Author Topic: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!  (Read 22595 times)

tbombz

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #125 on: November 19, 2010, 05:15:36 PM »
ill knock them both out  8)

FREAKgeek

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #126 on: November 19, 2010, 05:52:05 PM »
Ahh Mike Tyson... one of the biggest hyped up sports legends of the 20th century, dominated tomato cans of the 1980's (except buster douglas) and then wasted his prime in prison and now talks to pigeons.

Darren Avey

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #127 on: November 20, 2010, 02:05:01 AM »
Ahh Mike Tyson... one of the biggest hyped up sports legends of the 20th century, dominated tomato cans of the 1980's (except buster douglas) and then wasted his prime in prison and now talks to pigeons.

Im sure you ve achieved a lot more in life than he ever did "FREAKgeek"

Parker

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #128 on: November 20, 2010, 02:50:39 AM »
Mike Tyson could be 65-80 yrs old and some young idiot (read fighter, MMA, toughguy, brawler, thug, soldier of fortune, merc, sailor, Russian, Serbian, African, other third worlder, German, martial artist, hunter, etc) will say, "I could beat Mike Tyson."

The Wizard of Truth

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #129 on: November 20, 2010, 02:59:36 AM »

That isn't a takedown, that is someone falling about like a drunk.
After seeing Chuck Liddell on strictly come dancing Brock thought he'd audition with Cain

biff

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #130 on: November 20, 2010, 11:44:03 AM »
Mike Tyson could be 65-80 yrs old and some young idiot (read fighter, MMA, toughguy, brawler, thug, soldier of fortune, merc, sailor, Russian, Serbian, African, other third worlder, German, martial artist, hunter, etc) will say, "I could beat Mike Tyson."

just a testament to how feared the guy truly was - 20+ plus years after the fact he is still the standard every supposed hardass wants to be measured against

Tito24

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #131 on: November 20, 2010, 11:50:26 AM »

mesmorph78

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #132 on: November 20, 2010, 12:35:26 PM »
Tyson is the man
and was the baddest man on the planet.
choice is an illusion

disco_stu

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #133 on: November 20, 2010, 01:20:30 PM »


Ali and Foreman to name two would have given Mike huge problems. By huge problems i mean would have broke him down and stopped him.

You clearly know jack about boxing.

Mike was always known to be mentally frail, it was his biggest weakness. Fastest handspeed at heavy goes to Ali, although Mike obviously had more power.

Overeem wouldn't do anthing against Tyson, it would be domination. However Alistair has said nothing of the kind.

Darren talking like a #girl like normal. ;)

absolutely correct. he was still a force when douglas took him down.

the hyper over mike is the real tragedy here. yes he was good, but he didnt fight anyone really worthy..they came later or were already out of their prime. thats just the way it was. AND, still, a average boxer beat him down.

an exceptional- but LHW really-  boxer beat him twice. schooled him in fact.

and finally he got smashed by a tall guy who could actually box.

stop nuthugging and be objective.


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #134 on: November 20, 2010, 02:50:22 PM »
I can tell you based on personal experience and eye witness account that Royce was by far NOT the best Gracie let alone the best fighter representing Jiu-Jitsu at the time. As far as the brothers that were living and teaching in Cali at the time, as well as their cousins the Machados, Royce would have been ranked dead last. He was chosen by Rorion by default. Royler, who was better than Royce, was considered too small (about 135 lbs) and his English was practically non existent at the time. Royce, was Rorion's right hand man at the time as he brought him out to America when he was just 18 to help with teaching and was more like a son to Rorion than a brother due to the huge difference in age. Rickson, easily the family champion who would literally toy with Royce, would not have been so easily controlled by Rorion.

When Rorion asked his cousins, the Machado's, specifically Rigan and Jean-Jacques, to help Royce train for his fight with Kerr, and this was when Royce was already a season fighter and considered one of the best in the world, both Rigan and Jean-Jacques, who I was training with at time, mentioned how surprised they were at the low level of Royce's Jiu-Jitsu. When I asked if he wasn't a Gracie but just one of the members of their academy how would they rank him. Rigan said he would consider him a high level purple belt. So, that boxer is at a far more higher level in his discipline than Royce was in his. That boxer was rated in the top ten and I doubt Royce would have even placed as a Black Belt in a major tournament considering how easily he got choked unconscious by Wallid Ismael when Royce was already a famous UFC champ.

That guy you see being introduced at .29 sec is Carlson Gracie, son of the founder of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, Carlos Gracie. Carlos was also the older brother of Helio, Rorion's father. Wallid is from Carlson's school. A bit, if not a lot, of bad blood between those two camps. Carlson comes from that generation of Vale Tudo fighters where there were no rules, no time limits and no weight classes. Compared to how they competed in those days makes today's UFC seem like child's play. Carlson was also was the one who avenged Helio's lost (Helio was 43 at the time) to his former student, Valdemar Santana, after going at it for around 3 hours and 45 minutes straight! When they say no time limits in Vale Tudo they mean it!

Royce vs. Wallid
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x27qoe_rare-royce-gracie-vs-wallid-ismail_sport  

Royce said during the early UFC's that Rickson was 100X better than he was , Rickson was probably the best at traditional BBJ


Man I remember when Wallid beat Royce that was an insanely huge deal in the BBJ world and look what happened to Wallid in the UFC  :-\ I thought he'd do better

FREAKgeek

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #135 on: November 20, 2010, 03:02:18 PM »
Im sure you ve achieved a lot more in life than he ever did "FREAKgeek"

I love you, "Darren Avery".

pellius

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #136 on: November 21, 2010, 12:39:36 AM »
Pellius,do you compete in BJJ or submission grappling tournaments ?

Yes, for about ten years. Very active during the mid 1990s to early 2000. I started straying away from gi training and competing with gi by around 1998. I started at the Gracie academy in Torrance when they first opened up in 1991. My first lesson, a one on one introductory lesson, was with Royce. I remember thinking how skinny he was. Especially his arms. From his wrist to his shoulder it was all one size. We knew he would submit every one in the UFC because no one knew Jiu-Jitsu at the time and no one knew how to defend take downs. Out biggest worry, and it was big, was Shamrock. Shamrock was fighting in Japan and knew the ground game and physically he was vastly superior to Royce in every way.

suckmymuscle

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #137 on: November 21, 2010, 01:59:41 AM »
  Oh for fuck sake, are you people still debating this? Who won UFC 1 back in 1993? A skinny 170 lbs Brazilian named Royce Gracie. How did he beat boxers and brawlers that outweighted him by over 100 lbs? By taking them down and using leverage on their limbs to force them to submit and give up. Tyson would have a puncher's chance against a top MMA fighter. If Overeem decides to stand with Tyson, the latter does stand a chance simply because he is so fast and powerful with his fists. But Overeem would simply clinch with Tyson and knee Tyson's head until Tyson went into coma. But Overeem wouldn't risk standing with Tyson, even though he could since he uses his legs and knees with devastating effectiveness whilst Tyson only uses his fists. Overeem would clinch with Tyson, throw him to the ground and submit him there. Game over.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

pellius

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #138 on: November 21, 2010, 02:24:53 AM »
Royce said during the early UFC's that Rickson was 100X better than he was , Rickson was probably the best at traditional BBJ


Man I remember when Wallid beat Royce that was an insanely huge deal in the BBJ world and look what happened to Wallid in the UFC  :-\ I thought he'd do better

I was training with the Machados (Gracie's cousins) at the time. Rorion's school was getting pretty political and there was a lot of tension and in fighting. Things were more open at the Machados and they had top guys from Brasil visiting the school which you didn't have at Gracie's. None of the Machado brothers were surprise at Royce's loss. They even made jokes about it. There was one funny one about a clock and how long Royce lasted (Wallid submitted him with a clock choke). Jean-Jacques said that Royce held the record as the fastest person ever to go from a Purple belt to a Black belt. And it wasn't meant as a compliment. When Rorion brought Royce over from Brasil, Royce was only 18 and still a purple belt. And untested one at that because he didn't compete much. Rorion just gave him his Black belt so he could teach. He figured Brasil was far, far away and nobody here could tell the difference -- which was true.

Having said that Royce evolved into a tough warrior simply out of necessity. I didn't really start to appreciate him until he beat Yoshida twice in Japan (I thought  Royce won the first fight and really school him the second time around.

The Gracies lived about a half a mile from me in Torrance. It was Rorion with his family and Royce in one house and Rickson with his family down the street in another house. Good times then.

PJim

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #139 on: November 21, 2010, 03:37:04 AM »
What annoys me about MMA, is that it attracts all of the try-hards.

Jaime

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #140 on: November 21, 2010, 11:26:51 AM »
 Oh for fuck sake, are you people still debating this? Who won UFC 1 back in 1993? A skinny 170 lbs Brazilian named Royce Gracie. How did he beat boxers and brawlers that outweighted him by over 100 lbs? By taking them down and using leverage on their limbs to force them to submit and give up. Tyson would have a puncher's chance against a top MMA fighter. If Overeem decides to stand with Tyson, the latter does stand a chance simply because he is so fast and powerful with his fists. But Overeem would simply clinch with Tyson and knee Tyson's head until Tyson went into coma. But Overeem wouldn't risk standing with Tyson, even though he could since he uses his legs and knees with devastating effectiveness whilst Tyson only uses his fists. Overeem would clinch with Tyson, throw him to the ground and submit him there. Game over.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


I explained the rulesets to you earlier moron. Thai clinch isn't permissable in K-1. Overeem hasn't got the chin or the technique to survive a power punching swarmer. Kicking is all well and good against flat footed plodders. But unless your timing is perfect, someone with good footwork is going to get inside of you and counter.


Royce fought against complete cans, no top Judokai, boxers, Ju Jitsu guys. Grappling is more effective than striking though no argument, Mike gets put on his back in mma.

Bottom line is the title says in boxing....Any type of striking and Overeem is finished in under a round.
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monstercalves

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #141 on: November 21, 2010, 02:05:24 PM »
Royce said during the early UFC's that Rickson was 100X better than he was , Rickson was probably the best at traditional BBJ


Man I remember when Wallid beat Royce that was an insanely huge deal in the BBJ world and look what happened to Wallid in the UFC  :-\ I thought he'd do better

Rickson is the best of the gracie fighters....its a fact

suckmymuscle

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #142 on: November 21, 2010, 02:31:48 PM »
I explained the rulesets to you earlier moron. Thai clinch isn't permissable in K-1.

  Ready to get owned again, bitch? This is irrelevant because TYSON AND OVEREEM WOULDN'T FIGHT IN K-1. Dumbass. They would fight in a no-holds-barred fight and Overeem would clinch with Tyson and knee his head to a coma.

  Let me ask you a question, dumbass: Do you really think that Tyson would stand any chance against a top MMA fighter ??? If you do, then you are even stupider than I thought you were.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Jaime

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #143 on: November 21, 2010, 03:05:38 PM »
 Ready to get owned again, bitch? This is irrelevant because TYSON AND OVEREEM WOULDN'T FIGHT IN K-1. Dumbass. They would fight in a no-holds-barred fight and Overeem would clinch with Tyson and knee his head to a coma.

  Let me ask you a question, dumbass: Do you really think that Tyson would stand any chance against a top MMA fighter ??? If you do, then you are even stupider than I thought you were.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Read the thread title you chimp loving filth, hence most of the discourse in this thread. In any event in a no holds barred enviroment, Overeem would get his fucking face chewed off most likely.

MMA is not no holds barred.

Go and snap some Dobermans necks super soldier. ::)
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suckmymuscle

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #144 on: November 21, 2010, 03:11:10 PM »

Read the thread title you chimp loving filth, hence most of the discourse in this thread. In any event in a no holds barred enviroment, Overeem would get his fucking face chewed off most likely.

MMA is not no holds barred.

Go and snap some Dobermans necks super soldier. ::)

  Idiot, when I mean no-holds-barred I mean a typical MMA fight. Going by your logic, a 120 lbs female would just shoot Tyson and kill him. This is about a non-boxing fight, retard. A fight where you can use not only your fists but also your legs, knees, wrestling and submissions. Of course eye poking, biting and hitting at the back of the neck won't be allowed. For fuck sake, man, you are so fucking stupid. You obviously love Tyson because you are a boxer. It shows because only someone who took so many blows to the head can be this stupid.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

pellius

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #145 on: November 21, 2010, 03:54:16 PM »
Rickson is the best of the gracie fighters....its a fact

Well, that may be true. He certainly was head and tails above the rest of his family and the champs that came from Brasil in Jiu-Jitsu. I saw it first hand and nobody came close to him on the mat. Although I started at Rorion's academy in Torrance I only stayed there for around six months and left to train with Rickson when he left the Torrance school to start his own school in West LA. Rorion was difficult to work with and wanted to control everything. Jiu-Jitsu wasn't big at all in those days and though Rickson was famous in Brasil he was a nobody here so in addition to the group classes I got to take one hour private lessons with him once a week for $50.00/hr. It usually lasted a lot longer because I would show up early to watch his private lessons with Eric Paulson who I recently found out is Brock Lesnar's Jiu-Jitsu teacher. He would use me to be Eric's dummy to help with his instruction. I stayed with Rickson for several years until he got so busy that he didn't teach as much anymore and left the duties to Limao (Luis Heredia) who was a purple/brown at the time which is why I went to the Machado's where all the brothers were there: Carlos, Rigan, Jean-Jacques, Roger and John. Along with these Black Belts there also was a steady stream of Black Belts coming in and out from Brasil. Rickson was the only Black Belt at his school.

I never will understand why Rickson didn't fight Sakuraba when it matter. When Saku was one by one handing Gracie their asses. If for no other reason then to defend his family honor as his father, Helio, would have done and as all the Gracie's before him had done. If he fought Saku and won, and I believe he would have, then his legacy would have been sealed. Just by that one fight. But he didn't and he is, rightly so, forever questioned. He never really tested himself and that will always remain an eternal mystery to me. I don't believe he was afraid of losing. He was utterly fearless when it came to fighting. There was one time when a fighter from Japan showed up at our school with a camera crew and some of his students and challenge Rickson to fight right there and then. This guy was a professional fighter and felt Rickson ducked him when he was competing in Japan. This guy had obviously been training and preparing for this big show down. Rickson was not there at the time because he had just arrived home from Japan the night before. But Limao called him and, jet lag and all, having no preparation to fight this guy, he drove right down to the school. When he arrived we shut the doors of that old warehouse adjacent to an auto shop and they went at it. Rickson beat the living shit out of the Jap. He like to end tournament/professional/competition fights with submissions because he did not want to hurt his opponent (so he said) but this was a street fight. When Rickson got the mount he just pounded that guy into a bloody mess. His posse tired to stop it but we would not allow it. "You came here. You interrupted our class. You issued the challenge. It goes to the end."

The Japanese came back some time later dressed in traditional grab and presented a scroll of apology. I've always love the Japanese warrior spirit and sense of honor. Well, at least the traditional ones.

Having known, trained and spent time with Rickson I had no doubt that he would fight Saku. When people at the time would ask me if Rickson would ever step up and defend the family honor I would tell them it was destiny. I truly believe that.

I was wrong. Rickson legacy, if you can even call it that, will forever be tainted. He did not live up to the Gracie code of fighting anybody, anytime, anywhere. Not like that fearless, kind and gentle warrior that is his cousin, Renzo Gracie. Renzo may have not been the best MMA fighter in the world, or even the best Gracie, but more than any other of his generation of Gracies, he exemplified the warrior spirit more than any other.  


 

Darren Avey

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #146 on: November 22, 2010, 10:17:21 AM »

Read the thread title you chimp loving filth, hence most of the discourse in this thread. In any event in a no holds barred enviroment, Overeem would get his fucking face chewed off most likely.MMA is not no holds barred.

Go and snap some Dobermans necks super soldier. ::)

Thats a fact, Overeem in a street brawl with Tyson wouldnt know what to do against a snarling maniac trying to bite his face off.

pellius

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #147 on: November 22, 2010, 12:54:10 PM »
Thats a fact, Overeem in a street brawl with Tyson wouldnt know what to do against a snarling maniac trying to bite his face off.

Can you please post a link to the claim that you made when you started this thread? Either that or admit you just made it up or took it out of context and posted it here to garner attention to yuorself or that it was some kind of inside joke. As I mentioned before, you earn some respect from me (not that it matters to you I confess) when you admitted as a result of your own personal survey that you found that more people followed and were more familiar with MMA than boxing. I'm sure that was something you didn't want to admit but it showed good character and a bit of class that you did. It takes a man to admit when he's wrong and being a man is not always about who can kick who's ass. Why would you tarnish your credibility by starting a thread like this?

Darren Avey

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #148 on: November 23, 2010, 10:28:16 AM »
Its on eastsideboxing.com!! In the lounge section, you have to be a member to see the lounge though therefore a link on here wouldnt work as it ll tell you to register.
Yes MMA is more popular than boxing, mainly in under 30s.

Jaime

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Re: Alistair Overeem claims he d have KOed a peak Tyson in 5!!in BOXING!!!
« Reply #149 on: November 23, 2010, 10:45:39 AM »
I think MMA has peaked, or rather UFC has, easy to get the two mixed up.

The PPV's this year have been complete dross, They keep churning more and more out and down goes the quality.

It's stagnating, it's a shame really but the UFC just sees the dollar signs and it is just a product now.
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