Author Topic: tallgerman welcome back back thread  (Read 5316 times)

dj181

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2010, 05:41:45 PM »
That's hard to answer. I would recommend picking 1 major compound movement for the 3 major body areas (push/pull/legs) and doing 2 or 3 work sets per exercise, hitting each exercise twice a week. For example: Push: DB Incline Press 3*6 Pull: Weighted Wide-grip Chins 3*6 Legs: Squats or Leg Presses 2*15. Stick with the major compound moves, and forget about the isolation movements, coz they are a waste of time.

tallgerman

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2010, 05:42:49 PM »
I SHALL KILLL YOU just kidding pal, we should hang some time grab a few bruskies, hit on some tall blondes.

pimpin


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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2010, 05:43:29 PM »
That's hard to answer. I would recommend picking 1 major compound movement for the 3 major body areas (push/pull/legs) and doing 2 or 3 work sets per exercise, hitting each exercise twice a week. For example: Push: DB Incline Press 3*6 Pull: Weighted Wide-grip Chins 3*6 Legs: Squats or Leg Presses 2*15. Stick with the major compound moves, and forget about the isolation movements, coz they are a waste of time.

All the hitsters say 1 set snuff?

Lundgren

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2010, 05:52:19 PM »
pimpin


It's a date than hommies for life. :)

Sir Bigness

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2010, 05:54:02 PM »
ya, welcome back tallerman...

tallgerman

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2010, 05:56:30 PM »
ya, welcome back tallerman...

must be a kobe lover


dj181

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2010, 06:15:25 PM »
Yeah man, I know they say only 1 working set per exercise, but if you look at Arthur Jones old stuff her recommend 2 or even 3 working sets per exercise. What I think is important is to not do more than 4 to 6 total work sets per workout, and to make sure you finish the workout in less than 30 min. I'm just telling you this stuff based on my most recent experiences, as I tried Mentzer's consolidation routine and it didn't do shit for me. More frequent training is required.

tallgerman

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2010, 06:20:51 PM »
so how many weekly workouts?
give me the basic routine....

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2010, 11:22:00 PM »
i actually like tallgerman as a poster

dj181

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2010, 06:40:12 AM »
Well, I train every single day on a 3-way split. Day 1 is Pull which is only 2 to 4 work sets of wide chins with added weight roughly 4 to 6 reps per set, but each set taken to failure. Day 2 is push which is dumbbell incline press with the exact same protocal as the chins. And day 3 is legs which is leg press again with the same protocol as the other 2 exercises but with the goal being 15 reps instead of 6. That's my protocol and it's the best I've ever used, and believe me, I've tried tons of different protocols. I would say that it is a hybrid of HIT and Max-OT, but I am a firm believer in training nearly every single day, but to keep the session short (no more than 30 min) and intense while focusing on PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD, as long as you are making steady improvements (more and more weight) you will get bigger muscles.

tallgerman

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2010, 12:04:44 PM »
nice

so progress made?

dj181

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2010, 12:28:25 PM »
Well, my wide-grip chin has gone from bodyweight for 6 reps to bodyweight plus 25 pounds added on for 8 reps in 2 weeks, and my db incline has increased from 60 pounds per hand for 5 reps to 65 pounds per hand for 8 reps within the same 2 week period, and of course my torso is wider and my arms are thicker ;D 

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2010, 03:43:26 AM »
nice

Fatpanda

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2010, 04:13:03 AM »
Hey d00dz

Whew I was scared I was out for good.

I am going to take it ez from now on and not post drunk.

I am turning over a new leaf.

I am even giving up hit and body by science and going volume all the way.

Just back from jog feel great.

Whats new?

big mistake giving up the hit.

but i wish you well.
175lbs by 31st July

dj181

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2010, 06:35:57 AM »
Tallgerman, if you really want to learn alot about HIT, then read the nautilus bulletins by Arthur Jones, as that is HIT at it's finest. And as a side not, Jones doesn't set some routine in stone, he just gives some very wise guidelines, and then leaves it up to the reader to apply these guidelines. Also, these bulletins don't push the trainee to use machines, they push the trainee to use resistance training to work his fucking ass off

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2010, 06:49:55 AM »
yes.

For what its worth HST is the new HIT.

Its HIT with the latest science added i.e. what arthur jones would have made his bulletin no:3 if he were still alive today.
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dj181

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2010, 07:30:34 AM »
Sorry man, but I gots to agree to disagree wit you on dat point! HST require frequent low-intensity work sets, and Mr. Jones would never agree wit dat! Yeah, the volume is low, which is good for HIT, but low-intensity work sets? NEVER! Remember, the backbone of Jones' theory is high-intensity of effort. My application of HIT sticks with performing each work set to failure, but I apply the other tenants a bit differently, coz I've found that is what works for me.

Fatpanda

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2010, 08:08:10 AM »
Sorry man, but I gots to agree to disagree wit you on dat point! HST require frequent low-intensity work sets, and Mr. Jones would never agree wit dat! Yeah, the volume is low, which is good for HIT, but low-intensity work sets? NEVER! Remember, the backbone of Jones' theory is high-intensity of effort. My application of HIT sticks with performing each work set to failure, but I apply the other tenants a bit differently, coz I've found that is what works for me.

technically jones theory was an increase in intensity in every workout is needed.

HST provides that by an increase in load every workout.

the science now proves that it is not the failure that stimulates hypertrophy but load. strength and size gains can come as long as the intensity keeps increasing.

as long as the load is increasing the muscle fibres are increasing in size to cope with the strain.

not to mention adhering to the increased protein synthesis response of 24-36 hours.

HST creator denies it is HIT like you, but i feel this is the natural course HIT would take if jones was still alive. As HIT was based on science of the time, and HST has simply applied the latest science to its original laws, with only a few changes. i.e. no need for failure, undulating loads, intensity as defined by load not failure.

jones said infrequent workouts but his original recommendations include 3x a week workouts - this is HST.
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dj181

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2010, 08:35:53 AM »
Good points man! But... Jones makes a HUGE point, many times in fact, that the last near impossible rep is the rep that triggers the growth mechanism into being activated. On a side note, in my humble opinion at least, PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD IS THE HOLY GRAIL OF SIZE AND STRENTGH INCREASES. And in my own individual case, it is acheived by a low volume of rather frequent training sessions (twice a week) per body part. Only 1 compound movement for 2 to 4 work sets per workout within the 4 to 6 rep range and finish the full workout within 30 min

Lundgren

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2010, 08:40:03 AM »
i actually like tallgerman as a poster
Same here, he's like the cheap 300 pound whore that will sleep with you when no one is around. There are days when nothing entertaining goes on I'd rather not leave here empty handed.

Fatpanda

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2010, 10:48:55 AM »
Good points man! But... Jones makes a HUGE point, many times in fact, that the last near impossible rep is the rep that triggers the growth mechanism into being activated. On a side note, in my humble opinion at least, PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD IS THE HOLY GRAIL OF SIZE AND STRENTGH INCREASES. And in my own individual case, it is acheived by a low volume of rather frequent training sessions (twice a week) per body part. Only 1 compound movement for 2 to 4 work sets per workout within the 4 to 6 rep range and finish the full workout within 30 min

you too, good discussion.

science has proved this last rep theory to be unnecessary, and in fact harmful in many ways.

primarily due to how it effects your ability to maximally load the muscle again 48 hours later to keep synthesis stimulated, due to excessive CNS drain.  long term this will limit your gains in strength and hence size.

many studies show no difference in results between going to failure and leaving a few in the tank - HST strives to ride this wave as long as possible, allowing the lifter to constantly increase load. For a while at least, eventually obviously cns lack of calories etc takes its toll and like most routines you reach a plateau, which HST deals with by a deconditioning period but that's another post/discussion  ;D
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dj181

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2010, 11:08:40 AM »
Where are these studies that have disproven that training to failure is not required? I'd like to see them. Anyways, the whole key is to find a training method that allows one to make continuos progress ie. allowing PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD to work it's magic ;D And for me, that method was described in my previous post.

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2010, 04:12:18 PM »
Where are these studies that have disproven that training to failure is not required? I'd like to see them. Anyways, the whole key is to find a training method that allows one to make continuos progress ie. allowing PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD to work it's magic ;D And for me, that method was described in my previous post.

i agree progressive overload is key 100%.

regarding not training to failure:


Differential effects of strength training leading to failure versus not to failure on hormonal responses, strength, and muscle power gains

The purpose of this study was to examine the efficacy of 11 wk of resistance training to failure vs. nonfailure, followed by an identical 5-wk peaking period of maximal strength and power training for both groups as well as to examine the underlying physiological changes in basal circulating anabolic and catabolic hormones. Forty-two physically active men were matched and then randomly assigned to either a training to failure (RF; n = 14), nonfailure (NRF; n = 15), or control groups (C; n = 13). Muscular and power testing and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of training (T3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1-repetition maximum bench press (23 and 23%) and parallel squat (22 and 23%), muscle power output of the arm (27 and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26 and 29%), and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel squat (66 and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. The peaking phase (T2 to T3) after NRF resulted in larger gains in muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF it resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation in resting serum total testosterone concentration. This investigation demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of NRF for improving strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains in local muscular endurance. Elevation in IGFBP-3 after resistance training may have been compensatory to accommodate the reduction in IGF-1 to preserve IGF availability.


Concurrent Endurance and Strength Training Not to Failure Optimizes Performance Gains
Purpose: The purpose of this study was to examine the efficacy
of 8 wk of resistance training to failure versus not to failure training regimens at both moderate and low volumes for increasing upperbody
strength and power as well as cardiovascular parameters into a combined resistance and endurance periodized training scheme.
Methods: Forty-three trained male rowers were matched and then randomly assigned to four groups that performed the same endurance
training but differed on their resistance training regimen: four exercises leading to repetition failure (4RF; n = 14), four exercises not
leading to failure (4NRF; n = 15), two exercises not to failure (2NRF; n = 6), and control group (C; n = 8). One-repetition maximum
strength and maximal muscle power output during prone bench pull (BP), average power during a 20-min all-out row test (W20min),
average row power output eliciting a blood lactate concentration of 4 mmolILj1 (W4mmolILj1), and power output in 10 maximal strokes
(W10strokes) were assessed before and after 8 wk of periodized training. Results: 4NRF group experienced larger gains in one-repetition
maximum strength and muscle power output (4.6% and 6.4%, respectively) in BP compared with both 4RF (2.1% and j1.2%) and
2NRF (0.6% and j0.6%). 4NRF and 2NRF groups experienced larger gains in W10strokes (3.6% and 5%) and in W20min (7.6% and 9%)
compared with those found after 4RF (j0.1% and 4.6%), whereas no significant differences between groups were observed in the
magnitude of changes in W4mmolILj1 (4NRF = 6.2%, 4RF = 5.3%, 2NRF = 6.8%, and C = 4.5%). Conclusions: An 8-wk linear
periodized concurrent strength and endurance training program using a moderate number of repetitions not to failure (4NRF group)
provides a favorable environment for achieving greater enhancements in strength, muscle power, and rowing performance when
compared with higher training volumes of repetitions to failure in experienced highly trained rowers.


Fatigue is not a necessary stimulus for strength gains during resistance training.
Folland JP, Irish CS, Roberts JC, Tarr JE, Jones DA.
Chelsea School Research Centre, University of Brighton, Eastbourne, UK. j.folland@bton.ac.uk
Abstract
BACKGROUND: High resistance training enhances muscular strength, and recent work has suggested an important role for metabolite accumulation in this process.
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the role of fatigue and metabolite accumulation in strength gains by comparing highly fatiguing and non-fatiguing isotonic training protocols.
METHODS: Twenty three healthy adults (18-29 years of age; eight women) were assigned to either a high fatigue protocol (HF: four sets of 10 repetitions with 30 seconds rest between sets) to maximise metabolic stress or a low fatigue protocol (LF: 40 repetitions with 30 seconds between each repetition) to minimise changes. Subjects lifted on average 73% of their 1 repetition maximum through the full range of knee extension with both legs, three times a week. Quadriceps isometric strength of each leg was measured at a knee joint angle of 1.57 rad (90 degrees ), and a Cybex 340 isokinetic dynamometer was used to measure the angle-torque and torque-velocity relations of the non-dominant leg.
RESULTS: At the mid-point of the training, the HF group had 50% greater gains in isometric strength, although this was not significant (4.5 weeks: HF, 13.3 (4.4)%; LF, 8.9 (3.6)%). This rate of increase was not sustained by the HF group, and after nine weeks of training all the strength measurements showed similar improvements for both groups (isometric strength: HF, 18.2 (3.9)%; LF, 14.5 (4.0)%). The strength gains were limited to the longer muscle lengths despite training over the full range of movement.
CONCLUSIONS: Fatigue and metabolite accumulation do not appear to be critical stimuli for strength gain, and resistance training can be effective without the severe discomfort and acute physical effort associated with fatiguing contractions.


Fatigue contributes to the strength training stimulus.
Rooney KJ, Herbert RD, Balnave RJ.
School of Physiotherapy, University of Sydney, Australia.
Abstract
To investigate the role of fatigue in strength training, strength increases produced by a training protocol in which subjects rested between contractions were compared with those produced when subjects did not rest. Forty-two healthy subjects were randomly allocated to either a no-rest group, a rest group, or a control group. Subjects in the two training groups trained their elbow flexor muscles by lifting a 6RM weight 6-10 times on 3 d each week for 6 wk. Subjects in the no-rest group performed repeated lifts without resting, whereas subjects in the rest group rested for 30 s between lifts. Both training groups performed the same number of lifts at the same relative intensity. The control group did not train. Subjects who trained without rests experienced significantly greater mean increases in dynamic strength (56.3% +/- 6.8% (SD)) than subjects who trained with rests (41.2% +/- 6.6%), and both training groups experienced significantly greater mean increases in dynamic strength than the control group (19.7% +/- 6.6%). It was concluded that greater short-term strength increases are achieved when subjects are required to lift training weights without resting. These findings suggest that processes associated with fatigue contribute to the strength training stimulus.


in short studies show that failure is a endurance/energy demand not a muscular tension demand. i.e. the muscle mostly fails because of a lack of atp/glycogen in the muscle or basic fatigue, not because the fibres have worn down/been worked too hard etc

load is the key.
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tallgerman

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2010, 06:12:08 PM »
The hardest part about being back is having to watch myself and not let any racist ro political stuff get outa hand.

self control is key

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Re: tallgerman welcome back back thread
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2010, 04:09:09 AM »
The hardest part about being back is having to watch myself and not let any racist ro political stuff get outa hand.

self control is key

Plus we get awesome training advices from that legend "Fat Panda"  :o    :o