Ronnie Coleman looked sick in Finland 98'

[JP_RC]

No you're doing it for Ronnie yet not for Dorian . you're dismissing his extra weight in 95 as all in his gut where was it all? all over Dorian was 257lbs in 1996 did he look exactly the same as he did in 1993? NO why? the was exactly same weight so every muscle must be the same size everywhere not how it works


lets say it's not as good as 93 in 95 still better than Ronnie , so it doesn't matter. and one bicep shorter than the other doesn't ruin his entire balance & proportion either that's really reaching

the debate always was Dorian at his best many feel that is his best stop using the stage as an excuse. you can show me any pics of Ronnie precontest and Dorian still has em in you guessed it all the same criteria , Ronnie's conditioning , balance all go to shit the heavier he becomes

Wayne Demilla " I've said to Ronnie , " What you've got to realize is that in 98-99 you were probably in the best proportion you could be for your frame . Those muscles have gotten bigger. Just cos you're bigger , doesn't make you better . "

No sense going over this? you don't even know what you're going over , you're claiming Ronnie is close on dryness and density and Dorian wins on hardness it's the same thing , you honestly can't comment on whose better conditioned when you don't know what it is.

Why would Dorian be fuller? more muscle and less fat = density , Dorian's conditioning is better anyone who knows what it is wont honestly argue to the contrary

In terms of shape Flex kills him


Better detail where? in his biceps? sure more separated in his whole arms?   and shoulders?   you just keep taking broad brush strokes where is the better detail besides the biceps? Dorian has striated triceps , pecs , intercostals , obliques , glutes , Dorian has striated traps I never seen those from Ronnie , and guess who has the better & more detailed x-mass tree? you keep making just gross over-statements , Dorian's advantage in muscularity and all aspects of it are evident in ANY pose and considering all rounds are physique rounds ALL of the criteria which leads me back to my same old point , Ronnie may meet part(s) of criteria better than Dorian he doesn't meet ALL of it better than Dorian

this is your source for 94 and 95 as you claimed? even if he did say it it's still truth

Where did I say it was more valid? please post that and my opinion is right in line with his , Dorian kills him om conditioning and balance , and you're right I'm assuming he didn't put much thought into it , he never gave a definitive answer it's safe to assume , he said multiple times it was a very hard question to answer .

besides not knowing how conditioning is you're now proving you don't know how contests are judged , judges have a lot of time to judge contests , prejudging can sometimes take 3 hours in some cases they split the contest into two days , and judges , judge what's in front of them not one guy from 1993 and one from 2001 the nature of that alone isn't something one can answer on a whim

did you miss the part where he said I guess I don't know? I guess.. obviously it means he not basing it on knowing or putting much thought into it , maybe it would be close , maybe it wouldn't it's all speculation in the end , what he do know is statistically the odd favor Dorian , the guy never placed below second in a pro show and beat Ronnie 8 times.

I used that as what? proof? NO sorry in fact I said just because Ronnie said it doesn't make it so , but those quotes from Ronnie end anything Hulkster could type and it utterly killed him to hear Ronnie consistently say he wouldn't beat him

And NO you can't do the same with Dorian because one he said he didn't know , and Ronnie said he did know , BIG difference there.

so keep trying to read more into that Yates quote than whats there in the end he said ' I don't know ' Ronnie on the other hand seems to know

Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90.  interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.

Jim:  What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?


Ronnie:  Dorian would have won again.


Jim: You think so?


Ronnie:  I know so.  Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block.  He's a big guy and has a lot going for him.

notice he mentions Dorian has a big physique ( muscular bulk ) and he's hard ( density ) and a big guy with a lot going for him  

No you're doing it for Ronnie yet not for Dorian . you're dismissing his extra weight in 95 as all in his gut where was it all? all over Dorian was 257lbs in 1996 did he look exactly the same as he did in 1993? NO why? the was exactly same weight so every muscle must be the same size everywhere not how it works


lets say it's not as good as 93 in 95 still better than Ronnie , so it doesn't matter. and one bicep shorter than the other doesn't ruin his entire balance & proportion either that's really reaching

I never said Dorian balance & proportion isn't better than Ronnie's in 95 either. All I said was since it was negatively affected a little with the whole arms thing, his advantage on this aspect wouldn't be as far as 93 compared to Ronnie. This since you like to use 95 as Dorian's best because he was heavier and harder.

Wouldn't you agree 93 was his best? I think it was.

the debate always was Dorian at his best many feel that is his best stop using the stage as an excuse. you can show me any pics of Ronnie precontest and Dorian still has em in you guessed it all the same criteria , Ronnie's conditioning , balance all go to shit the heavier he becomes

Wayne Demilla " I've said to Ronnie , " What you've got to realize is that in 98-99 you were probably in the best proportion you could be for your frame . Those muscles have gotten bigger. Just cos you're bigger , doesn't make you better . "

I won't disagree with you here, but I was going with Dorian's contest presentations.

No sense going over this? you don't even know what you're going over , you're claiming Ronnie is close on dryness and density and Dorian wins on hardness it's the same thing , you honestly can't comment on whose better conditioned when you don't know what it is.

Why would Dorian be fuller? more muscle and less fat = density , Dorian's conditioning is better anyone who knows what it is wont honestly argue to the contrary

I never claimed Ronnie is close on density, only dryness. Do you even read what I post?
I'm not arguing Dorian's conditioning isn't better. Again do you read what I post?

What I was saying is Ronnie is the only one that matched him on dryness (anyone that mattered anyway, please don't say munzer) and that Dorian's advantage on conditioning wouldn't be as crushing as with his top 90s competition.

Better detail where? in his biceps? sure more separated in his whole arms?   and shoulders?   you just keep taking broad brush strokes where is the better detail besides the biceps? Dorian has striated triceps , pecs , intercostals , obliques , glutes , Dorian has striated traps I never seen those from Ronnie , and guess who has the better & more detailed x-mass tree? you keep making just gross over-statements , Dorian's advantage in muscularity and all aspects of it are evident in ANY pose and considering all rounds are physique rounds ALL of the criteria which leads me back to my same old point , Ronnie may meet part(s) of criteria better than Dorian he doesn't meet ALL of it better than Dorian

Please stop posting the bolded part as I already know this. I'm not claiming Ronnie beats Dorian because he has better muscularity, all I'm saying is Ronnie has an advantage on muscularity and this is another aspect that would make the contest even closer than you think. In case you haven't noticed I'm not arguing Ronnie beats Dorian anymore, I'm saying it would be close since you like to think it would be an easy victory for Dorian.

As far as who has better detail, separation and tie-ins, I see Ronnie with an advantage here and you see Dorian. We can both post pics to show them with an advantage here, but it wouldn't matter too much since they wouldn't be standing next to each other.
What you can do is look at your pic from the 96 grand prix, the one were both are doing the most muscular. Post it again if you like and see who shows the better detail and separation on most bodyparts, its Ronnie. And this is Ronnie with awful conditioning, now factor him with his 98 conditioning and he would show even better detail and separation.
I don't know why you argue this? Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation aside from his abs and intercostals, obliques.

Where did I say it was more valid? please post that and my opinion is right in line with his , Dorian kills him om conditioning and balance , and you're right I'm assuming he didn't put much thought into it , he never gave a definitive answer it's safe to assume , he said multiple times it was a very hard question to answer .

besides not knowing how conditioning is you're now proving you don't know how contests are judged , judges have a lot of time to judge contests , prejudging can sometimes take 3 hours in some cases they split the contest into two days , and judges , judge what's in front of them not one guy from 1993 and one from 2001 the nature of that alone isn't something one can answer on a whim

did you miss the part where he said I guess I don't know? I guess.. obviously it means he not basing it on knowing or putting much thought into it , maybe it would be close , maybe it wouldn't it's all speculation in the end , what he do know is statistically the odd favor Dorian , the guy never placed below second in a pro show and beat Ronnie 8 times.

I used that as what? proof? NO sorry in fact I said just because Ronnie said it doesn't make it so , but those quotes from Ronnie end anything Hulkster could type and it utterly killed him to hear Ronnie consistently say he wouldn't beat him

And NO you can't do the same with Dorian because one he said he didn't know , and Ronnie said he did know , BIG difference there.

so keep trying to read more into that Yates quote than whats there in the end he said ' I don't know ' Ronnie on the other hand seems to know

Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90.  interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.

Jim:  What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?


Ronnie:  Dorian would have won again.


Jim: You think so?


Ronnie:  I know so.  Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block.  He's a big guy and has a lot going for him.

notice he mentions Dorian has a big physique ( muscular bulk ) and he's hard ( density ) and a big guy with a lot going for him  

The fact is even if you try to rationalize what Dorian meant or if you say he didn't think it through enough or anything else you bring up, a qualified IFBB judge said it would be a close contest. And he said this while obviously knowing he (Dorian) had the better conditioning and better balance & proportion.

This is the same person that said his victories in the 90s weren't even close without thinking too much either (not that is isn't true). Yet he can't say who would win between him and Ronnie = tough contest to judge = close contest.

Even if ultimately he or any judge would decide Dorian wins, it would still be close, not like you like to say Dorian wins easily.

[JP_RC]

Please reread
if we use that logic then we can say Ronnie is lucky Dorian injured himself because if he didn't Ronnie wouldn't have ever won

because if he didn't I'm not sure if you completely read what I typed.

I understood what you posted so I don't need to read it again. His injury in 97 was his tricep correct? Even if he hadn't injured it, his physique was already in the downfall you know it. Both of his arms were shrinking (look at his FDB from 97 and compare it to 93), even the non injured one. His gut was increasing in size and his waist was wider. His conditioning wasn't as good as before.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I never said Dorian balance & proportion isn't better than Ronnie's in 95 either. All I said was since it was negatively affected a little with the whole arms thing, his advantage on this aspect wouldn't be as far as 93 compared to Ronnie. This since you like to use 95 as Dorian's best because he was heavier and harder.

Wouldn't you agree 93 was his best? I think it was.

I won't disagree with you here, but I was going with Dorian's contest presentations.

I never claimed Ronnie is close on density, only dryness. Do you even read what I post?
I'm not arguing Dorian's conditioning isn't better. Again do you read what I post?

What I was saying is Ronnie is the only one that matched him on dryness (anyone that mattered anyway, please don't say munzer) and that Dorian's advantage on conditioning wouldn't be as crushing as with his top 90s competition.

Please stop posting the bolded part as I already know this. I'm not claiming Ronnie beats Dorian because he has better muscularity, all I'm saying is Ronnie has an advantage on muscularity and this is another aspect that would make the contest even closer than you think. In case you haven't noticed I'm not arguing Ronnie beats Dorian anymore, I'm saying it would be close since you like to think it would be an easy victory for Dorian.

As far as who has better detail, separation and tie-ins, I see Ronnie with an advantage here and you see Dorian. We can both post pics to show them with an advantage here, but it wouldn't matter too much since they wouldn't be standing next to each other.
What you can do is look at your pic from the 96 grand prix, the one were both are doing the most muscular. Post it again if you like and see who shows the better detail and separation on most bodyparts, its Ronnie. And this is Ronnie with awful conditioning, now factor him with his 98 conditioning and he would show even better detail and separation.
I don't know why you argue this? Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation aside from his abs and intercostals, obliques.

The fact is even if you try to rationalize what Dorian meant or if you say he didn't think it through enough or anything else you bring up, a qualified IFBB judge said it would be a close contest. And he said this while obviously knowing he (Dorian) had the better conditioning and better balance & proportion.

This is the same person that said his victories in the 90s weren't even close without thinking too much either (not that is isn't true). Yet he can't say who would win between him and Ronnie = tough contest to judge = close contest.

Even if ultimately he or any judge would decide Dorian wins, it would still be close, not like you like to say Dorian wins easily.

I never said Dorian balance & proportion isn't better than Ronnie's in 95 either. All I said was since it was negatively affected a little with the whole arms thing, his advantage on this aspect wouldn't be as far as 93 compared to Ronnie. This since you like to use 95 as Dorian's best because he was heavier and harder.


Wouldn't you agree 93 was his best? I think it was.

you keep trying to make it close when it reality it's not. and having one bicep shorter than the other does not negate the rest of it , Ronnie suddenly doesn't come closer to Dorian in this area because of his torn bicep , I like to use 1993 pre-contest which many agree is his best but used 1995 for reference

I won't disagree with you here, but I was going with Dorian's contest presentations.

You couldn't disagree if you wanted too. the debate was always who at their best and I still feel Dorian 1993/1995 would beat Ronnie but I do think precontest B&W is his best , if there were more of Dorian precontest 1995 at 283lbs I might have changed my mind but I only see the one pics

I never claimed Ronnie is close on density, only dryness. Do you even read what I post?
I'm not arguing Dorian's conditioning isn't better. Again do you read what I post?

What I was saying is Ronnie is the only one that matched him on dryness (anyone that mattered anyway, please don't say munzer) and that Dorian's advantage on conditioning wouldn't be as crushing as with his top 90s competition.

What does nailing only twice have to do with it? He nailed it didn't he?
Yes I have admitted Dorian had better conditioning at his best, but its not like Ronnie had bad conditioning. He matches Dorian in dryness and hardness, Dorian's advantage is the density and let's say fullness.

your quote ^^^ and yes I read what you posted. you never claimed he was close on density? he matches Dorian in dryness and hardness hardness is DENSITY and not only are you saying now Dorian is better conditioned which contradicts your claim of Ronnie ' matching ' him but denying you ever claimed it

Ronnie according to Dorian and Peter McGough didn't match him in dryness or density , it's not close and you're desperately trying to make it so.

Please stop posting the bolded part as I already know this. I'm not claiming Ronnie beats Dorian because he has better muscularity, all I'm saying is Ronnie has an advantage on muscularity and this is another aspect that would make the contest even closer than you think. In case you haven't noticed I'm not arguing Ronnie beats Dorian anymore, I'm saying it would be close since you like to think it would be an easy victory for Dorian.

1998 vs Dorian easy , win for Dorian no questions asked no if ands or buts about it. 2001 maybe gets closer to Dorian 1993/1995 this may be the closest he gets although he's similar in size and conditioning than 1998 but people absolutely rave about 2001 so it warrants tougher competition , I think it's like Dorian 1993 and 1995 similar but people just rave about the latter

As far as who has better detail, separation and tie-ins, I see Ronnie with an advantage here and you see Dorian. We can both post pics to show them with an advantage here, but it wouldn't matter too much since they wouldn't be standing next to each other.
What you can do is look at your pic from the 96 grand prix, the one were both are doing the most muscular. Post it again if you like and see who shows the better detail and separation on most bodyparts, its Ronnie. And this is Ronnie with awful conditioning, now factor him with his 98 conditioning and he would show even better detail and separation.
I don't know why you argue this? Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation aside from his abs and intercostals, obliques.

Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation? in what pics & videos?

Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002

Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).


Dorian Yates interview bodybuilding.com 2008
Everyone who sees my physique in person always comments on how much better I look in person than in pictures.

While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.

On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.



Bob Chick GetBig 10 - 05 - 2007

THis is why pictures will never replace actually being there, in person and close to the stage....



Mr Gethin ( contest photographer ) GetBig Steptember 10 , 2007

Beat Ronnie fare and square on the european tour...Huh? Were you there? Did you know anyone who was there, or are you speculating via pics? I'm a contest photog and can tell you that pics dont always give a true depiction.



Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates

" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.


MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia


" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .

Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.


" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own.  Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.


Bob Chick GetBig Jan 15 , 2007

The judges made their decision based on what they saw live and in person. Pictures mean nothing as they can be deceiving...


you have to bear this in mind when you type things like that.

The fact is even if you try to rationalize what Dorian meant or if you say he didn't think it through enough or anything else you bring up, a qualified IFBB judge said it would be a close contest. And he said this while obviously knowing he (Dorian) had the better conditioning and better balance & proportion.

again he said a lot of things in the end he said ' I don't know ' you're not satisfied with that answer

This is the same person that said his victories in the 90s weren't even close without thinking too much either (not that is isn't true). Yet he can't say who would win between him and Ronnie = tough contest to judge = close contest.

Even if ultimately he or any judge would decide Dorian wins, it would still be close, not like you like to say Dorian wins easily.

Again where are you getting this info? where did he say his victories in the 90s weren't close? maybe it would be close who knows? maybe it would either way Dorian wins , you want it to be close I'll hand you that on a silver platter , it's close Dorian still wins a ' close ' contest even though he crushes him on density , dryness , balance , proportion , and posing but it's a close 

[NarcissisticDeity]

I understood what you posted so I don't need to read it again. His injury in 97 was his tricep correct? Even if he hadn't injured it, his physique was already in the downfall you know it. Both of his arms were shrinking (look at his FDB from 97 and compare it to 93), even the non injured one. His gut was increasing in size and his waist was wider. His conditioning wasn't as good as before.

His conditioning in 1997 at 270lbs is great , maybe not 100% but pretty close anyway , I'm saying using that logic if Dorian NEVER became injured in 1994 or 1997 , he never tore ANY muscles then we can say Ronnie would have never won his Olympias

[Royal Lion]

Dorian's conditioning in 1997 was phenomenal.  Not his best ever, but great nonetheless.  

[NarcissisticDeity]

Dorian's conditioning in 1997 was phenomenal.  Not his best ever, but great nonetheless.  

absolutely

[johnny1]

Dorian's conditioning in 1997 was phenomenal.  Not his best ever, but great nonetheless.  

Yeah it was @ 270lbs his Conditioning was Very good and it needed to be because if Yates conditioning was OFF.... IMO he would of Lost the 1997 MR O, His Conditioning was his Advantage he had over Genetically Superior BBers like Flex etc

[Royal Lion]

Yeah it was @ 270lbs his Conditioning was Very good and it needed to be because if Yates conditioning was OFF.... IMO he would of Lost the 1997 MR O, His Conditioning was his Advantage he had over Genetically Superior BBers like Flex etc

I agree -- Dorian didn't have the small joints, tie-ins, or muscle separation of Flex, Ronnie, etc.  He did, however, have an advantage in thickness, conditioning, and density.  Also, his presentation was always top notch  Fortunately for Dorian fans, he always seemed to come in dialed compared to everyone esle.  Perhaps it was the whiskey he drank the night before 

[JP_RC]

you keep trying to make it close when it reality it's not. and having one bicep shorter than the other does not negate the rest of it , Ronnie suddenly doesn't come closer to Dorian in this area because of his torn bicep , I like to use 1993 pre-contest which many agree is his best but used 1995 for reference

You couldn't disagree if you wanted too. the debate was always who at their best and I still feel Dorian 1993/1995 would beat Ronnie but I do think precontest B&W is his best , if there were more of Dorian precontest 1995 at 283lbs I might have changed my mind but I only see the one pics

What does nailing only twice have to do with it? He nailed it didn't he?
Yes I have admitted Dorian had better conditioning at his best, but its not like Ronnie had bad conditioning. He matches Dorian in dryness and hardness, Dorian's advantage is the density and let's say fullness.

your quote ^^^ and yes I read what you posted. you never claimed he was close on density? he matches Dorian in dryness and hardness hardness is DENSITY and not only are you saying now Dorian is better conditioned which contradicts your claim of Ronnie ' matching ' him but denying you ever claimed it

Ronnie according to Dorian and Peter McGough didn't match him in dryness or density , it's not close and you're desperately trying to make it so.


1998 vs Dorian easy , win for Dorian no questions asked no if ands or buts about it. 2001 maybe gets closer to Dorian 1993/1995 this may be the closest he gets although he's similar in size and conditioning than 1998 but people absolutely rave about 2001 so it warrants tougher competition , I think it's like Dorian 1993 and 1995 similar but people just rave about the latter


Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation? in what pics & videos?

Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002

Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example).


Dorian Yates interview bodybuilding.com 2008
Everyone who sees my physique in person always comments on how much better I look in person than in pictures.

While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.

On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.



Bob Chick GetBig 10 - 05 - 2007

THis is why pictures will never replace actually being there, in person and close to the stage....



Mr Gethin ( contest photographer ) GetBig Steptember 10 , 2007

Beat Ronnie fare and square on the european tour...Huh? Were you there? Did you know anyone who was there, or are you speculating via pics? I'm a contest photog and can tell you that pics dont always give a true depiction.



Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates

" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.


MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia


" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .

Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.


" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own.  Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.


Bob Chick GetBig Jan 15 , 2007

The judges made their decision based on what they saw live and in person. Pictures mean nothing as they can be deceiving...


you have to bear this in mind when you type things like that.


again he said a lot of things in the end he said ' I don't know ' you're not satisfied with that answer

Again where are you getting this info? where did he say his victories in the 90s weren't close? maybe it would be close who knows? maybe it would either way Dorian wins , you want it to be close I'll hand you that on a silver platter , it's close Dorian still wins a ' close ' contest even though he crushes him on density , dryness , balance , proportion , and posing but it's a close 

you keep trying to make it close when it reality it's not. and having one bicep shorter than the other does not negate the rest of it , Ronnie suddenly doesn't come closer to Dorian in this area because of his torn bicep , I like to use 1993 pre-contest which many agree is his best but used 1995 for reference

You couldn't disagree if you wanted too. the debate was always who at their best and I still feel Dorian 1993/1995 would beat Ronnie but I do think precontest B&W is his best , if there were more of Dorian precontest 1995 at 283lbs I might have changed my mind but I only see the one pics

Those b&w shots of Dorian in 93 would beat any bodybuilder in my opinion too.

I think 1993/1995 Dorian vs a 98/01 Ronnie would be close. We can agree to disagree.

I think his whole arms looked a bit small for his torso in some poses in 95, not just one bicep shorter.

What does nailing only twice have to do with it? He nailed it didn't he?
Yes I have admitted Dorian had better conditioning at his best, but its not like Ronnie had bad conditioning. He matches Dorian in dryness and hardness, Dorian's advantage is the density and let's say fullness.

your quote ^^^ and yes I read what you posted. you never claimed he was close on density? he matches Dorian in dryness and hardness hardness is DENSITY and not only are you saying now Dorian is better conditioned which contradicts your claim of Ronnie ' matching ' him but denying you ever claimed it

Ronnie according to Dorian and Peter McGough didn't match him in dryness or density , it's not close and you're desperately trying to make it so.

That's because I didn't know hardness is density. In case you missed it I also posted Dorian had better density in the same quote I said Ronnie matched him in hardness, that was because like I said I didn't know hardness = density.

It doesn't contradict it at all, I said Dorian has better conditioning, but Ronnie matches him on dryness only (which is one aspect of conditioning), of course Dorian still has the advantage on this aspect of the criteria.

You also posted that Ronnie could match Dorian in dryness and now saying its not possible. 

Anyway, after all I've learned about conditioning here, in my opinion Dorian has the advantage, but it wouldn't be as crushing as with his 90s competition since Ronnie was incredibly dry in 98.

1998 vs Dorian easy , win for Dorian no questions asked no if ands or buts about it. 2001 maybe gets closer to Dorian 1993/1995 this may be the closest he gets although he's similar in size and conditioning than 1998 but people absolutely rave about 2001 so it warrants tougher competition , I think it's like Dorian 1993 and 1995 similar but people just rave about the latter

We can disagree on Dorian winning easy.

Dorian from the front didn't show great detail and separation? in what pics & videos?

From your quotes then it is a possibility that Dorian indeed was a different scene when viewed live and in person. I wouldn't know because I never saw him like that, so I can give it to you that it changes this.

Still I think Ronnie in good condition displayed better separation and detail from the front.

again he said a lot of things in the end he said ' I don't know ' you're not satisfied with that answer

Again where are you getting this info? where did he say his victories in the 90s weren't close? maybe it would be close who knows? maybe it would either way Dorian wins , you want it to be close I'll hand you that on a silver platter , it's close Dorian still wins a ' close ' contest even though he crushes him on density , dryness , balance , proportion , and posing but it's a close 

Sure for you Dorian would win 'easily' and 'crushing' Ronnie. In my opinion maybe he would win, but it would be a close contest.

Let's just say an IFBB judge also implied it would be a close contest and was actually giving it to Ronnie first.

[JP_RC]

His conditioning in 1997 at 270lbs is great , maybe not 100% but pretty close anyway , I'm saying using that logic if Dorian NEVER became injured in 1994 or 1997 , he never tore ANY muscles then we can say Ronnie would have never won his Olympias

If Dorian had never injured himself then maybe Ronnie would have never won his O? Maybe, but maybe he would've been better too and won them anyway. 

Since we are going with 'what ifs' then Dorian wouldn't have won all of his O either.

[JP_RC]

Dorian's conditioning in 1997 was phenomenal.  Not his best ever, but great nonetheless.  

Much better than Nasser for sure.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Those b&w shots of Dorian in 93 would beat any bodybuilder in my opinion too.

I think 1993/1995 Dorian vs a 98/01 Ronnie would be close. We can agree to disagree.

I think his whole arms looked a bit small for his torso in some poses in 95, not just one bicep shorter.

That's because I didn't know hardness is density. In case you missed it I also posted Dorian had better density in the same quote I said Ronnie matched him in hardness, that was because like I said I didn't know hardness = density.

It doesn't contradict it at all, I said Dorian has better conditioning, but Ronnie matches him on dryness only (which is one aspect of conditioning), of course Dorian still has the advantage on this aspect of the criteria.

You also posted that Ronnie could match Dorian in dryness and now saying its not possible. 

Anyway, after all I've learned about conditioning here, in my opinion Dorian has the advantage, but it wouldn't be as crushing as with his 90s competition since Ronnie was incredibly dry in 98.

We can disagree on Dorian winning easy.

From your quotes then it is a possibility that Dorian indeed was a different scene when viewed live and in person. I wouldn't know because I never saw him like that, so I can give it to you that it changes this.

Still I think Ronnie in good condition displayed better separation and detail from the front.

Sure for you Dorian would win 'easily' and 'crushing' Ronnie. In my opinion maybe he would win, but it would be a close contest.

Let's just say an IFBB judge also implied it would be a close contest and was actually giving it to Ronnie first.

Those b&w shots of Dorian in 93 would beat any bodybuilder in my opinion too.

ok so this much we agree on.

I think 1993/1995 Dorian vs a 98/01 Ronnie would be close. We can agree to disagree.

98 wouldn't be close maybe 01

I think his whole arms looked a bit small for his torso in some poses in 95, not just one bicep shorter.

ok

That's because I didn't know hardness is density. In case you missed it I also posted Dorian had better density in the same quote I said Ronnie matched him in hardness, that was because like I said I didn't know hardness = density.

I know what you typed and you need to brush up more on what you're commenting on ( no offense )

It doesn't contradict it at all, I said Dorian has better conditioning, but Ronnie matches him on dryness only (which is one aspect of conditioning), of course Dorian still has the advantage on this aspect of the criteria.

Ronnie doesn't match him on dryness either

You also posted that Ronnie could match Dorian in dryness and now saying its not possible.  

that was playing devil's advocate , for the sake of argument. McGough said Ronnie was never as hard or as dry as Dorian I tend to agree with him

Anyway, after all I've learned about conditioning here, in my opinion Dorian has the advantage, but it wouldn't be as crushing as with his 90s competition since Ronnie was incredibly dry in 98.

Dryness isn't the pinnacle of conditioning , density combined with dryness is so the advantage from my point of view is crushing

We can disagree on Dorian winning easy.

that goes without saying

From your quotes then it is a possibility that Dorian indeed was a different scene when viewed live and in person. I wouldn't know because I never saw him like that, so I can give it to you that it changes this.

neither have I which is why I tend to go with eye witness accounts

Still I think Ronnie in good condition displayed better separation and detail from the front.

ok

Sure for you Dorian would win 'easily' and 'crushing' Ronnie. In my opinion maybe he would win, but it would be a close contest.

ok Dorian 1993 precontest would win easily

Let's just say an IFBB judge also implied it would be a close contest and was actually giving it to Ronnie first.

implied? you keep needing this to be close and are trying all angles to contradict what he said in the end. " I don't know "  

If Dorian had never injured himself then maybe Ronnie would have never won his O? Maybe, but maybe he would've been better too and won them anyway.  

Since we are going with 'what ifs' then Dorian wouldn't have won all of his O either.

you started that train of thought , I was only using it against you

[NarcissisticDeity]

Out of interest did you ever see Dorian on stage or are these "he looked much better in person" comments just what you've heard from others?

Never seen him but that's the general consensus from most who have.

[Hulkster]

most people who have seen both onstage live and in person say Ronnie was world's better.

eg:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=252142.0

Of course directly.
And I have seen him competing directly 1994 and 1996.

And I say

Dorian is not in the league of Ronnie.
Best Ronnie was from the outer space.
No competition.

comments like this hit close to home and drive dumb nuthuggers crazy. they hate it when people verify what the pics and vids already show. perhaps they will say these comments are faked along with the 99 vids? LOL

[NarcissisticDeity]

most people who have seen both onstage live and in person say Ronnie was world's better.

eg:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=252142.0

comments like this hit close to home and drive dumb nuthuggers crazy. they hate it when people verify what the pics and vids already show. perhaps they will say these comments are faked along with the 99 vids? LOL

Thanks for playing dummy  

Flex Magazine Jan 1999

Ernie Taylor

" When I saw Ronnie Coleman backstage before the prejudging , it was looking at ' three-D ' again. He looked fantastic. But I think if Dorian ( Yates ) were competing he would have won the show . "


Special Ed : Ronnie of Dorian competed in 1998 would you have smoked him?

Ronnie Coleman : NO I think he would have kept on winning as long as he competed I don't think he would have lost.



Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90.  interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.

Jim:  What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?


Ronnie:  Dorian would have won again.


Jim: You think so?


Ronnie:  I know so.  Dorian has a big physique - hard-


Lee Priest

HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?

I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.




the quotes from Ronnie will always haunt you   

[NarcissisticDeity]

Comments out of courtesy/nostalgia. 

out of fear is more like it , Dorian dominated in a way Ronnie never could there was a very good reason why Ronnie believed Dorian would beat him

1998 Ronnie's best Olympia showing he just barely beat Flex by the skin of his teeth , 3 points and Dorian obliterated Flex who was in his prime year in 1993 a contest that Dorian was so far ahead in he didn't even need to be included in the muscularity round , and Ronnie's supposed to beat Dorian? lol people can keep telling themselves that

[RocketSwitch625]

out of fear is more like it , Dorian dominated in a way Ronnie never could there was a very good reason why Ronnie believed Dorian would beat him

1998 Ronnie's best Olympia showing he just barely beat Flex by the skin of his teeth , 3 points and Dorian obliterated Flex who was in his prime year in 1993 a contest that Dorian was so far ahead in he didn't even need to be included in the muscularity round , and Ronnie's supposed to beat Dorian? lol people can keep telling themselves that

But let's not forgot that Levrone, Wheeler, Ray, Cormier, Nasser etc. were all way better than the pasty white ex racist Brit. Levrone should've won in 92, Wheeler in 93, Ray in 94, Levrone in 95, Ray in 96 and Nasser in 97. Yates didn't deserve to win a single Olympia