Author Topic: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again  (Read 18953 times)

Emmortal

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #100 on: November 29, 2010, 03:43:39 PM »
Why hasn't Mr King gone on the offense of our own papers that published this such as the NYT?  Are they now going to be a terrorist organization as well?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #101 on: November 29, 2010, 03:45:48 PM »
Because if it was not nyt it would be someone else. 

They need to figure out who gave this to wikileaks in the first place and drop the hammer. 

Emmortal

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #102 on: November 29, 2010, 03:54:08 PM »
Because if it was not nyt it would be someone else. 

They need to figure out who gave this to wikileaks in the first place and drop the hammer. 

The point is, Wikileaks didn't obtain the documents, as in they did not enter US computer systems illegally, they just published what was received from their source.  So calling for them to be thrown in the terrorist group is just political grandstanding at best.  If they are labeled terrorists, so should every single news outlet the published the documents.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #103 on: November 29, 2010, 03:57:51 PM »
I meant the guy in the service who gave the materials to wikileaks is mostly to blame. 

Emmortal

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #104 on: November 29, 2010, 04:32:27 PM »
I meant the guy in the service who gave the materials to wikileaks is mostly to blame. 

Obviously, but I'm not talking about him.

Lundgren

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #105 on: November 29, 2010, 05:29:26 PM »
Like I said in the other thread (or was it this one, not sure), anyone who didn't think that the entire Middle East despises Iran and wants them destroyed is a fool.

It's cool that Saudi Arabia expects us to fight their battles, though. Then again, the Arab oil lobby is ridiculously powerful.

Funny that it's other Muslims who seem to be taking the biggest warmonger approach to Iran and not the big bad Americans/Israel, though.
Your simlifying shit. It ain't simple if you mean the goverments somewhat, this american obsession with trying to find a simple way to group 300 million people together is getting old. Sure alot of the governments are anti Iranian, because their a power house, just like canada/america get annoyed with america. It's not a surprise regardless this shit won't change shit.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #106 on: November 29, 2010, 06:42:56 PM »
China 'scared to death' of Pelosi: leaked cable
Nov 29 07:18 PM US/Eastern



China was "scared to death" over a visit by US Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who is outspoken on human rights, and rejected her request to visit to Tibet, according to files leaked Monday.

A top diplomat at the US embassy in Beijing said he asked China to consider letting Pelosi go to Tibet during her May 2009 visit to China, according to a cable obtained by whistleblower site WikiLeaks.

Vice Foreign Minister He Yafei responded that China could not arrange the trip due to Pelosi's "tight schedule," according to the cable reprinted by Britain's Guardian newspaper.

The Chinese ambassador in Kazakhstan was blunter, telling his US counterpart over an expansive dinner that Beijing was "fearful" over Pelosi's visit.

"She had the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) scared to death on the eve of her visit," Ambassador Cheng Guoping was quoted as saying in the classified memo by US Ambassador Richard Hoagland.

Pelosi, whose congressional district includes San Francisco's Chinatown, is a vocal supporter of Chinese democracy activists and Tibet's exiled spiritual leader the Dalai Lama.

Her visit last year came just a week before the 20th anniversary of China's crackdown on student protests in Tiananmen Square. On a previous trip, Pelosi unfurled a banner in Tiananmen Square in remembrance of those killed.

But Pelosi's last trip went off without incident as she mostly focused on cooperation between China and the United States in fighting climate change.

Pelosi is set to lose the speaker's gavel in January after her Democratic Party suffered a major election defeat earlier this month and lost control of the House of Representatives.

In one of her last trips, Pelosi will head to Oslo for Chinese activist Liu Xiaobo's Nobel Peace Prize ceremony, according to the Nobel Institute.




Soul Crusher

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #107 on: November 29, 2010, 06:47:46 PM »
Beijing 'Ready To Abandon North Korea'
Sky News ^


10:32pm UK, Monday November 29, 2010

Katie Cassidy, Sky News Online

China is ready to distance itself from North Korea and accept reunification with the South, according to more leaked diplomatic documents.

Amid the cables obtained by WikiLeaks are details about Beijing's frustration with its Communist neighbour.

The Guardian, which is one of the newspapers given direct access to the leaked information, reports senior Chinese officials regard Pyongyang as a "spoiled child".

One senior Chinese diplomat is said to have told an American ambassador that younger generation Communist party leaders no longer regarded North Korea as a useful or reliable ally.

Furthermore, Beijing anticipates the regime will collapse after the death of current leader Kim Jong-Il.

Sky's security editor Sam Kiley said the revelation was sensational.

"Up until now WikiLeaks has told us things we could assume - but this is explosive," he said.

"This is Chinese officials talking to American diplomats, describing North Korea - a close ally that the Chinese have been supporting for decades and supported in a war with the UN - as a 'spoilt child'.

"They also refer to North Korea's nuclear capability as potentially destabilising to world peace.

"This effectively puts the Chinese very much in the American camp in terms of their analysis, at least.

"It is an enormous shift from China's public position, which has supported North Korea, to their private position in talks with American officials


(Excerpt) Read more at news.sky.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Emmortal

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #108 on: November 29, 2010, 06:48:48 PM »
Funny how a relative of mine just got back from Tibet 2 weeks ago yet they wouldn't let her in.  Obvious cat is obvious.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #109 on: November 29, 2010, 06:58:18 PM »
Funny how a relative of mine just got back from Tibet 2 weeks ago yet they wouldn't let her in.  Obvious cat is obvious.

Why?  I hate that which too.  I would get a crucifix and string of garlic and holy water if she ever came near me. 

Lundgren

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #110 on: November 29, 2010, 07:08:00 PM »
Beijing 'Ready To Abandon North Korea'
Sky News ^


10:32pm UK, Monday November 29, 2010

Katie Cassidy, Sky News Online

China is ready to distance itself from North Korea and accept reunification with the South, according to more leaked diplomatic documents.

Amid the cables obtained by WikiLeaks are details about Beijing's frustration with its Communist neighbour.

The Guardian, which is one of the newspapers given direct access to the leaked information, reports senior Chinese officials regard Pyongyang as a "spoiled child".

One senior Chinese diplomat is said to have told an American ambassador that younger generation Communist party leaders no longer regarded North Korea as a useful or reliable ally.

Furthermore, Beijing anticipates the regime will collapse after the death of current leader Kim Jong-Il.

Sky's security editor Sam Kiley said the revelation was sensational.

"Up until now WikiLeaks has told us things we could assume - but this is explosive," he said.

"This is Chinese officials talking to American diplomats, describing North Korea - a close ally that the Chinese have been supporting for decades and supported in a war with the UN - as a 'spoilt child'.

"They also refer to North Korea's nuclear capability as potentially destabilising to world peace.

"This effectively puts the Chinese very much in the American camp in terms of their analysis, at least.

"It is an enormous shift from China's public position, which has supported North Korea, to their private position in talks with American officials


(Excerpt) Read more at news.sky.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lol and the amateur assertions begin. We all know china ain't got a shred of interest in north korea, the only reason they defend them is to avoid shit from failing apart. The whole goings on last week are part of the downfall of the dynasty, anyone aside from american's knows that revolutions are fucking bad they breed instabilty(money wise), and shove a unwanted load of garbage onto it's neighbours.

China's role will be to maintain stability in NK by supporting whoever comes out of the military/dynasty best able to maintain stability, their ability to do this, is nullified, if they go alongside the west, in a full out disapproval on all things north Korean. Chinese get shit done and they don't ask for no fucking names/rights details etc.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #111 on: November 30, 2010, 03:42:35 PM »
Skip to comments.

Wikileaks: US Never Expected Ratzinger Elected as Pope
Custos Fidei ^ | November 30, 2010






Wikileaks information has been disclosed by Rome Reports that the U.S. intelligence services were completely caught off guard and surprised at the election of then Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI.

U.S. intelligence was expecting a Latin American as the next pope, and predicted that then Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger would have lost in the first round voting.

The rest from Father Zuhlsdorf:

Before the election the staff of the US embassy to the Holy See sent speculations to Washington about the one to be elected.

“The first factor will be age, the cardinals will seek someone who is neither too young nor too old, because they don’t want to have another funeral and conclave quickly” but “they also want to avoid having a long pontificate like that of John Paul II.”  Furthermore, “it will be a person in reasonably good health”.  Another element will be “linguistic ability” and he will have to know Italian.


Yes, folks, this is penetrating analysis from the US embassy to the Holy See.

Going on… they opined that it would be a Latin American cardinal.  Perhaps they were glued to CNN.  Had they been listening to FoxNews and people like me (was a contributor at the time) they would have gotten it right.  But I digress.

On the day of the election itself, there was a cable to Washington which pooh-poohed the possible election of Ratzinger.  Apparently the election shocked them.  They were also bamboolzed by media reports that Ratzinger was an “autocratic despot”.  That’s what you get when your remote TV control is stuck on CNN and you hang only with liberal clergy in Rome.  On the other hand, when one of them high up in the embassy met Cardinal Ratzinger  he was described as “surprisingly humble, spiritual and easy to deal with”.

There were speculations about a Rome/Germany axis for the Church.  Lord… did they really have people that dense working in the US embassy back then?  And that was during an administration friendly toward the Holy See.

On 12 May 2005 there was the aforementioned 7 page document “Benedict XVI: Looking Ahead to the New Pontificate” which projected what was going to happen with an “identikit” of the new Pope.  It suggested that this Pope would act in continuity with his predecessor.  It included the line: “in time of crisis the Church finds refuge in European identity.  They also suggested that this new Pope would battle secularism in the USA and the rest of the West, turning his attention also to developing nations, in particular Latin America were there are many disappointed Catholics because a Latin American Pope wasn’t elected.

From what I can glean from the article in La Stampa, the folks in the US embassy to the Holy See were mired in cliches and working from preconceptions which blinded them to the facts in front of their faces before the election.   As a personal aside: about a year before the death of John Paul, I made a bet with another journalist about who would be elected… not whom we wanted to see elected, but whom we thought actually would be.  We could choose three in order of likelihood.  My choice of Ratzinger at the top of the list brought out a laugh of incredulity.  But to be fair I laughed also at his choice of Cardinal Danneels.  That anecdote serves to show something of the mindset of a lot of people floating close to the center of things, those most “in the know” and involved in speculation (a Vatican watcher obsession).

It seems to me that the Catholic Church is fairly important.  The US State Department would do well to put competent, serious people who really understand the workings of the Church in their embassy to the Holy See.

(see Father Z)

(Cross-posted at The American Catholic)


Soul Crusher

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #112 on: December 01, 2010, 09:57:56 AM »
Pakistan 'privately approved' US drone strikes while publicly condemning them: Wikileaks
 Source: ANI


The Pakistan government privately approved US drone strikes while publicly condemning the CIA's covert raids, according to diplomatic cables posted whistle-blower website Wikileaks.

=snip=

A second cable describes the US envoy's 2008 meeting with Pakistan Prime Minister Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani, in which he brushed aside the concerns about the use of Predator drones against targets in the tribal areas, and gave an insight into how he would deny any co-operation.

"I don't care if they do it as long as they get the right people. We'll protest in the National Assembly and then ignore it," he told Patterson.

The Pakistani government however dismissed the Wikileaks claims, with a spokesman for Gilani saying, "Our Prime Minister has made a very clear statement questioning the authenticity of these documents. There's nothing more to say."

Read more: http://www.karachinews.net/story/714338
 
 

Fury

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #113 on: December 01, 2010, 10:01:06 AM »
Pakistan 'privately approved' US drone strikes while publicly condemning them: Wikileaks
 Source: ANI


The Pakistan government privately approved US drone strikes while publicly condemning the CIA's covert raids, according to diplomatic cables posted whistle-blower website Wikileaks.

=snip=

A second cable describes the US envoy's 2008 meeting with Pakistan Prime Minister Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani, in which he brushed aside the concerns about the use of Predator drones against targets in the tribal areas, and gave an insight into how he would deny any co-operation.

"I don't care if they do it as long as they get the right people. We'll protest in the National Assembly and then ignore it," he told Patterson.

The Pakistani government however dismissed the Wikileaks claims, with a spokesman for Gilani saying, "Our Prime Minister has made a very clear statement questioning the authenticity of these documents. There's nothing more to say."

Read more: http://www.karachinews.net/story/714338
 
 


I.e. people we're not actively financing and controlling aka the Taliban/Al Qaeda.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #114 on: December 01, 2010, 07:40:22 PM »
Obama and GOPers Worked Together to Kill Bush Torture Probe
A leaked cable shows that when Spain considered a criminal case against ex-Bush officials, Obama and Republicans got really bipartisan.
By David Corn | Wed Dec. 1, 2010 2:47 PM PST


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In its first months in office, the Obama administration sought to protect Bush administration officials facing criminal investigation overseas for their involvement in establishing policies the that governed interrogations of detained terrorist suspects. A "confidential" April 17, 2009, cable [1] sent from the US embassy in Madrid to the State Department—one of the 251,287 cables obtained by WikiLeaks—details how the Obama administration, working with Republicans, leaned on Spain to derail this potential prosecution.

The previous month, a Spanish human rights group called the Association for the Dignity of Spanish Prisoners had requested that Spain's National Court indict six former Bush officials for, as the cable describes it, "creating a legal framework that allegedly permitted torture." The six were former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales; David Addington, former chief of staff and legal adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney; William Haynes, the Pentagon's former general counsel; Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense for policy; Jay Bybee, former head of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel; and John Yoo, a former official in the Office of Legal Counsel. The human rights group contended that Spain had a duty to open an investigation under the nation's "universal jurisdiction" law, which permits its legal system to prosecute overseas human rights crimes involving Spanish citizens and residents. Five Guantanamo detainees, the group maintained, fit that criteria.

Soon after the request was made, the US embassy in Madrid began tracking the matter. On April 1, embassy officials spoke with chief prosecutor Javier Zaragoza, who indicated that he was not pleased to have been handed this case, but he believed that the complaint appeared to be well-documented and he'd have to pursue it. Around that time, the acting deputy chief of the US embassy talked to the chief of staff for Spain's foreign minister and a senior official in the Spanish Ministry of Justice to convey, as the cable says, "that this was a very serious matter for the USG." The two Spaniards "expressed their concern at the case but stressed the independence of the Spanish judiciary."

Two weeks later, Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.) and the embassy's charge d'affaires "raised the issue" with another official at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The next day, Zaragoza informed the US embassy that the complaint might not be legally sound. He noted he would ask Cándido Conde-Pumpido, Spain's attorney general, to review whether Spain had jurisdiction.

On April 15, Sen. Mel Martinez (R-Fla.), who'd recently been chairman of the Republican Party, and the US embassy's charge d'affaires met with the acting Spanish foreign minister, Angel Lossada. The Americans, according to this cable, "underscored that the prosecutions would not be understood or accepted in the US and would have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship" between Spain and the United States. Here was a former head of the GOP and a representative of a new Democratic administration (headed by a president who had decried the Bush-Cheney administration's use of torture) jointly applying pressure on Spain to kill the investigation of the former Bush officials. Lossada replied that the independence of the Spanish judiciary had to be respected, but he added that the government would send a message to the attorney general that it did not favor prosecuting this case.

The next day, April 16, 2009, Attorney General Conde-Pumpido publicly declared that he would not support the criminal complaint, calling it "fraudulent" and political. If the Bush officials had acted criminally, he said, then a case should be filed in the United States. On April 17, the prosecutors of the National Court filed a report [2] asking that complaint be discontinued. In the April 17 cable, the American embassy in Madrid claimed some credit for Conde-Pumpido's opposition, noting that "Conde-Pumpido's public announcement follows outreach to [Government of Spain] officials to raise USG deep concerns on the implications of this case."

Still, this did not end the matter. It would still be up to investigating Judge Baltasar Garzón [3]—a world-renowned jurist who had initiated previous prosecutions of war crimes and had publicly said that former President George W. Bush ought to be tried for war crimes—to decide whether to pursue the case against the six former Bush officials. That June—coincidentally or not—the Spanish Parliament passed legislation narrowing the use of "universal jurisdiction." Still, in September 2009, Judge Garzón pushed ahead with the case [4].

The case eventually came to be overseen by another judge who last spring asked the parties behind the complaint to explain why the investigation should continue. Several human rights groups filed a brief [2] urging this judge to keep the case alive, citing the Obama administration's failure to prosecute the Bush officials. Since then, there's been no action. The Obama administration essentially got what it wanted. The case of the Bush Six went away.

Back when it seemed that this case could become a major international issue, during an April 14, 2009, White House briefing, I asked press secretary Robert Gibbs if the Obama administration would cooperate with any request from the Spaniards for information and documents related to the Bush Six. He said [5], "I don't want to get involved in hypotheticals." What he didn't disclose was that the Obama administration, working with Republicans, was actively pressuring the Spaniards to drop the investigation. Those efforts apparently paid off, and, as this WikiLeaks-released cable shows, Gonzales, Haynes, Feith, Bybee, Addington, and Yoo owed Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton thank-you notes.
..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source URL: http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/12/wikileaks-cable-obama-quashed-torture-investigation
Links:
[1] http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2009/04/09MADRID392.html
[2] http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/current-cases/spanish-investigation-us-torture
[3] http://motherjones.com/politics/2004/03/longest-arm-law
[4] http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/08/spanish-judge-resumes-torture-case-against-six-senior-bush-lawyers/
[5] http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/04/white-house-joking-about-torture-investigation


Soul Crusher

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The True Adonis

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #116 on: December 01, 2010, 08:35:26 PM »
meltdown

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/01/obama-bush-torture-probe_n_790804.html#comments


I hope you agree now that Wikileaks and anyone involved with them are true patriots.  How else would we have known about any of this?  I hope more people read and understand everything they continue to put out.  Hopefully, this will shed some light on who to vote for and who not to in the future.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #117 on: December 01, 2010, 08:38:10 PM »
I hope you agree now that Wikileaks and anyone involved with them are true patriots.  How else would we have known about any of this?  I hope more people read and understand everything they continue to put out.  Hopefully, this will shed some light on who to vote for and who not to in the future.



What is your take on this story?

The True Adonis

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #118 on: December 01, 2010, 08:41:38 PM »
What is your take on this story?
I knew about this story as Keith hit Obama EXTRA hard on it over a year ago.  I think we should let Spain prosecute them, I also think we should prosecute them as well.

Keith did a wonderful job calling Obama out in April of 2009.


Benny B

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #119 on: December 01, 2010, 08:44:00 PM »
I meant the guy in the service who gave the materials to wikileaks is mostly to blame. 
So you agree that Obama is right to put that soldier on trial, PB?
!

Soul Crusher

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Benny B

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #122 on: December 01, 2010, 08:53:46 PM »
yes

ok, so we have now established that you do not want Obama "to fail at every single thing."  :D Congrats on your advancement from idiot to moron on the IQ scale.
!

Soul Crusher

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #123 on: December 02, 2010, 07:27:39 AM »
WikiLeaks Cable: Venezuela’s medical system in disarray
Washington Times - Water Cooler ^ | 12/2/10 | Kerry Picket




Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez lauded WikiLeaks founder Julian Assnage as a "brave man" according to El Universal. Mr. Chavez stated on his state-run TV network VTV:

"The empire stood naked. I do not know what the United States is going to do. Well, they do not care about this. But how many things have been disclosed! They disrespect their allies with all these spying activities!” Mr. Chavez may be referring to a WikiLeaks cable describing his country's health care system.

A WikiLeaks cable dated in December of 2009 and released on Sunday describes Venezuela’s medical system in disarray. (All bolding below is mine)

According to the document, Venezuelan doctors accused their government of “politicizing health care at the expense of the health of Venezuelans."


(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Wiki Leaks Blows the Lid off Again
« Reply #124 on: December 05, 2010, 06:30:13 AM »
WikiLeaks cables: Saudi Arabia rated a bigger threat to Iraqi stability than Iran 
 Edited on Sun Dec-05-10 07:33 AM by Turborama
Source: The Guardian


Baghdad says it can contain influence of Shia neighbour, unlike powerful Gulf state that wants a return to Sunni dominance

Simon Tisdall
Sunday December 05 2010 12.00 GMT -

Iraqi government officials see Saudi Arabia, not Iran, as the biggest threat to the integrity and cohesion of their fledgling democratic state, leaked US state department cables reveal.

The Iraqi concerns, analysed in a dispatch sent from the US embassy in Baghdad by then ambassador Christopher Hill in September 2009, represent a fundamental divergence from the American and British view of Iran as arch-predator in Iraq.

"Iraq views relations with Saudi Arabia as among its most challenging given Riyadh's money, deeply ingrained anti-Shia attitudes and (Saudi) suspicions that a Shia-led Iraq will inevitably further Iranian regional influence," Hill writes. "Iraqi contacts assess that the Saudi goal (and that of most other Sunni Arab states, to varying degrees) is to enhance Sunni influence, dilute Shia dominance and promote the formation of a weak and fractured Iraqi government."

Hill's unexpected assessment flies in the face of the conventional wisdom that Iranian activities, overt and covert, are the biggest obstacle to Iraq's development.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-c...