Author Topic: Sorry, Mr. President, We Really Don’t Need 8 Million More College Graduates  (Read 5804 times)

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The stats tell the truth here....Collage degrees are almost worthless these days.

Published: Wednesday, 27 Oct 2010 | 2:42 PM ET Text Size
By: John Carney
Senior Editor, CNBC.com
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Over the summer, Barack Obama promised a college education program that would produce 8 million more college graduates by 2020. Recently uncovered data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics suggest that this is a terrible idea.


Mike Kemp | Getty Images

America is already producing too many college graduates.


Richard Vedder explains:

Over 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees (over 8,000 of them have doctoral or professional degrees), along with over 80,000 bartenders, and over 18,000 parking lot attendants. All told, some 17,000,000 Americans with college degrees are doing jobs that the BLS says require less than the skill levels associated with a bachelor’s degree.

He then produces this table showing the percentages of college grads in low-skilled jobs.

  UNDEREMPLOYMENT CHART
OCCUPATION   PERCENT WITH AT LEAST BACHELOR'S   NUMBER
Customer service representatives   21.62   482,784
Waiters and waitresses   13.40   317,759
Secretaries, except legal, medical, and executive   16.64   311,440
Executive secretaries and administrative assistants   16.64   248,131
Receptionists and information clerks   12.89   141,476
Laborers and freight, stock, and material movers, hand   5.07   118,441
Janitors and cleaners, except maids and housekeeping cleaners   5.01   107,457
Truck drivers, heavy and tractor-trailer   5.09   85,205
Bartenders   16.00   80,542
Carpenters   7.27   65,412
Food preparation workers   7.24   63,737
Amusement and recreation attendants   24.61   63,704
Landscaping and groundskeeping workers   6.77   62,414
Construction laborers   5.82   59,409
Telemarketers   15.85   54,713
Postal service mail carriers   13.95   49,452
Electrician   7.76   49,109
Hotel, motel, and resort desk clerks   16.14   37,156
Flight attendants   29.80   29,645
Parking lot attendants   13.74   18,749
Source: BLS via the Chronicle of Higher Education
It’s from this table very clear that the demand for college graduates is not keeping with the supply. Increasing the number of college graduates will only exacerbate the problem.

It’s easy to see why Obama could make the foolish assumption that increasing the number of college graduates would be economically beneficial. After all, going to college helped him tremendously. And college graduates earn more money, on average, than lesser-educated peers. So if more people went to college, more of them would earn more money, right?

This reminds me of a certain kind of thinking that you heard a lot about during the housing bubble. Back when George Bush was campaigning to increase home-ownership, he often argued for the social benefits of home-ownership. Home owners were less likely to rely on government, they stabilized neighborhoods, produced positive externalities for everyone.

Of course, the marginal returns from increasing the number of homeowners were minimal and the costs—well, we’re still living with the costs.

Vedder points to a working paper that examines the marginal returns to education.

This week an extraordinarily interesting new study was posted on the Web site of America’s most prestigious economic-research organization, the National Bureau of Economic Research. Three highly regarded economists (one of whom has won the Nobel Prize in Economic Science) have produced “Estimating Marginal Returns to Education,” Working Paper 16474 of the NBER. After very sophisticated and elaborate analysis, the authors conclude “In general, marginal and average returns to college are not the same.” (p. 28)

In other words, even if on average, an investment in higher education yields a good, say 10 percent, rate of return, it does not follow that adding to existing investments will yield that return, partly for reasons outlined above. The authors (Pedro Carneiro, James Heckman, and Edward Vytlacil) make that point explicitly, stating “Some marginal expansions of schooling produce gains that are well below average returns, in general agreement with the analysis of Charles Murray.”

College education may very well be to Obama what the home ownership was to Bush: a government induced bubble that leaves Americans buried under a mountain of debt used to buy an asset whose value just keeps dropping.

________________________ ________________________ _____

OzmO

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It's better to have a degree  than not when looking fir a job.

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The stats tell the truth here....Collage degrees are almost worthless these days.

Clearly, yours is in that category as well.  ;D

Don't worry, you're not alone. My friend David discovered the same thing at his son's school the other day.


w

24KT

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It's better to have a degree  than not when looking fir a job.

Shazaam! The Nazi spelling police strikes again!  :D
w

Dos Equis

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Clearly, yours is in that category as well.  ;D

Don't worry, you're not alone. My friend David discovered the same thing at his son's school the other day.




Yeah.  Misspelling a word proves that a college degree is almost worthless.   ::)  

Also assumes that the person who wrote the flyer has a college degree. 

sync pulse

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College educated people are held in low regard by many on the right because it was primarily college educated individuals who campaigned against the Vietnam War.

OzmO

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Shazaam! The Nazi spelling police strikes again!  :D


Arrrggg. Lol

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huh?

if we want to compete globally, we'd damn sure better increase our college atendance.


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huh?

if we want to compete globally, we'd damn sure better increase our college atendance.



Science and engineering is going to be our downfall.

Mr. Magoo

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Science and engineering is going to be our downfall.

I see you prefer to focus on english rather than math or science

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This is when I'd like to point to my reitriment thread. In ten years the average babyboomer will be 60 years of age. Were gonna have a massive retirement boom hitting in about 5 years, of course the 2008 crisis hit and knocked out millions of people retirement plans but hey it's the beauty of the free market ;D

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Graduating College is great IF you majored in something important.A liberal arts degree is a waste of time.If you leave with a degree in science or a medical degree great.If your just there to be there,its a total waste.

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College educated people are held in low regard by many on the right because it was primarily college educated individuals who campaigned against the Vietnam War.

 ::)  ::)

This issue is the cost and value. 

It makes zero sense going into 150k of debt to get a watered down liberal arts degree when you could use the same amount of money to start a business providing a service other businesses need and value. 

Wake up and get a clue. 







SAMSON123

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http://www.cnbc.com/id/39872376

The stats tell the truth here....Collage degrees are almost worthless these days.

Published: Wednesday, 27 Oct 2010 | 2:42 PM ET Text Size
By: John Carney
Senior Editor, CNBC.com
Digg
Buzz
Facebook
Twitter
More Share
Over the summer, Barack Obama promised a college education program that would produce 8 million more college graduates by 2020. Recently uncovered data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics suggest that this is a terrible idea.


Mike Kemp | Getty Images

America is already producing too many college graduates.


Richard Vedder explains:

Over 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees (over 8,000 of them have doctoral or professional degrees), along with over 80,000 bartenders, and over 18,000 parking lot attendants. All told, some 17,000,000 Americans with college degrees are doing jobs that the BLS says require less than the skill levels associated with a bachelor’s degree.

He then produces this table showing the percentages of college grads in low-skilled jobs.

  UNDEREMPLOYMENT CHART
OCCUPATION   PERCENT WITH AT LEAST BACHELOR'S   NUMBER
Customer service representatives   21.62   482,784
Waiters and waitresses   13.40   317,759
Secretaries, except legal, medical, and executive   16.64   311,440
Executive secretaries and administrative assistants   16.64   248,131
Receptionists and information clerks   12.89   141,476
Laborers and freight, stock, and material movers, hand   5.07   118,441
Janitors and cleaners, except maids and housekeeping cleaners   5.01   107,457
Truck drivers, heavy and tractor-trailer   5.09   85,205
Bartenders   16.00   80,542
Carpenters   7.27   65,412
Food preparation workers   7.24   63,737
Amusement and recreation attendants   24.61   63,704
Landscaping and groundskeeping workers   6.77   62,414
Construction laborers   5.82   59,409
Telemarketers   15.85   54,713
Postal service mail carriers   13.95   49,452
Electrician   7.76   49,109
Hotel, motel, and resort desk clerks   16.14   37,156
Flight attendants   29.80   29,645
Parking lot attendants   13.74   18,749
Source: BLS via the Chronicle of Higher Education
It’s from this table very clear that the demand for college graduates is not keeping with the supply. Increasing the number of college graduates will only exacerbate the problem.

It’s easy to see why Obama could make the foolish assumption that increasing the number of college graduates would be economically beneficial. After all, going to college helped him tremendously. And college graduates earn more money, on average, than lesser-educated peers. So if more people went to college, more of them would earn more money, right?

This reminds me of a certain kind of thinking that you heard a lot about during the housing bubble. Back when George Bush was campaigning to increase home-ownership, he often argued for the social benefits of home-ownership. Home owners were less likely to rely on government, they stabilized neighborhoods, produced positive externalities for everyone.

Of course, the marginal returns from increasing the number of homeowners were minimal and the costs—well, we’re still living with the costs.

Vedder points to a working paper that examines the marginal returns to education.

This week an extraordinarily interesting new study was posted on the Web site of America’s most prestigious economic-research organization, the National Bureau of Economic Research. Three highly regarded economists (one of whom has won the Nobel Prize in Economic Science) have produced “Estimating Marginal Returns to Education,” Working Paper 16474 of the NBER. After very sophisticated and elaborate analysis, the authors conclude “In general, marginal and average returns to college are not the same.” (p. 28)

In other words, even if on average, an investment in higher education yields a good, say 10 percent, rate of return, it does not follow that adding to existing investments will yield that return, partly for reasons outlined above. The authors (Pedro Carneiro, James Heckman, and Edward Vytlacil) make that point explicitly, stating “Some marginal expansions of schooling produce gains that are well below average returns, in general agreement with the analysis of Charles Murray.”

College education may very well be to Obama what the home ownership was to Bush: a government induced bubble that leaves Americans buried under a mountain of debt used to buy an asset whose value just keeps dropping.

________________________ ________________________ _____


Ha Ha Ha..Only in america do you have to get a degree, be 150,000 dollars in debt because of it, all for the sake of getting a low mentality third world job like being a janitor, truck driver, food preparer or bartender. How come you americans are not RIOTING EVERYWHERE is a mystery to the rest of the world
C

MB

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Graduating College is great IF you majored in something important.A liberal arts degree is a waste of time.If you leave with a degree in science or a medical degree great.If your just there to be there,its a total waste.

Agreed.  What you earn your degree in is far more important than if you have a degree.  A 13 year old kid could earn a degree in liberal arts. 

Mr. Magoo

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Graduating College is great IF you majored in something important.A liberal arts degree is a waste of time.If you leave with a degree in science or a medical degree great.If your just there to be there,its a total waste.

 ::) ::) ::)

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::) ::) ::)

Why the eye roll?  With 150k you can go to community college and get the same experience at a fraction of the cost and still have $135k to start a business and provide value to others.   

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Why the eye roll?  With 150k you can go to community college and get the same experience at a fraction of the cost and still have $135k to start a business and provide value to others.   

Can't get the same experience because no two experiences are the same

monetary cost is only a portion of what should be considered, along with personal values, which doesn't always translate directly into monetary cost/benefits. Ever heard of children?

Soul Crusher

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Can't get the same experience because no two experiences are the same

monetary cost is only a portion of what should be considered, along with personal values, which doesn't always translate directly into monetary cost/benefits. Ever heard of children?

 ::)  ::)

Yeah, that's the same crappola spewed by these rip off institutions trying to jusify 200k for a watered down degree.  But hey, you banged a few broads and drank like a fish - so everything is cool right? 

Guess what - the staggering school debt ensures a lot of these college grads will never be able to afford kids. 

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::)  ::)

Yeah, that's the same crappola spewed by these rip off institutions trying to jusify 200k for a watered down degree.  But hey, you banged a few broads and drank like a fish - so everything is cool right?  

Guess what - the staggering school debt ensures a lot of these college grads will never be able to afford kids.  

I see no response to me. You just called it "crappola".

I think it's misguided to always have a purely monetary cost/benefit outlook. If everybody did that, nobody would ever have children. Theres other things that should be considered, which differ from person to person. I may have an urge to see how many degrees I can get in my lifetime, while Person A may only want to be a fireman. I'll make more, but I can get in a car accident and Person A rescues my life from a burning vehicle.

I think its wrong to say that some degrees are better or worse than others based on monetary returns. The fireman may be happier than I am, he may save more lives than I do. Just because I may get a math or science degree while he didn't even go, doesn't make me better. Same situation with people that major in science versus a person that majors in english, etc.

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I see no response to me. You just called it "crappola".

I think it's misguided to always have a purely monetary cost/benefit outlook. If everybody did that, nobody would ever have children. Theres other things that should be considered, which differ from person to person. I may have an urge to see how many degrees I can get in my lifetime, while Person A may only want to be a fireman. I'll make more, but when I get in a car accident and Person A rescues my life from a burning vehicle.

I think its wrong to say that some degrees are better or worse than others based on monetary returns. The fireman may be more happier than I am, he may save more lives than I do. Just because I may get a math or science degree while he didn't even go, doesn't make me better. Same situation with people that major in science versus a person that majors in english, etc.


Go watch my videos from Schiff on this.