Most Of The UFC's Best Fighters Are From PRIDE

[roccoginge]

  A loss is a loss, turd. Machida lost. Deal with it. And cry me a river.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

your the one smelling up the place.

[pellius]

Yeah, but they were all past their primes...Royce wasn't.

Anyway I agree that Pride paid better and treated them better at first. I really liked Don Frye, he went to Pride and was great..I still remember his fight with that chinese guy.

I haeve nothing against UFC though, its great too, but I liked Pride better.

I did not really consider Royce a Pride fighter. He fought in only two tournaments: the Grand Prix in 2000 and a grudge match against Yoshida in 2003. He fought in another Japanese production, K1/Dynamite, I think around 3 times. But that's it. He was not a vary active fighter at all. Truth be told, the Gracies were a pain in the ass to deal with. They always insisted on special rules and exceptions. If you remember, the Grand Prix, an elimination tournament, everyone had to follow the same rules except Royce. He was allowed to wear a gi and granted no time limit matches as well as premium pay. There were also other special rules such as no head butts and the like but I don't know the details of that. Rickson was the same way though the Japanese were far more willing to jump through hoops to get him in the ring. But even that wasn't enough. Rickson was very particular as to who he would fight despite his claims that he doesn't choose his fights. LOL! Rickson was the only one in Japan who could pick and choose his opponents. The Japs were so desperate that they even paid him a million dollars to fight Funaki. After that they decide not to put up with his demands and he never fought again. Same with Royce and all the rest of the Gracies. Their luster was fading and they were going to be treated as just another fighter. The Gracie's pay scale in Japan took a big dive after that and the idea of special rules was not even considered.

By the time Royce return to the UFC he was already 40 yrs. old and way past his prime. It wouldn't have mattered anyway because. He was a first generation American MMA fighter who never evolved. Just pure Jiu-Jitsu which didn't cut it anymore when he faced Matt Hughes, a second generation MMA fighter.   

[pellius]

Truth be told, Royce was never a great fighter or a great athlete compared to what Brasil had to offer at the time. You could have randomly pick any Brasilian fighting in Vale Tudo at the time and they would have been much more dominate. These guys were born and bred fighting in no rules, bare fisted, no weight limits fights competing against other equally trained highly conditioned athletes that knew all the tricks. Royce MMA experience consisted of closed door in house fights with the various tools from traditional martial arts who had no clue and very little, if any, real life fighting experience. Even high level blue belts would send these karate masters choked out on the mat wondering what the hell happened.

Royce was simply at the right place at the right time and owes everything to his older brother Rorion. Who, as a bit of behind the scenes gossip, ditched Royce pretty quick when his, Rorion's, sons grew up and his focus turned to them. Royce was "eased" out of teaching duties at the academy and he even had to return the SUV he was driving as it was technically a company car and Royce was "no longer with the company." Rorion is a pretty ruthless businessman and seems to have no qualms even when it came to blood. I remember when he threatened to sue his brother, Rickson, when Rickson started his own school which was called "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu." Rorion claims a patent to that name and we had to promptly change it to "Rickson Gracie Jiu-Jitsu." Um, OK, fair enough, "brother."

Rorion has also been involved in other law suits with family members. He feels that, as his father brought their brand of Jiu-Jitsu to Brasil, he brought Jiu-Jitsu to the world. And he did. He single handedly changed the face of martial arts throughout the world. If it wasn't for him we would have had none of what we see today. Rorion seems bitter that the world doesn't bow down to him and, more importantly, give him a cut from their success that he feels he spawned. I guess I'd be bitter too if I sold a promotion that would turn into a billion dollar industry.

[spinnis]

I guess I'd be bitter too if I sold a promotion that would turn into a billion dollar industry.

This line is stupid though Pellius. It wouldnt have if he still had it.. Its all because of dana and the brothers.. So thinking like that is stupid imo.

would he have been ok with weightclasses, 5 min rounds, bunch of rules etc etc. And thats even besides the point would he have come up with "the ultimate fighter" etc.

[pellius]

This line is stupid though Pellius. It wouldnt have if he still had it.. Its all because of dana and the brothers.. So thinking like that is stupid imo.

would he have been ok with weightclasses, 5 min rounds, bunch of rules etc etc. And thats even besides the point would he have come up with "the ultimate fighter" etc.

Stupid is a bit strong, my friend. You're right that what made the UFC the UFC is because of Dana. When Rorion sold the UFC it was going the WWF route and losing credibility. Dana legitimized the sport. But Rorion started it and if he could go back in time and he knew now what he knows today he would have made any concessions necessary if he could be in Dana's shoes today.

And that applies to pretty much anybody. If we all had the gift of foresight we would have done many things differently. Just put yourself in Rorion's shoes. He's not even a player in the sport he created and the new generation hardly even know who he is. Wouldn't you have regrets? You don't think he has regrets? We all like to think we will be ideologically pure all the way to the bitter end (Rorion's goal at the time was to promote Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and keep the matches as close to a real street fight as possible) but when reality smacks you in the face, and especially when you can make more of an impact by compromising some of you beliefs, or in his case, hopes, then things take on a different perspective. And since Rorion was all about money and power, my experience with him was that he would have had no problem instigating those rules if he could have seen into the future. It would have been an easy trade off for him and he have suffered no sleepless nights.

 

[suckmymuscle]

What a tosser, obvously u never watched the fight and just looked up the result somewhere then pretended to everyone youre a massive UFC fan

  No, I do get that shit on cable since it's the only thing we have now that PRIDE isn't around anymore. You are right about one thing, though: I am definitely not an UFC fan.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[spinnis]

Stupid is a bit strong, my friend. You're right that what made the UFC the UFC is because of Dana. When Rorion sold the UFC it was going the WWF route and losing credibility. Dana legitimized the sport. But Rorion started it and if he could go back in time and he knew now what he knows today he would have made any concessions necessary if he could be in Dana's shoes today.

 

Yeah but being mad over selling something that Wouldn't have been worth a billion dollar if you stil had it is stupid..

"could go back in time" well, we all could have mad millions then 

[pellius]

Yeah but being mad over selling something that Wouldn't have been worth a billion dollar if you stil had it is stupid..

"could go back in time" well, we all could have mad millions then 

Perhaps something is lost in the translation but I don't think I ever said that Rorion was mad but that he simply had regrets. To be in a position that Dana White is in, the figure head and primary mover and shaker in the world of MMA, is something Rorion would relish. If given another chance he would have definitely done things differently and made the needed concessions.

[noworries]

Not sure what is said above but Rorian trademarked 'Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" meaning no one could use the name.  What he ended up doing was charging family members $5000 for the use per year I think it was.  After 3 or 5 years they no longer had to pay to use the name.  That is how I remember it.  Also, Rorian was forced to sell the UFC basically cause he didn't have the money to keep it.  My friend bankrolled it till it ended up ebing to much of a legal nightmare. And when that happens they go after the person with the money.  Also, the format had to change to be able to be successful like it is today.  Rorian formatted the UFC to favor Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and basically tried to make it as rules-free as possible.  Everything you see today is from the markeitng of the sport and how it changed to accomadate what was required by the athletic commissions in each state in order to even put on fights.  If it stayed the way it was when Rorian started it, it would be nowhere like it is today.  Rorian as much as a businessman he was, was not smart enough to keep a portion of it no matter what or how much.

[w8m8]

You are kidding - Rampage beat Machida on Saturday night???  What were the judges thinking? Obviously, Machida is gaining strength and kicking some ass on Rampage in Round 3. Rampage was lucky.

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Liddell has the best idea yet .. the judges.. all of them .. need to be together and go over how they rated past fights and come to some kind of conclusion that will keep things more equal across the board .. but then again .. I reckon the "judges" are all the same in any instance .. they have their own perception of things .. I bet in more than one fight if the judges were changed the outcome would've been different

[pellius]

Not sure what is said above but Rorian trademarked 'Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" meaning no one could use the name.  What he ended up doing was charging family members $5000 for the use per year I think it was.  After 3 or 5 years they no longer had to pay to use the name.  That is how I remember it.  Also, Rorian was forced to sell the UFC basically cause he didn't have the money to keep it.  My friend bankrolled it till it ended up ebing to much of a legal nightmare. And when that happens they go after the person with the money.  Also, the format had to change to be able to be successful like it is today.  Rorian formatted the UFC to favor Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and basically tried to make it as rules-free as possible.  Everything you see today is from the markeitng of the sport and how it changed to accomadate what was required by the athletic commissions in each state in order to even put on fights.  If it stayed the way it was when Rorian started it, it would be nowhere like it is today.  Rorian as much as a businessman he was, was not smart enough to keep a portion of it no matter what or how much.

I didn't know that Rorion was forced to sell. He claimed at the time that they wanted to change the rules, especially the not time limit rules and he wasn't going for it. Your version makes a lot of sense.