Author Topic: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken  (Read 13142 times)

Arnold jr

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Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« on: October 28, 2010, 01:50:34 PM »
Benny & Blacken...and any other lefty/socialist/progressive that wishes to take the call:

Without posting a bunch of random videos, I want you to explain in your own words, your words, why we should continue to follow the progressive model and continue to expand it. Explain to me why the Obama machine should remain in power, why the current congress should remain in power.

*Explain without videos
*Use your own words
*Use your own thoughts and ideas
*Credible references to back up your points are fine, no, what some journalist says is not credible.
*Credible references include: U.S. founding documents, books or articles written by societal accepted political and ideological thinkers...left, right, center or wherever they fall doesn't matter, as long as they're at least generally credible.
*Back up your statements with facts and where applicable, back them up with your own moral conscience.
*Do these things without bashing the other side, stand on your own two feet.

Alright, I'm waiting....


Soul Crusher

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 02:32:27 PM »
Don't hold your breath. 


Arnold jr

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2010, 02:53:29 PM »
Don't hold your breath. 



I'm not, I honestly don't think either one of them can do it and follow those guidelines. That's why I posted the thread...they'll read it, after all, its got their names in the Subject line but their silence will be yet another testament to the blind faith of sheep being led to the slaughter.

kcballer

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2010, 03:03:53 PM »
I don't think the current admin are the right ones for the job.  I would like to see a single payer health care system, a higher consumption tax, a full implementation of a cap and trade system devoid of GS or anyone else.  A trade tariff on all goods made in China or any other country that doesn't adopt a similar environmental stance, a tax increase for all companies not employing Americans and a tougher regulation of all finance companies. 

I thought i would see some of this with Obama, i have seen none of it.  So fu*k him and anyone else who doesn't dig it.  Sucka!
Abandon every hope...

Arnold jr

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 03:13:52 PM »
I don't think the current admin are the right ones for the job.  I would like to see a single payer health care system, a higher consumption tax, a full implementation of a cap and trade system devoid of GS or anyone else.  A trade tariff on all goods made in China or any other country that doesn't adopt a similar environmental stance, a tax increase for all companies not employing Americans and a tougher regulation of all finance companies. 

I thought i would see some of this with Obama, i have seen none of it.  So fu*k him and anyone else who doesn't dig it.  Sucka!

Thanks for responding with your own thoughts and words...that I can respect even though I disagree with them. Can you elaborate on why you feel we need those things, how they would benefit the U.S. how they would exist and at the same time preserve liberty?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 03:45:08 PM »
KC is not a troll and always presents his arguments, and is a good poster here, even if I disagree with him on most things. 

George Whorewell

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2010, 03:46:04 PM »
Challenging an illiterate gimmick and a certifiably retarded troll is not something that you should waste your time on. Better to arm wrestle someone in a coma, or beat up a blind midget.

Arnold jr

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2010, 05:20:33 PM »
Challenging an illiterate gimmick and a certifiably retarded troll is not something that you should waste your time on. Better to arm wrestle someone in a coma, or beat up a blind midget.

Look at it as an attempt, although perhaps futile, to better society, lol! Guys like these, as well as those like Straw and Samson almost always speak in absolutes without any foundation or original thoughts or conclusions. The challenge was simply to urge them to think for themselves instead of relying on others to do it for them.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2010, 09:05:18 PM »
bump

dario73

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2010, 07:38:42 AM »
crickets....

Soul Crusher

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2010, 07:51:49 AM »
Ha ha ha  -  At least KC makes arguments. 

Benny & Blacken =  . . . . . . 

OzmO

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 08:45:53 AM »
Thanks for responding with your own thoughts and words...that I can respect even though I disagree with them. Can you elaborate on why you feel we need those things, how they would benefit the U.S. how they would exist and at the same time preserve liberty?
I have some questions for you.

Do you think the medical care system in the US is good the way it is?

If so why?

If not what needs changing?

Kazan

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2010, 08:57:25 AM »
I have some questions for you.

Do you think the medical care system in the US is good the way it is?

If so why?

If not what needs changing?

1) No
2) Because government regulation and insurance companies have a monopoly ( See HMO act of 1973)
3) The government repeal the HMO Act and only regulate what they absolutely have to.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

MB

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2010, 09:08:35 AM »
I have some questions for you.
Do you think the medical care system in the US is good the way it is?
If so why?
If not what needs changing?

Our health care system could run much more efficiently.  I believe that we need to take insurance companies out of the equation.  No more leeching off the exchange of money between the patient and doctor.  I would set up a system where employers fund a health savings account for each employee.  Tax free contributions would be made to the account that could roll over indefinitely, but can only be used on medical expenses.  The doctors office would be run more efficiently as well.  Not as many staff would be needed and billing would be straight forward and concise. 

Arnold jr

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2010, 09:27:58 AM »
I have some questions for you.

Do you think the medical care system in the US is good the way it is?

If so why?

If not what needs changing?

It needs reform, there's no question things that need to improve, when it comes to insurance, lawsuits, etc.

Solutions:

*Open state lines. Just like any other good or service, allow commerce across state lines, this forces insurance companies to be competitive with each other.

*Give groups of private individuals the same ability to get massive discounts as is given to unions. If me and a bunch of friends want to buy a policy together in order to save money, we should be able to do that, just like unions do.

*End lawsuits, hands down this massively lowers cost.

The biggest thing IMO, allow the market of health insurance function and perform like every other aspect of industry and service in the country, do this, cost go down, more people have insurance, problem solved.

kcballer

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2010, 10:55:47 AM »
Thanks for responding with your own thoughts and words...that I can respect even though I disagree with them. Can you elaborate on why you feel we need those things, how they would benefit the U.S. how they would exist and at the same time preserve liberty?

1 - health care in a single payer system will ensure all Americans have access to insurance at an affordable rate.  The ills of being uninsured have been hashed over many, many times.  As have the ills of the old system and system currently in place.   Without life there can be no liberty.

2 - a higher consumption tax is a viable way to increase tax revenue without penalizing people with an income tax.  You keep liberty i.e. choice over what you will spend and whether you will pay this tax or not.  I.E. whether you will consume or save.

3 - cap and trade provides a framework by which companies can adjust their emissions levels to those deemed acceptable or pay for credits on an open market to offset overruns.  Alternatively businesses that run below the 'cap' can sell and have financial incentive to remain as emissions neutral as possible.  It is a viable economically sensible solution to the ongoing issue of global emissions and air quality.   Air quality and emissions standards provide a higher quality of health, thus a higher quality of life and with life comes liberty.

4 - a trade tariff means China or other countries not employing a similar cap on emissions will have a higher price of goods in America.  This makes American made goods more attractive and affordable and helps offset the costs of lowering or buying emissions credits.  It essentially stops a double tax which curbing emissions without adding a tariff would do.  Provides competitive choices for Americans to purchase foreign or American made goods. 

5 - self explanatory but ties in with above, higher priced Chinese and third world goods and services will allow American to become a more competitive manufacturer again, coupled with an incentive to keep jobs here, that incentive being not being taxed at a higher rate and/or perhaps having a lower tax for employing Americans.

6 - tougher regulation would stop the continued corruption we see daily from financial institutions.  whether it's repackaged sub-prime mortgages, predatory loans, credit cards with fine prints costs etc.   This would allow people to feel safe and understand what it is they are getting into.  It would put the onus on banks and financial institutions to be upfront and honest so people can make the best decision possible and not be screwed over by some jacked up rate or fine print legal jargon.

Abandon every hope...

Arnold jr

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2010, 12:24:06 PM »
1 - health care in a single payer system will ensure all Americans have access to insurance at an affordable rate.  The ills of being uninsured have been hashed over many, many times.  As have the ills of the old system and system currently in place.   Without life there can be no liberty.

As would true insurance reform:

*Open state lines. Just like any other good or service, allow commerce across state lines, this forces insurance companies to be competitive with each other.

*Give groups of private individuals the same ability to get massive discounts as is given to unions. If me and a bunch of friends want to buy a policy together in order to save money, we should be able to do that, just like unions do.

*End lawsuits, hands down this massively lowers cost.


That would fix the problem, as well and more importantly, it wouldn't force anyone to pay for something they don't wish to pay for and more importantly than that and most important of all, it would prevent the people from having to rely on government for their well-being.

2 - a higher consumption tax is a viable way to increase tax revenue without penalizing people with an income tax.  You keep liberty i.e. choice over what you will spend and whether you will pay this tax or not.  I.E. whether you will consume or save.
One of the beautiful things about true liberty is the freedom to be responsible with your money or not. This takes that away and more importantly, it lends to the government deciding what is to be considered "Responsible" and takes away that choice from you. Further, a consumption tax hurts business, if people buy less because they are being taxed on what they buy, fewer business can function, eventually the market for various industries becomes thinner and thinner, this reduces competition as well as jobs...all around a bad thing.

3 - cap and trade provides a framework by which companies can adjust their emissions levels to those deemed acceptable or pay for credits on an open market to offset overruns.  Alternatively businesses that run below the 'cap' can sell and have financial incentive to remain as emissions neutral as possible.  It is a viable economically sensible solution to the ongoing issue of global emissions and air quality.   Air quality and emissions standards provide a higher quality of health, thus a higher quality of life and with life comes liberty.

So I start a business, I'm given "X" amount of credits, to compete with the larger business I need more credits, yet my revenue is not high enough to allow me to buy more credits, my business is screwed.

More importantly this argument has a lot to do with global warming and that's another debate.

Last thing, the biggest thing of all, this gives government absolute control over all business and industry, the very opposite of liberty.

4 - a trade tariff means China or other countries not employing a similar cap on emissions will have a higher price of goods in America.  This makes American made goods more attractive and affordable and helps offset the costs of lowering or buying emissions credits.  It essentially stops a double tax which curbing emissions without adding a tariff would do.  Provides competitive choices for Americans to purchase foreign or American made goods. 

I guess my last response covers this one as well.

5 - self explanatory but ties in with above, higher priced Chinese and third world goods and services will allow American to become a more competitive manufacturer again, coupled with an incentive to keep jobs here, that incentive being not being taxed at a higher rate and/or perhaps having a lower tax for employing Americans.

See last 2 responses.

6 - tougher regulation would stop the continued corruption we see daily from financial institutions.  whether it's repackaged sub-prime mortgages, predatory loans, credit cards with fine prints costs etc.   This would allow people to feel safe and understand what it is they are getting into.  It would put the onus on banks and financial institutions to be upfront and honest so people can make the best decision possible and not be screwed over by some jacked up rate or fine print legal jargon.



But you're putting your trust in government, you're taking away individual responsibility, you're taking away the freedom to make your own choices. Has there ever been a government that had so much control and power over it's people, and regulation like you're speaking of is control over the people, has any government like this ever existed where the people would say, "I feel safe and protected, thank you government" has this ever happened?

Last thing, no one is saying there shouldn't be any regulation, there should be some, there needs to be a level of banking regulation for example. A set of rules to keep things honest where need be is fine, no one is against that but a set of rules that places government at the pinnacle of the market, there's no liberty in that.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2010, 12:31:04 PM »
Bump for Benny & Blacken. 

kcballer

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2010, 12:45:13 PM »
Taxes don't take away jobs.  If that were true we would not have had job growth during our highest tax years.  Consumption taxes are the fairest and best way to tax all citizens equally and help pay down the current debt we have.

Re - cap and trade.  You don't have a right to pollute.  That is not taking liberty away from someone when that company or person has no more right to pollute than you or i do.  It doesn't give government control anymore than they have already.  What it does is allow businesses to stay competitive whilst providing incentives to reduce emissions and encourages trade among cleaner businesses to not so clean businesses.  We've had the clean air act since 1990 which runs on a cap and trade like system, and it has been a major success.  Increasing the scope to encompass all business is imperative now more than ever.  I don't care if you believe in global warming, take one second to think about this - do you honestly believe pollution at current levels with an expanding population is a good thing?  Do you think clean drinking water, air, green space are important or does it only matter if it doesn't cost someone money?  In the end we all pay whether we pay now, or we pay with increasing respiratory problems, destruction of the food chain and drinking water. 

Re- regulation.  No one is taking away choices.  Where did i say you could not choose what you wanted?  What you choose will be from a framework that allows you and the lender or broker to both know and understand what you will be getting out of the transaction.  So we don't have shady deals or predatory lenders or consumers pleading they didn't understand.  To be opposed to that in the name of some concept that you should be able to screw yourself over is irresponsible and plain retarded. 
Abandon every hope...

Grape Ape

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2010, 07:41:55 PM »
Bump.

KC gave honest answers.    As 33 said, I don't agree with most stuff he says, but he pays attention, formulates a position based upon beliefs, and is a great poster.

Benny and Blacken have proven what they bring to this forum.  No original thought and transparent attacks on the extreme right.
Y

tonymctones

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2010, 10:34:12 PM »
Bump.

KC gave honest answers.    As 33 said, I don't agree with most stuff he says, but he pays attention, formulates a position based upon beliefs, and is a great poster.

Benny and Blacken have proven what they bring to this forum.  No original thought and transparent attacks on the extreme right.
...this and this is why i think that at times a sterner hand needs to be used in moderating this board... :-\

Soul Crusher

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2010, 04:54:28 AM »
Bump

Arnold jr

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2010, 04:26:35 PM »
I stand breathlessly waiting................. ...tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock........and the wait for enlightened genius continues.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2010, 06:30:19 PM »
BUMP

whork25

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Re: Open Challenge to Benny & Blacken
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2010, 04:11:42 AM »
The current administration may suck but they are still leaps and bounds better that the last one