing it, it gets changed.

Judging the posing round the way it was meant to be judged would bring a little class back into the sport...BTW some of Kai's shit would be penalized....CLASS.
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Azure

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2010, 11:24:46 AM »
He is Total-Lee awesome...What a great guy that embodies excellence and integrity.  Thanks for posting.

He sure is right on....That go-go dancing and homoerotic garbage needs to go.  It's embarrassing.

Wiggs

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2010, 11:26:03 AM »
While Bob has addressed the issue, the answer was pathetic....
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SquatsRule

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2010, 11:29:56 AM »
There have been a few times someone would be losing the first few rounds and come back in the posing round and win the show. Ronnie won that way in 2001.
S

MB

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2010, 02:34:01 PM »
The posing round and the posedown are no longer scored.  Bob's announced that the top 15 will now be compared at the night show vs. just the top 6 this year.  That was the right move.  Essentially though, it's one giant pre-judging now.  50% scored on the first day and 50% on the second.  Can't we just get this done in one show now?  Especially at the smaller shows, there's no reason for the pre-judging + finals format.   

erics

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2010, 05:52:59 PM »
If they judged posing and presentation and made it a competitive part of the event, you would see the competitors' presentations - their routines as well their total onstage demeanour - improve dramatically.

Chick

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2010, 05:57:59 PM »
The posing round and the posedown are no longer scored.  Bob's announced that the top 15 will now be compared at the night show vs. just the top 6 this year.  That was the right move.  Essentially though, it's one giant pre-judging now.  50% scored on the first day and 50% on the second.  Can't we just get this done in one show now?  Especially at the smaller shows, there's no reason for the pre-judging + finals format.   

Thee are LOTS of reasons we do it over two days...money being one of them, time restraints another, trying to coordinate all that goes on in a single day would be near impossible...it's not a race.



 

Chick

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2010, 06:27:25 PM »
If they judged posing and presentation and made it a competitive part of the event, you would see the competitors' presentations - their routines as well their total onstage demeanour - improve dramatically.

Problem with that theory, is that it WAS part of the judging, the routines have declined over the last 10 years dramatically.  Other problem was the guy who was the best poser, never won the posing round....and other times, if the guy who was the best poser DID win the posing round, he wasnt one of the top physiques...big problem.   

With all due respect to Dorian and Ronnie, they were often bested by superior routines...Shawn, Kevin, Lee Labrada, etc...yet NONE of theose guys would win the posing round. Why? Because if they did, they would have won the show...and the judges didnt think they had the best physique in the stage that day.

Other problem is that comparing a routine of Kai to Hidetada, is like trying to compare Frank Sinatra to Fifty-cent....two totally different styles.

Want better, thought inspired routines?  Put MONEY out there for the best presentation, best routine, best classic routine, etc...  These guys are pro BB athletes, they are motivated by money...

Voice of Doom

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2010, 06:35:49 PM »
Thee are LOTS of reasons we do it over two days...money being one of them, time restraints another, trying to coordinate all that goes on in a single day would be near impossible...it's not a race.



 

What do you mean money is one of the reasons?

Chick

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2010, 06:40:47 PM »
What do you mean money is one of the reasons?

That means while being ONE singular reason, there are many others.... ::)

Mr Nobody

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2010, 06:43:31 PM »
He and Shawn addresses the posing issue....Bob really made a bad decision on this...Just enforce the rules...taking away the judging of posing was a very bad decision Shawn and Lee feel the same...

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-interviews/3558-lee-haney-on-turning-pro-and-his-olympia-career-part-2.html
A class guy he is from Spartanburg SC very "down to earth" met him a few times. One one the best before the waist sizes increased.

MB

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2010, 07:00:00 PM »
Thee are LOTS of reasons we do it over two days...money being one of them, time restraints another, trying to coordinate all that goes on in a single day would be near impossible...it's not a race.

I understand it's really done for money, but it could be coordinated in one day.  Start with the posing routines for a first look by the judges, then go right into comparisons and get down to the judging process.  I think it would be far more exciting than the current format and give more credibility to the judges.  Time is of no concern, this could all be done in 2-2.5 hours, depending on the number of competitors.  There would be an element of suspense that we don't see with the current format.  

Pollux

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2010, 07:06:11 PM »
I've been keeping up with this interview. It's pretty good.  8)

erics

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2010, 07:09:36 PM »
Quote
Problem with that theory, is that it WAS part of the judging, the routines have declined over the last 10 years dramatically.  Other problem was the guy who was the best poser, never won the posing round....and other times, if the guy who was the best poser DID win the posing round, he wasnt one of the top physiques...big problem.

Then quite frankly, the judges should just judge it as they see it. After a few odd placings, the other athletes with the better physiques but who don't display it properly will be forced to lift their game.

Quote
With all due respect to Dorian and Ronnie, they were often bested by superior routines...Shawn, Kevin, Lee Labrada, etc...yet NONE of theose guys would win the posing round. Why? Because if they did, they would have won the show...and the judges didnt think they had the best physique in the stage that day.

It's not as if those guys you mentioned had bad physiques...

I mean, if that is what the judges were doing, then surely that disqualifies them on grounds of ignoring the rules or something along those lines? I mean, directly judging a competitor's posing - and their ability to present their physique to its best advantage - and having that judgement directly affect the competitors placing - would surely send a strong signal to the competitors to improve their presentation. Surely that would improve the overall image of the sport?

Also, if you are worried about really poor physiques sneaking ahead because of excellent posing, make some kind of rule where the free posing round applies only to those who make the finals. Not only would you save time but you would also raise the 'excitement' levels as how the finalists pose would directly and dramatically affect their final placings. After all, once you've made the finals, chances are, you have a pretty good physique which isnt going to change much in one round. At that point in the judging, free posing would really up the ante.

Quote
Other problem is that comparing a routine of Kai to Hidetada, is like trying to compare Frank Sinatra to Fifty-cent....two totally different styles.

The other subjective, artistic type sports type sports seem to be able to deal with it. Why not bodybuilding?

Quote
Want better, thought inspired routines?  Put MONEY out there for the best presentation, best routine, best classic routine, etc...  These guys are pro BB athletes, they are motivated by money...

The prize money at most professional shows hasn't risen in years. Given the apparent costs involved in competing... well, I have a feeling that prize money is not the main motivation. In anycase, if you have extra money to give to the best poser, why not add that money to the overall prize money for PLACING in a contest. If posing helps to improve your placing - and thereby earn more money - then surely that is the more sensible (and sports-minded) approach?

Again, thanks for responding.

unracked

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2010, 07:12:50 PM »
He and Shawn addresses the posing issue....Bob really made a bad decision on this...Just enforce the rules...taking away the judging of posing was a very bad decision Shawn and Lee feel the same...

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/md-interviews/3558-lee-haney-on-turning-pro-and-his-olympia-career-part-2.html
Wow, Wiggs your schome skills in finding this video are impressive.

Chick

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2010, 07:30:16 PM »
Then quite frankly, the judges should just judge it as they see it. After a few odd placings, the other athletes with the better physiques but who don't display it properly will be forced to lift their game.

It's not as if those guys you mentioned had bad physiques...

I mean, if that is what the judges were doing, then surely that disqualifies them on grounds of ignoring the rules or something along those lines? I mean, directly judging a competitor's posing - and their ability to present their physique to its best advantage - and having that judgement directly affect the competitors placing - would surely send a strong signal to the competitors to improve their presentation. Surely that would improve the overall image of the sport?

I think you're missing the point here...the guys with the better routines were NOT scored as such...thats the whole argument...that a Kevin LeVrone should have beaten Ronnie Coleman based on the fact that he would have scored first in the posing round...

Also, if you are worried about really poor physiques sneaking ahead because of excellent posing, make some kind of rule where the free posing round applies only to those who make the finals. Not only would you save time but you would also raise the 'excitement' levels as how the finalists pose would directly and dramatically affect their final placings. After all, once you've made the finals, chances are, you have a pretty good physique which isnt going to change much in one round. At that point in the judging, free posing would really up the ante.

That would make it all but impossible to ever climb the ladder up the ranks...guys like Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler who were dead last in their first Olympia may get blocked out for YEARS by better natural posers

The other subjective, artistic type sports type sports seem to be able to deal with it. Why not bodybuilding?

No they dont...and they're not even close to having the diversity we do...Ice skating, Gymnastics, diving...are all someehat handcuffed as they have specic criteria they have to do, which makes them somewhat restricted in their presentations... They also share the controversy in judging decisions as we do...

The prize money at most professional shows hasn't risen in years.

Yes, it has. Most notably the Olympia which is just under a Million in total purse, almost double what it was 10 years ago

 Given the apparent costs involved in competing... well, I have a feeling that prize money is not the main motivation. In anycase, if you have extra money to give to the best poser, why not add that money to the overall prize money for PLACING in a contest. If posing helps to improve your placing - and thereby earn more money - then surely that is the more sensible (and sports-minded) approach?

Back to square one....when it CANT improve your placing for the various reasons I outlined, the motivation is gone.  Prize money means a great deal to these guys, as many of them have bonus clauses in their contracts which pay a pretty good dollar, some matching it dollar for dollar actually

Again, thanks for responding.

Anytime, brother

PJim

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2010, 07:38:01 PM »
Problem with that theory, is that it WAS part of the judging, the routines have declined over the last 10 years dramatically.  Other problem was the guy who was the best poser, never won the posing round....and other times, if the guy who was the best poser DID win the posing round, he wasnt one of the top physiques...big problem.   

With all due respect to Dorian and Ronnie, they were often bested by superior routines...Shawn, Kevin, Lee Labrada, etc...yet NONE of theose guys would win the posing round. Why? Because if they did, they would have won the show...and the judges didnt think they had the best physique in the stage that day.

Other problem is that comparing a routine of Kai to Hidetada, is like trying to compare Frank Sinatra to Fifty-cent....two totally different styles.

Want better, thought inspired routines?  Put MONEY out there for the best presentation, best routine, best classic routine, etc...  These guys are pro BB athletes, they are motivated by money...

Now come on Bob!

We all know it'd be more accurate  to sayKai's more like a Kenny Rogers, whilst Hide's a Streissand-esque poser

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2010, 07:43:11 PM »
I think some are missing the larger point Lee made. He is talking about the overall POLISH AND PRESENTATION  of the men.  It's a mess nowadays.

Listen to him talking about music selection and how when he wanted to use a song he had to get goosebumps.  That's magic that only a true professional and someone who is passionate about what they do understands.

Lee Haney and some of the others really understood that they were presenting artistry on stage with their physiques.  Now it is an embarrassment.

The physiques look terrible and the presentation magnifies that even more so.

MB

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2010, 08:03:10 PM »
I think some are missing the larger point Lee made. He is talking about the overall POLISH AND PRESENTATION  of the men.  It's a mess nowadays.

Listen to him talking about music selection and how when he wanted to use a song he had to get goosebumps.  That's magic that only a true professional and someone who is passionate about what they do understands.

Lee Haney and some of the others really understood that they were presenting artistry on stage with their physiques.  Now it is an embarrassment.

He's right about the embarrassing spectacle of guys walking back and forth onstage asking for applause.  That's just pathetic.  Nasser and Titus use to be two of the worst with that.  I'd like to see competitors use one song for their entire routine, no mix tapes.  They need to look back at these classic routines and really learn how it's suppose to be done.  Actually, I think current day female BB's are far better at putting a routine together than the men. 

Chick

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2010, 08:14:19 PM »
I think some are missing the larger point Lee made. He is talking about the overall POLISH AND PRESENTATION  of the men.  It's a mess nowadays.

Listen to him talking about music selection and how when he wanted to use a song he had to get goosebumps.  That's magic that only a true professional and someone who is passionate about what they do understands.

Lee Haney and some of the others really understood that they were presenting artistry on stage with their physiques.  Now it is an embarrassment.

The physiques look terrible and the presentation magnifies that even more so.

agreed

Chick

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Re: Excellent interview with Lee Haney....
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2010, 08:14:58 PM »
He's right about the embarrassing spectacle of guys walking back and forth onstage asking for applause.  That's just pathetic.  Nasser and Titus use to be two of the worst with that.  I'd like to see competitors use one song for their entire routine, no mix tapes.  They need to look back at these classic routines and really learn how it's suppose to be done.  Actually, I think current day female BB's are far better at putting a routine together than the men. 

and agreed