Author Topic: There Will Be Blood  (Read 1368 times)

Benny B

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There Will Be Blood
« on: November 22, 2010, 08:30:58 PM »
November 22, 2010
There Will Be Blood
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Former Senator Alan Simpson is a Very Serious Person. He must be — after all, President Obama appointed him as co-chairman of a special commission on deficit reduction.

So here’s what the very serious Mr. Simpson said on Friday: “I can’t wait for the blood bath in April. ... When debt limit time comes, they’re going to look around and say, ‘What in the hell do we do now? We’ve got guys who will not approve the debt limit extension unless we give ’em a piece of meat, real meat,’ ” meaning spending cuts. “And boy, the blood bath will be extraordinary,” he continued.

Think of Mr. Simpson’s blood lust as one more piece of evidence that our nation is in much worse shape, much closer to a political breakdown, than most people realize.

Some explanation: There’s a legal limit to federal debt, which must be raised periodically if the government keeps running deficits; the limit will be reached again this spring. And since nobody, not even the hawkiest of deficit hawks, thinks the budget can be balanced immediately, the debt limit must be raised to avoid a government shutdown. But Republicans will probably try to blackmail the president into policy concessions by, in effect, holding the government hostage; they’ve done it before.

Now, you might think that the prospect of this kind of standoff, which might deny many Americans essential services, wreak havoc in financial markets and undermine America’s role in the world, would worry all men of good will. But no, Mr. Simpson “can’t wait.” And he’s what passes, these days, for a reasonable Republican.

The fact is that one of our two great political parties has made it clear that it has no interest in making America governable, unless it’s doing the governing. And that party now controls one house of Congress, which means that the country will not, in fact, be governable without that party’s cooperation — cooperation that won’t be forthcoming.

Elite opinion has been slow to recognize this reality. Thus on the same day that Mr. Simpson rejoiced in the prospect of chaos, Ben Bernanke, the Federal Reserve chairman, appealed for help in confronting mass unemployment. He asked for “a fiscal program that combines near-term measures to enhance growth with strong, confidence-inducing steps to reduce longer-term structural deficits.”

My immediate thought was, why not ask for a pony, too? After all, the G.O.P. isn’t interested in helping the economy as long as a Democrat is in the White House. Indeed, far from being willing to help Mr. Bernanke’s efforts, Republicans are trying to bully the Fed itself into giving up completely on trying to reduce unemployment.


And on matters fiscal, the G.O.P. program is to do almost exactly the opposite of what Mr. Bernanke called for. On one side, Republicans oppose just about everything that might reduce structural deficits: they demand that the Bush tax cuts be made permanent while demagoguing efforts to limit the rise in Medicare costs, which are essential to any attempts to get the budget under control. On the other, the G.O.P. opposes anything that might help sustain demand in a depressed economy — even aid to small businesses, which the party claims to love.

Right now, in particular, Republicans are blocking an extension of unemployment benefits — an action that will both cause immense hardship and drain purchasing power from an already sputtering economy. But there’s no point appealing to the better angels of their nature; America just doesn’t work that way anymore.

And opposition for the sake of opposition isn’t limited to economic policy. Politics, they used to tell us, stops at the water’s edge — but that was then.

These days, national security experts are tearing their hair out over the decision of Senate Republicans to block a desperately needed new strategic arms treaty. And everyone knows that these Republicans oppose the treaty, not because of legitimate objections, but simply because it’s an Obama administration initiative; if sabotaging the president endangers the nation, so be it.

How does this end? Mr. Obama is still talking about bipartisan outreach, and maybe if he caves in sufficiently he can avoid a federal shutdown this spring. But any respite would be only temporary; again, the G.O.P. is just not interested in helping a Democrat govern.

My sense is that most Americans still don’t understand this reality. They still imagine that when push comes to shove, our politicians will come together to do what’s necessary. But that was another country.

It’s hard to see how this situation is resolved without a major crisis of some kind. Mr. Simpson may or may not get the blood bath he craves this April, but there will be blood sooner or later
. And we can only hope that the nation that emerges from that blood bath is still one we recognize.
!

Soul Crusher

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010, 08:40:44 PM »
And when beck talks like this he is accused of fomenting CW2.  When a muppet and clown like Krugman does it, he gets a spot in the NYT.   ::)

Emmortal

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010, 10:01:10 PM »
And when beck talks like this he is accused of fomenting CW2.  When a muppet and clown like Krugman does it, he gets a spot in the NYT.   ::)

If that's all Beck talked about then we wouldn't consider him the blathering idiot that he is.  He looses credibility with all the other nonsense he spews.

Arnold jr

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2010, 10:08:14 PM »
If that's all Beck talked about then we wouldn't consider him the blathering idiot that he is.  He looses credibility with all the other nonsense he spews.

Such as?

Emmortal

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2010, 10:12:54 PM »
Such as?

Seriously?  I can't honestly believe anyone takes that guy seriously with the majority of things that come out of his mouth.

Arnold jr

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2010, 11:19:23 PM »
Seriously?  I can't honestly believe anyone takes that guy seriously with the majority of things that come out of his mouth.

Yes, seriously. I don't understand why some have a problem with him. Yes, I understand why someone on the far-left wouldn't like him, I understand why someone who sees a European style socialist model as the best model wouldn't like him but I don't understand why anyone who doesn't fall into one of those categories wouldn't like him.

Beck has been right on most things as well and that's important to note. He's stated for 2yrs that the fed would monetize the debt and they did, he has been warning about inflation, we're seeing it, he warned about the means of bypassing congress, we're seeing it...the list goes on and on.

I can understand why some might disagree with him on some personal things such as religious views, Beck is a Mormon, I am not, so there's a disagreement right there, but the basic principles and ideas Beck basis most of his discussions on are based on the constitution, the importance of preservation of the constitution, original intent, the value and importance of honor and truth above anything else...these are things I can't see how anyone can disagree with.

So yes, I'd like to know what it is he's said that you don't like?

Emmortal

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2010, 12:13:23 AM »
Yes, seriously. I don't understand why some have a problem with him. Yes, I understand why someone on the far-left wouldn't like him, I understand why someone who sees a European style socialist model as the best model wouldn't like him but I don't understand why anyone who doesn't fall into one of those categories wouldn't like him.

Beck has been right on most things as well and that's important to note. He's stated for 2yrs that the fed would monetize the debt and they did, he has been warning about inflation, we're seeing it, he warned about the means of bypassing congress, we're seeing it...the list goes on and on.

I can understand why some might disagree with him on some personal things such as religious views, Beck is a Mormon, I am not, so there's a disagreement right there, but the basic principles and ideas Beck basis most of his discussions on are based on the constitution, the importance of preservation of the constitution, original intent, the value and importance of honor and truth above anything else...these are things I can't see how anyone can disagree with.

So yes, I'd like to know what it is he's said that you don't like?

I'll happily answer this tomorrow, I'm about to go to bed and don't have time right this minute.  North Korea just fired off missiles at South Korea...


Arnold jr

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2010, 08:01:32 PM »
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-november-18-2010/george-soros-plans-to-overthrow-america



You're using a comedy show, a show based on satire as you're example? That clip is full of "partial" Beck clips that can be used to do anything you want with. Come on, give me something real to debate and discuss.

Emmortal

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2010, 09:37:51 PM »
You're using a comedy show, a show based on satire as you're example? That clip is full of "partial" Beck clips that can be used to do anything you want with. Come on, give me something real to debate and discuss.

Hey bud, I haven't forgotten about my reply.  Today was extremely hectic at work and I haven't had time to give you a reply worth discussing, but I will as soon as things settle down a bit.

Arnold jr

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2010, 09:48:38 PM »
Hey bud, I haven't forgotten about my reply.  Today was extremely hectic at work and I haven't had time to give you a reply worth discussing, but I will as soon as things settle down a bit.

Look forward to it  :)

Straw Man

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2010, 09:38:15 AM »
You're using a comedy show, a show based on satire as you're example? That clip is full of "partial" Beck clips that can be used to do anything you want with. Come on, give me something real to debate and discuss.

absolutely

Beck is a comedy show too

Did you actually watch the clip

Stewart lays out a valid comparison of Beck/Fox/Murdoch using Becks own formula

It's not crazier than what Beck claims about Soros (I think it's much more valid actually)

Soul Crusher

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010, 09:42:25 AM »
absolutely

Beck is a comedy show too

Did you actually watch the clip

Stewart lays out a valid comparison of Beck/Fox/Murdoch using Becks own formula

It's not crazier than what Beck claims about Soros (I think it's much more valid actually)

Straw - when did Beck tell everyone to buy gold? 

Straw Man

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2010, 10:08:21 AM »
Straw - when did Beck tell everyone to buy gold? 

When Goldline started paying him to tell people to buy gold

Soul Crusher

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2010, 10:11:56 AM »
When Goldline started paying him to tell people to buy gold

It was at 700 an ounce.   

had you followed his advise you have doubled your money.     

Straw Man

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2010, 11:16:32 AM »
It was at 700 an ounce.   

had you followed his advise you have doubled your money.     

he's a paid spokeperson

Soul Crusher

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2010, 11:21:31 AM »
he's a paid spokeperson


 ::) 

Celente was calling for gold well before that as was Schiff because they knew hat was coming with the treasonous failure known as Obama. 

Are Celente and Schiff paid spokespeople too?  Or is it that anyone who dares speaks out, or has spoken out from day one against the transformational traitor bama a paid spokesperson? 

Straw Man

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2010, 11:31:51 AM »
::) 

Celente was calling for gold well before that as was Schiff because they knew hat was coming with the treasonous failure known as Obama. 

Are Celente and Schiff paid spokespeople too?   Or is it that anyone who dares speaks out, or has spoken out from day one against the transformational traitor bama a paid spokesperson? 

certainly not in the same way as Beck

LOT's of people forcast that gold would rise

get over it

Arnold jr

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Re: There Will Be Blood
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2010, 03:06:24 PM »
absolutely

Beck is a comedy show too

Did you actually watch the clip

Stewart lays out a valid comparison of Beck/Fox/Murdoch using Becks own formula

It's not crazier than what Beck claims about Soros (I think it's much more valid actually)

Yes, I watched the whole clip. The clip took small parts of the Beck show and pieced them in to do what they wanted with them.

Like I've said before, everything Beck said in his Soros special is documented and cited with sources. If he's wrong about what he is saying, if he lied, it should be very easy to prove...so far no one has done that.