Have terrorists been successful?

[Dos Equis]

Was reading about the goals of terrorism (see excerpt below).  Sounds like Osama, Al Qaeda, the shoe bomber, and the underwear bomber have successfully influenced government (over)regulation of air travel.  Isn't the whole intent of this TSA nonsense to prevent someone from blowing up a plane?  Seems like we are playing right into their hands. 



The Intent of Terrorist Groups

A terrorist group commits acts of violence to -

Produce widesrpead fear

Obtain worldwide, national, or local recognition for their cause by attracting the attention of the media

Harass, weaken, or embarrass government security forces so that the the government overreacts and appears repressive

Steal or extort money and equipment, especially weapons and ammunition vital to the operation of their group

Destroy facilities or disrupt lines of communication in order to create doubt that the government can provide for and protect its citizens

Discourage foreign investments, tourism, or assistance programs that can affect the target country’s economy and support of the government in power

Influence government decisions, legislation, or other critical decisions

Free prisoners

Satisfy vengeance

Turn the tide in a guerrilla war by forcing government security forces to concentrate their efforts in urban areas. This allows the terrorist group to establish itself among the local populace in rural areas

http://www.terrorism-research.com/goals/

[George Whorewell]

Absolutely. Not in terms of blood, but in terms of drastically changing the way America operates. Some for the good-- we are definitely more diligent, have better information sharing between agencies and have a much more proactive rather than reactive stance on counterterrorism. But we are also less free, more stressed and exist in what seems to be a constant state of alert. Government intrusion has gone from necessary to offensive. And despite constant threats being subdued, does anyone feel safer? I sure as shit don't. The prospect of another large scale terrorist act on our shores is imminent. It's a question of when, not if.

So while they haven't killed many of us and they have been frequently thwarted, life is a lot different than it was pre 911. 

[Arnold jr]

Absolutely. Not in terms of blood, but in terms of drastically changing the way America operates. Some for the good-- we are definitely more diligent, have better information sharing between agencies and have a much more proactive rather than reactive stance on counterterrorism. But we are also less free, more stressed and exist in what seems to be a constant state of alert. Government intrusion has gone from necessary to offensive. And despite constant threats being subdued, does anyone feel safer? I sure as shit don't. The prospect of another large scale terrorist act on our shores is imminent. It's a question of when, not if.

So while they haven't killed many of us and they have been frequently thwarted, life is a lot different than it was pre 911. 

I was eager to respond to this thread but you pretty much summed it up with the above. I will add this though, the only way all of this stupidity will come to an end follows IMO as so...like you said, there will be another attack, there's no question, unfortunately it's going to take something just as big if not bigger than 9/11 for a lot of people in this country to get their heads out of their ass. Then at that point and only then will we reach a point where the terrorist aren't winning...we have the ability but unfortunately we're probably going to have to be pushed and forced into it. 

[Cy Tolliver]

Was reading about the goals of terrorism (see excerpt below).  Sounds like Osama, Al Qaeda, the shoe bomber, and the underwear bomber have successfully influenced government (over)regulation of air travel.  Isn't the whole intent of this TSA nonsense to prevent someone from blowing up a plane?  Seems like we are playing right into their hands. 



The Intent of Terrorist Groups

A terrorist group commits acts of violence to -

Produce widesrpead fear

Obtain worldwide, national, or local recognition for their cause by attracting the attention of the media

Harass, weaken, or embarrass government security forces so that the the government overreacts and appears repressive

Steal or extort money and equipment, especially weapons and ammunition vital to the operation of their group

Destroy facilities or disrupt lines of communication in order to create doubt that the government can provide for and protect its citizens

Discourage foreign investments, tourism, or assistance programs that can affect the target country’s economy and support of the government in power

Influence government decisions, legislation, or other critical decisions

Free prisoners

Satisfy vengeance

Turn the tide in a guerrilla war by forcing government security forces to concentrate their efforts in urban areas. This allows the terrorist group to establish itself among the local populace in rural areas

http://www.terrorism-research.com/goals/

Yes, they've been successful...

It all started with the patriot act...

You give them exactly what they want.  You seem to live in fear.  The Terrorists would have accomplished their goal if everyone thought like you.

I'd take the bastard terrorists on myself before letting our corrupt government take anymore of my Freedoms.  

It really is a shame that you and other sheeple don't see whats really going on.  "Go ahead, take the freedom our founding fathers gave us.  Just as long as you protect me."

We gave Bin Laden exactly what he wanted.  Thanks Mr. I!

[OzmO]

If they have been successful then at what cost was it to them?

I see us having to make some changes but for the average American how impacting have these changes been?

[Cy Tolliver]

If they have been successful then at what cost was it to them?

I see us having to make some changes but for the average American how impacting have these changes been?

Extremely impacting, we've literally invalidated sections of the constitution because some ignorant cave dwellers supposedly attacked us on 9/11...

[Soul Crusher]

Is this even up for debate any more? 

[The Showstoppa]

Extremely impacting, we've literally invalidated sections of the constitution because some ignorant cave dwellers supposedly attacked us on 9/11...

You had me up until there....

[tonymctones]

You had me up until there....

LOL quoted for truth

[Cy Tolliver]

You had me up until there....

What's the problem?

You don't like me calling them ignorant? 

[Dos Equis]

If they have been successful then at what cost was it to them?

I see us having to make some changes but for the average American how impacting have these changes been?

Doesn't really cost them anything.  We can't even identify them half the time.  They're also willing to commit suicide to kill and create fear. 

Outside of this TSA crap, we haven't really lost rights and freedoms, but there has been a significant financial cost to fight terrorism.  We have an entirely new federal department as a result of 9/11 (Homeland Security).

[Cy Tolliver]

Doesn't really cost them anything.  We can't even identify them half the time.  They're also willing to commit suicide to kill and create fear. 

Outside of this TSA crap, we haven't really lost rights and freedoms, but there has been a significant financial cost to fight terrorism.  We have an entirely new federal department as a result of 9/11 (Homeland Security).

Really?

I was under the impression that the fourth amendment basically no longer applied?

[Dos Equis]

Really?

I was under the impression that the fourth amendment basically no longer applied?

How so?  

[Cy Tolliver]

How so?  

US citizens have had their right trampled on left and right in the name of national security. Google News it if you're interested.

(this was brought up prior to 2007 on getbig, and most everyone on the political board brushed it off like it was no big deal)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20999950/ns/us_news-security

[Dos Equis]

US citizens have had their right trampled on left and right in the name of national security. Google News it if you're interested.

(this was brought up prior to 2007 on getbig, and most everyone on the political board brushed it off like it was no big deal)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20999950/ns/us_news-security

Google what?  You said the Fourth Amendment no longer exists.  I asked how.  You linked me to an article where a judge ruled parts of the Patriot was unconstitutional.  The article contradicts your claim that the Fourth Amendment no longer exists. 

Here is the text of the Fourth Amendment:  "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." 

Which part no longer exists? 

[OzmO]

Doesn't really cost them anything.  We can't even identify them half the time.  They're also willing to commit suicide to kill and create fear. 

Outside of this TSA crap, we haven't really lost rights and freedoms, but there has been a significant financial cost to fight terrorism.  We have an entirely new federal department as a result of 9/11 (Homeland Security).

Here is what comes to mind when I think about what is cost them:

- Thousands of American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan hunting and killing them
-  More world opinion turned against them
- Operations through out the world made more difficult as governments of other countries cooperating with the USA to find them
- The people who may support and finance them held in greater scrutiny
- other countries not wanting to help them for fear of reprisals from the USA
- ability to carry out terrorist attacks reduced


there are probably lots of Other things.


As far freedoms taken away affecting every life?  I donno.

So that's why I don't know their attack was all that successful.

[Cy Tolliver]

Google what?  You said the Fourth Amendment no longer exists.  I asked how.  You linked me to an article where a judge ruled parts of the Patriot was unconstitutional.  The article contradicts your claim that the Fourth Amendment no longer exists. 

That was obviously an exaggeration, settle down...

[Hugo Chavez]

Also interesting what Peter Jennings says right after the interview with Biden, which should ring true with this thread:

At 22:05
http://www.archive.org/details/abc200109111323-1404

[Dos Equis]

Here is what comes to mind when I think about what is cost them:

- Thousands of American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan hunting and killing them
-  More world opinion turned against them
- Operations through out the world made more difficult as governments of other countries cooperating with the USA to find them
- The people who may support and finance them held in greater scrutiny
- other countries not wanting to help them for fear of reprisals from the USA
- ability to carry out terrorist attacks reduced


there are probably lots of Other things.


As far freedoms taken away affecting every life?  I donno.

So that's why I don't know their attack was all that successful.

I agree for the most part.  The one thing that's problematic about your list is "them."  We're not fighting a country or a traditionally organized force.  They're all over the place.  They're even living in our country.  

If you look at one of the items from the link I posted, it can be directly linked to the shoe and underwear bombers:  "Harass, weaken, or embarrass government security forces so that the the government overreacts and appears repressive."  

We have to take off our shoes at the airport because of the shoe bomber.  We have these sexual assault enhanced searches because of the underwear bomber.  

[Cy Tolliver]

I think it's hilarious scary that it took Beach Bum (and others) nine years to realize this fact...

[Dos Equis]

That was obviously an exaggeration, settle down...

  Nobody is worked up.  Just asking a question.  

[Dos Equis]

I think it's hilarious scary that it took Beach Bum (and others) nine years to realize this fact...

Which portion of the Fourth Amendment no longer exists?  Here is the text (again):

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." 

[Cy Tolliver]

Which portion of the Fourth Amendment no longer exists?  Here is the text (again):

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." 

That was obviously an exaggeration, settle down...

[Dos Equis]

lol.  Then what the heck are you talking about? 

[Cy Tolliver]

lol.  Then what the heck are you talking about? 

The fact that we've let the terrorists get their way.  People here have been complaining about this since 9/11.  As far as I know, this is the first time the thought has crossed your mind?  It's certainly the first time you've posted anything like this.