Why does God permit problems in your life?

[Butterbean]

According to Charles Stanley regarding problems in the lives of believers:

"..........Why did God allow th[e thorn in the flesh] issue to assail Paul, and why does He permit problems in your life?  

First, it is because He wants you to remain close to Him-and this is the manner by which He keeps you dependent upon His strength, wisdom, love and power.  

Second, this is how He maintains your freedom from pride and other destructive sins.

And third, this is the best way for Him to reveal His loving character to you-by sustaining you when all else fails."

[225for70]

There is no god...Hope this this helps..

[Nirvana]

there is something, science can't explain everything religion can't either

but there is something

[Mr. Magoo]

Lets see here

Response to 1. Couldn't he (God of the Bible) had made us remain close to him and dependent on him without the use of problems in my life? I don't think it gives God all powers if the argument is made that God was bound (how can God be bound?) to put evil with good

Response to 2. Couldn't he had made us where we already would have the freedom from pride and other destructive sins, without the use of problems in my life?

Response to 3. Why is that way the best way? How can you define it as the "best" way when we're talking about God. There are an infinite amount of ways, how can God be limited to only one that is the "best". The best way has "problems"? Couldn't I argue that a better way would be one without problems? Couldn't he reveal his character without the use of problems?

Food for thought.

[newmom]

I still remember this from when I started back going to service
because we were designed in the womb.

[225for70]

How do we know that a God truly does exist? How do we know what he likes? Perhaps he likes bad things, such as torture and brutality?  

[Mr. Magoo]

How do we know that a God truly does exist? How do we know what he likes? Perhaps he likes bad things, such as torture and brutality?  

traditional theism is referring to God of the Bible (God from Christianity, Judaism, and Islam)

all assume that God is All Powerful (Omnipotent) All Knowing (Omniscient) and Wholly Good (Omnibenevolent)

[LurkerNoMore]

Because is too busy not giving a shit what goes in the world, so God has to give you those problems himself.

 

[Butterbean]

Lets see here

Response to 1. Couldn't he (God of the Bible) had made us remain close to him and dependent on him without the use of problems in my life? I don't think it gives God all powers if the argument is made that God was bound (how can God be bound?) to put evil with good

Magoo, do you know the account in Genesis how God when God created, it was all "good?"  But He allowed free will and Adam and Eve's choice allowed sin to enter the world?

Not sure what you are saying w/"bound?"

Response to 2. Couldn't he had made us where we already would have the freedom from pride and other destructive sins, without the use of problems in my life?

Sure, but some say that would be living more of a robot-like existence which some people wouldn't mind but others would.   How do you think you would you feel about it? 

Response to 3. Why is that way the best way? How can you define it as the "best" way when we're talking about God. There are an infinite amount of ways, how can God be limited to only one that is the "best". The best way has "problems"? Couldn't I argue that a better way would be one without problems? Couldn't he reveal his character without the use of problems?

Food for thought.

Charles Stanley is who said it was the best way.  Maybe he is right but to me to say it is "the best way" is making assumptions so I agree w/you that it is poss. there are other ways that are "better. "

[Mr. Magoo]

1. Magoo, do you know the account in Genesis how God when God created, it was all "good?"  But He allowed free will and Adam and Eve's choice allowed sin to enter the world?

Not sure what you are saying w/"bound?"

Yea I know the genesis story, Adam and Eve, satan was a snake, tricked Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. This caused Original sin. We all have original sin, etc.

 But God, by definition of him being God (Omni predicates), knew when he created Adam and Eve that Eve would partake of the fruit. Why did God design Eve as to be easily persuaded by Satan? Why did he even put the tree of knowledge in the garden in the first place? Why give them a choice when he knew what choice they would make because he designed them to make a choice that way? If one person has free will, and dies and goes to hell, then why do we have free will? What about if a million people that have free will die and go to hell, what about a billion people, etc. At what point is the idea of free will no longer the best idea if it causes people to spend forever in hell? Why is free willing + dying and going to hell = the only option possible?

I dont understand why some would say that if evil didn't exist then we would be like robots. I feel that is putting limits on God's power. Those are not God's only two options. God has the ability to do away with evil without changing us into robots, correct? By "bound" i mean that if someone says that God either has to let free will exist (and people die and go to hell) or to do away with free will and make us all robots (which for some weird reason is "boring"), this is limiting God's power, and binding him to something that's greater than he is. My point is that God is not bound, if he is God.

[Butterbean]

Yea I know the genesis story, Adam and Eve, satan was a snake, tricked Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. This caused Original sin. We all have original sin, etc.

 But God, by definition of him being God (Omni predicates), knew when he created Adam and Eve that Eve would partake of the fruit. Why did God design Eve as to be easily persuaded by Satan? Why did he even put the tree of knowledge in the garden in the first place? Why give them a choice when he knew what choice they would make because he designed them to make a choice that way? If one person has free will, and dies and goes to hell, then why do we have free will? What about if a million people that have free will die and go to hell, what about a billion people, etc. At what point is the idea of free will no longer the best idea if it causes people to spend forever in hell? Why is free willing + dying and going to hell = the only option possible?

I dont understand why some would say that if evil didn't exist then we would be like robots. I feel that is putting limits on God's power. Those are not God's only two options. God has the ability to do away with evil without changing us into robots, correct? By "bound" i mean that if someone says that God either has to let free will exist (and people die and go to hell) or to do away with free will and make us all robots (which for some weird reason is "boring"), this is limiting God's power, and binding him to something that's greater than he is. My point is that God is not bound, if he is God.

Really good questions!  And I can't really answer specifically other than to say what I believe could be the answers.  Seems like giving us free will means he made us truly "free" to make whatever choices we are going to make. ...including the wrong ones.

And yes, I wish everyone would go to heaven and no one would go to hell (which I believe is being separated from God), but one thing I've learned (especially from this place) is that many people don't WANT to go to heaven and be there with God.  I feel like after it is too late and they discover that He is real that they will have regrets though which does make me sad.  But I think it's good you are questioning stuff...even believers question this stuff.  Please consider asking God (even if you don't think He is real) to show you that He is real!



Question for you....if you believed that hell existed (not sure if you do), what do you think it would be like?

[Mr. Magoo]

Question for you....if you believed that hell existed (not sure if you do), what do you think it would be like?

I don't know what hell would be like. I know the common perception (eternity in fire that never goes out, constaint anguish and never ending suffering) but I'm not sure how it would exist. Why create an infinite being (humans) when the possibility exists for that infinite being to suffer for all eternity. Whynot make those that don't believe finite (souls are erased after death) and reward those that believe with infinite souls (believers go to heaven and live forever with God). In the gospel of Thomas, thats not included in the Bible, I believe (and correct me if i'm wrong) that thomas....or peter....thomas i think......asked Jesus why would would an all loving God have it within his powers to condemn someone for eternity. And Jesus answered that Hell didn't really exist, that everyone in Hell will eventually get out, but don't tell anyone because then nobody will be moral. Yes this only brings up more questions even if this event really happened.

Heres another idea to think about. Let's assume that Jesus came to earth and was God's son, died on the cross, and God really exists, he is all powerful, all knowing, and wholly good. When Jesus was speaking on earth and preaching in the markets, he knew that in the year 2010 that 225for70 will post on getbig that God doesn't exist. If we could time travel and ask him what will be posted by whoever 225for70 really is, on getbig, on whatever date, and if Jesus wanted to respond, he would have to say that 225for70 will deny that God exists.


Jesus (God) knew, by definition of him being God, that 225for70 will not believe in the year 2010 on getbig. He knew that the path he was currently taking at that time would result in that consequence. Why did he still take that path? Why didn't he take another path where 225for70 will  end up believing. Such a path has to exist since he's all powerful. Why is 225for70 even given the ability (by God) to deny that God exists? If i, a stupid worthless being, can imagine a path of events existing where 225for70 will end up believing in God, God has given me the ability to think that, so it must be possible.

[Butterbean]

I don't know what hell would be like. I know the common perception (eternity in fire that never goes out, constaint anguish and never ending suffering) but I'm not sure how it would exist. Why create an infinite being (humans) when the possibility exists for that infinite being to suffer for all eternity. Whynot make those that don't believe finite (souls are erased after death) and reward those that believe with infinite souls (believers go to heaven and live forever with God). In the gospel of Thomas, thats not included in the Bible, I believe (and correct me if i'm wrong) that thomas....or peter....thomas i think......asked Jesus why would would an all loving God have it within his powers to condemn someone for eternity. And Jesus answered that Hell didn't really exist, that everyone in Hell will eventually get out, but don't tell anyone because then nobody will be moral. Yes this only brings up more questions even if this event really happened.

No, the gospel of Thomas is not included in the Bible...not sure if it's in the Roman Catholic Bible or not...

I posted an article from a Preacher (?) who did not believe that unbelievers suffered in hell for true eternity...I will look for it and link you.


Do you think that people that purposely reject Christ in their lifetime should be given another chance to accept Him after death? 

Heres another idea to think about. Let's assume that Jesus came to earth and was God's son, died on the cross, and God really exists, he is all powerful, all knowing, and wholly good. When Jesus was speaking on earth and preaching in the markets, he knew that in the year 2010 that 225for70 will post on getbig that God doesn't exist. If we could time travel and ask him what will be posted by whoever 225for70 really is, on getbig, on whatever date, and if Jesus wanted to respond, he would have to say that 225for70 will deny that God exists.


Jesus (God) knew, by definition of him being God, that 225for70 will not believe in the year 2010 on getbig. He knew that the path he was currently taking at that time would result in that consequence. Why did he still take that path? Why didn't he take another path where 225for70 will  end up believing. Such a path has to exist since he's all powerful. Why is 225for70 even given the ability (by God) to deny that God exists? If i, a stupid worthless being, can imagine a path of events existing where 225for70 will end up believing in God, God has given me the ability to think that, so it must be possible.

Wait, are you saying regarding "the path" is that Jesus died on the cross for 225's sins?  Or are you saying 225 is on the path of disbelief because he rejects that Christ died for him?  Sorry I'm confused. ...are you saying that Jesus should have done something else specifically for 225 that he doesn't do for others?  I know Toxy said he'd believe if he came into his kitchen and Jesus was there fixing him dinner or something like that. 

And I don't think any of us (not even 225) can predict w/certainty that he will never become a believer in his lifetime.

[Mr. Magoo]

No, the gospel of Thomas is not included in the Bible...not sure if it's in the Roman Catholic Bible or not...

I posted an article from a Preacher (?) who did not believe that unbelievers suffered in hell for true eternity...I will look for it and link you.


Do you think that people that purposely reject Christ in their lifetime should be given another chance to accept Him after death? .

I'll respond to these separate. I know the book of Thomas isn't in the Bible. It wasn't chosen to be included. I was only questioning who was it, Peter or Thomas, that asked Jesus that in the book of Thomas about Hell.

I don't know about the 2nd point. Another chance to accept him after death. The concept of "choosing" and being "free" to choose, is very puzzling (I could go on more about this if you want). Even the idea that the concept of "choosing" is allowed by God to be puzzling is in itself very puzzling. Why are people even given the option to reject Christ, when it exists a way that nobody would reject Christ. I'm saying that God has the power to do something where no one would go to hell, if he is truly God.

[Mr. Magoo]

Wait, are you saying regarding "the path" is that Jesus died on the cross for 225's sins?  Or are you saying 225 is on the path of disbelief because he rejects that Christ died for him?  Sorry I'm confused. ...are you saying that Jesus should have done something else specifically for 225 that he doesn't do for others?  I know Toxy said he'd believe if he came into his kitchen and Jesus was there fixing him dinner or something like that. 

And I don't think any of us (not even 225) can predict w/certainty that he will never become a believer in his lifetime.

I was referring to the path of Jesus's life. God sent Jesus to earth to preach to the world that whosoever believe in him can be saved. Let me rephrase and give an example to try to clear my point. As Jesus was speaking John 3:16, lets say that it is possible for me and you to go back in time and be there. After he said "whosoever believeth in him (Jesus) shalt have everlasting life", if we stopped him and said "Theres a guy on getbig in the year 2010 named 225for70, will he believe in you?". Jesus, if he wanted to answer, would have to say "No, he will not believe in me, he will type a post on getbig forum on whatever day in 2010 saying that I don't exist." Then my point, the puzzle that arises is, Why didn't God or Jesus do it differently where 225for70 will end up believing? The path that Jesus was on during the time he was here on earth, it follows from that path that 225for70 will NOT believe in God, because that is exactly what happened. I'm saying, is that why didn't God go along a different path, why did Jesus do everything exactly like he did knowing that 225for70 will NOT be saved? Assuming that free will exists and assuming God is all knowing and all powerful. God had the capability to create and shape the world differently where 225for70 will believe, but God didn't choose that path. Why not?

And yes, me and you can't predict whether 225for70 will believe in God before he dies, but lets assume he doesn't. I think its a safe assumption since so many people before/after 225for70 will not believe. Insert whatever non-saved person's name there.

[Deicide]

I was referring to the path of Jesus's life. God sent Jesus to earth to preach to the world that whosoever believe in him can be saved. Let me rephrase and give an example to try to clear my point. As Jesus was speaking John 3:16, lets say that it is possible for me and you to go back in time and be there. After he said "whosoever believeth in him (Jesus) shalt have everlasting life", if we stopped him and said "Theres a guy on getbig in the year 2010 named 225for70, will he believe in you?". Jesus, if he wanted to answer, would have to say "No, he will not believe in me, he will type a post on getbig forum on whatever day in 2010 saying that I don't exist." Then my point, the puzzle that arises is, Why didn't God or Jesus do it differently where 225for70 will end up believing? The path that Jesus was on during the time he was here on earth, it follows from that path that 225for70 will NOT believe in God, because that is exactly what happened. I'm saying, is that why didn't God go along a different path, why did Jesus do everything exactly like he did knowing that 225for70 will NOT be saved? Assuming that free will exists and assuming God is all knowing and all powerful. God had the capability to create and shape the world differently where 225for70 will believe, but God didn't choose that path. Why not?

And yes, me and you can't predict whether 225for70 will believe in God before he dies, but lets assume he doesn't. I think its a safe assumption since so many people before/after 225for70 will not believe. Insert whatever non-saved person's name there.

Occam's Razor makes it simple: the clearest and best explanation for the age old 'problem of suffering' is that there is no god or divine being. An indifferent universe which favours neither good nor ill is one in which much suffering can take place all without a specific reason as to why.

[Mr. Magoo]

Occam's Razor makes it simple: the clearest and best explanation for the age old 'problem of suffering' is that there is no god or divine being. An indifferent universe which favours neither good nor ill is one in which much suffering can take place all without a specific reason as to why.

I don't think your conclusion is the right one. I am only talking about the common understanding of a theistic God (The God of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity). An argument can still be made for God or Gods. An argument can still be made for the traditional monotheistic God (because maybe its our understanding that is wrong). There are still several different ways to discuss this without automatically giving up the idea of any divine being.

 Some might say that religion, by definition, is illogical. Because we shouldn't use logic to measure faith.

[Deicide]

I don't think your conclusion is the right one. I am only talking about the common understanding of a theistic God (The God of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity). An argument can still be made for God or Gods. An argument can still be made for the traditional monotheistic God (because maybe its our understanding that is wrong). There are still several different ways to discuss this without automatically giving up the idea of any divine being.

 Some might say that religion, by definition, is illogical. Because we shouldn't use logic to measure faith.

The problem is, once you assume a priori (as in this thread) that the biblical god is real and genuine you are left to a never ending conundrum of endless questions without answers. You just end up with a million different Jobs. If the biblical god were real you still wouldn't be able to answer the question of suffering. People have been trying to answer it (theistically) for centuries. It leads no where. It's just an endless circle.

[Dos Equis]

The problem is, once you assume a priori (as in this thread) that the biblical god is real and genuine you are left to a never ending conundrum of endless questions without answers. You just end up with a million different Jobs. If the biblical god were real you still wouldn't be able to answer the question of suffering. People have been trying to answer it (theistically) for centuries. It leads no where. It's just an endless circle.

I disagree.  There will always be unanswered questions in life.  It really comes down to what a person chooses to focus on.  There are a lot of "God" questions I'd like to have answered, but I don't spend a lot of time fretting over them, because I have no control over when those questions get answered.  I tend to focus on things that I know, rather than get frustrated with questions I cannot answer.  

[Deicide]

I disagree.  There will always be unanswered questions in life.  It really comes to down to what a person chooses to focus on.  There are a lot of "God" questions I'd like to have answered, but I don't spend a lot of time fretting over them, because I have no control over when those questions get answered.  I tend to focus on things that I know, rather than get frustrated with questions I cannot answer.   

Not every Christian is like that.

[Dos Equis]

Not every Christian is like that.

True.  But I know plenty who are.  Be careful about using the broad brush.  I do it sometimes. 

[225for70]

Butterball i have news to report . I haven't sinned once since my last confession. My last confession was the day before i was confirmed. ever since i gave up god, and religion i have been able to live a sin free life...

[Deicide]

Butterball i have news to report . I haven't sinned once since my last confession. My last confession was the day before i was confirmed. ever since i gave up god, and religion i have been able to live a sin free life...

According to Christianity, we are all sinners...

[225for70]

According to Christianity, we are all sinners...

I'm atheist, and i'm not a sinner.

All people are good to me until proven otherwise..

[Deicide]

I'm atheist, and i'm not a sinner.

All people are good to me until proven otherwise..

You're still a sinner in Jesus' eyes.