Author Topic: Health risks, what's the real deal?  (Read 6305 times)

Firemuscle

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Health risks, what's the real deal?
« on: December 01, 2010, 05:42:13 PM »
 This might be a really basic question, but I scrolled through a lot of the topics here and couldn't find it addressed.

 I'm curious what the opinion on this board is about the health risks of using gear.

 I've been researching a lot again, and it's really hard to find solid info that's not totally biased. Some sites say that heart problems, high cholesterol and gyno are very, very common. And other sites totally downplay these side effects and say it's mostly media hype.

 When you google "Steroids" or "Steroids information", a LOT of really shitty websites come up for sure. Most of them trying to sell you some kind of gimmick.

 It seems that many sources of information don't take dosages and specific compounds into consideration either. They just say "Steroids do this.... Steroids do that..." in a totally overgeneralized fashion. But surely the specific compounds you use and the dosages would have radically different effects.

 So, if a guy does mild cycles of steroids, like 500mg test and a little dbol. What do you think are the real chances of running into these problems? I'm talking about a stack of maybe 2 or 3 compounds in fairly mild dosages.

 Heart problems
 Gyno
 Hig blood pressure
 Baldness
 etc.

 Any of you guys had problems with these?

 Thanks.

makaveli25

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2010, 07:36:39 PM »
I think everyone has experinced some kind of sides from their cycles. Most of the sides will go away once you stop your cycle. Only problem is cycles get longer and longer and time off tends to get shorter and shorter. The big risks are high blood pressure. If you have high blood pressure for a long time it can develop into serious hypertension and do damage to the heart. You want to make sure you keep that in check. Things that aromatize heavily will cause water retention high blood pressure.

My first cycle I got cyctic acne on my back. This was really nasty. I was using 2-3 sustanon amps a week and a shit load of good dbol. It took almost a half of a year to clear up. I mega dosed panthoiec acid to get rid of it. After that cycle I didn't get anymore bacne. Not sure why it happend on my first cycle only.

High blood pressure (Hawthorne berry, fish oil, aspirin, cardio lots of water)
Acne (lots of showers, a good soap for acne with long brush to get your back, panthoiec acid)
High cholesterol ( cycle your orals, fish oil, good diet)
Balding (shave your head, look for compounds that don't cause shedding)

tstmaniac

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2010, 07:37:08 PM »
Fucked up cholesterol, high blood pressure are the two most dangerous side effects IMO...with a shitload more weight on your frame it makes the heart work harder..risks for heart disease definitely increase after juicing for several years..don't abuse orals...impotence is a possibility but rare...get blood work done on and off cycle to monitor your shit and you'll be fine.

makaveli25

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2010, 07:37:56 PM »
IF you do one or two cycles a year and you are pretty responsible I honestly think you can take good care of your health and look great. Most of the people I see running into problems are the people that run 25 plus week cycles cruis inbetween and mega dose.

makaveli25

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2010, 07:39:10 PM »
Fucked up cholesterol, high blood pressure are the two most dangerous side effects IMO...with a shitload more weight on your frame it makes the heart work harder..risks for heart disease definitely increase after juicing for several years..don't abuse orals...impotence is a possibility but rare...get blood work done on and off cycle to monitor your shit and you'll be fine.

How long does it take cholesterol to go back to a good number after cycle? What are ways to get it back to normal?

tstmaniac

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2010, 11:15:38 PM »
Depends on the person but my cholesterol goes back to perfect about four weeks after I come off...

Overload

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2010, 08:32:27 AM »
Everyone is different, but the health risks are quite real. I downplay a lot of the media hype, but the bottom line is that taking AAS for an extended period of time "can" harm you permanently. Notice i used the word "can".

Without going into a 500 word essay, in short they are not as bad for you as many have led you to believe, but all the issues you mentioned are real and very common. The thing is, most of the health related issues can be mitigated by proper blood work and knowing when to come off.

When i was on massive amounts of AAS, my blood work was actually pretty normal, but i do not consider myself the rule, i have always led a somewhat healthy lifestyle. I can say that any values that were out of range, came back to within range after i came off all the AAS. My only lasting side effect from using AAS for over 7 years is a lot of body hair. I never once had an itchy nipple and i still have all my hair. I did have acne problems "at times" but i was using massive dosages. Typically the sides are collinear to the dosage.

You could run 500mg Test with some dbol here and there for years without any serious health issues, it is when you get into the higher doses that the strain on your internal organs begins to cause problems, but even then it can take years to see any serious problems. I know guys who have been on for over 10 years straight and are perfectly healthy. I only know one person who was directly injured by taking AAS, but that was an infection, which is a bit different. Most of the bodybuilders and powerlifters i know have only had issues with stimulants, rec drugs and diuretics, not AAS directly.

The problem that always arises is, you may start off taking 500mg, but one day you will want more and before you know it you are running 1500mg Test and 600mg Deca year round like i did. It is almost like saying "only one cycle", we all know sooner or later you will keep going. If you have good self control you will do well. If you lack self control i would not touch AAS.



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MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2010, 01:36:09 PM »
Bottomline is guys think steroids are the magic fucking pill.  Look like everything in life more you reach for the more you have to lose.  Do you see guys talking about using 5mg of dbol a day with 200mg of testosterone a week? Fuck no!  Why?  Because most guys jump to steroids in the first place because they don't have the time or patience to train naturally or don't really know how too.  There are dumbshits out there that will argue my  point all day long but I can tell you right now there is absolutely no reason for most guys to go over 500mg-600mgs a week of ANYTHING let alone multiple compounds and an average dose of say 10-20mgs of dbol a day.  There is not one fucking reason why any guy in his 20s needs to be cycling tren, test, eq and two or three orals at at ime.  It's fucking stupid and most guys can barely make gains naturally and are even worse off after doing a cycle and enter a vicious cycle because their bodies are all fucking out of wack.  I learned this without having to experience much pain. 

In the past year that I've been natural I said fuck it.  I was going to listen to my body.  I train twice every 7-10 days.  I've made more gains this past year than I have naturally ever before.  I'm not going to say I've gained more than I would have juiced but I'm gaining at a rate that is quite acceptable to me and my next cycle is going to be 500mg of test and an oral and that's it.  RECOVERY is so important.  And most guys do everything they can to sabotage it.  I see so many guys in the gym training 5 days a week high volume, high intensity, etc.  NEVER letting their body recover.  I'd say 3/4 of all the 20 year olds in the gym are juiced up to their eyeballs becausse most are overtrained and don't even realize it.  They don't have the mental capacity and discipline to stay home and rest.  They think more is better and they will shrink the minute they take an extra day off or god forbid a week off.  More is not necessarily better.  If you can't grow off 500mg a week of test you have no clue what the fuck you're doing and should take up golf. 

I see average joes on various boards bragging about all the grams of shit they take.....most look like shit too.  Sure they are big and bloated but the mintue they come off the fucking shrink and lose size because most of it is acquired so easily and without much work....i.e. it's not long lasting muscle.  Just a lot fo bloat and fat.  That is why young guys fuck themselves up.  They use way too much too soon and burn themselves out.  And the worst part is they fuck themselves up so bad they can't even train naturally anymore because their bodies are all fucked up. 

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2010, 01:42:01 PM »
All these guys that say you can't grow off 200-500mgs a week of test couldn't grow a fucking pimple naturally anyways.  And there are plenty of these idiots on the boards.  Then you've got the other side of the coin......the idiot naturals guys who hate anything that they can't buy at their local GNC.....complaining why they still look like shit year after year hating on all the juicers who's physiques they envy.  A lot of getbiggers seem to fall into either or category.  The best ground as always is the middle ground.....everything in moderation. 


makaveli25

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2010, 01:45:10 PM »
I remeber the first cycle I did I was pretty damn skinny like 175-180. I was playing college football at the time. The summer going into my senoir year I ran sustanon and dbol I came back to school jacked people didn't recognize me. Well I tried to run my pct half way during the season boy was I in for a rude awakening. I had all the clomid nolva and hcg in the world but I really didn't know what I was doing with it. I shut my balls down so bad. I was takeing high doses of clomid and a ton of nolva trying to get things working again. It turned me into a little bitch! I got all the bad sides from the clomid. At the time I was having horrible problems with my girlfriend she found out I cheated on her and she was mindfucking me so bad I wanted to kill her then myself. I thought I was gonna be impotent and sterile for the rest of my life. Boy I was miserable. I'm glad I made it through those rough times. I was also dabbling with addictive rec drugs it was really dangerous. I have learned a lot from those experinces!

Emmortal

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2010, 04:28:29 PM »
All these guys that say you can't grow off 200-500mgs a week of test couldn't grow a fucking pimple naturally anyways.  And there are plenty of these idiots on the boards.  Then you've got the other side of the coin......the idiot naturals guys who hate anything that they can't buy at their local GNC.....complaining why they still look like shit year after year hating on all the juicers who's physiques they envy.  A lot of getbiggers seem to fall into either or category.  The best ground as always is the middle ground.....everything in moderation. 



I always grow just fine when I'm cruising on 300mg of test a week.  Granted, I definitely don't see the dramatic changes I do while on cycle, especially body composition, but I can still build muscle perfectly fine.  And generally I agree, but it just depends on what your goals are.  Moderation is definitely key if you never plan to step on stage.

makaveli25

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2010, 04:42:52 PM »
I always grow just fine when I'm cruising on 300mg of test a week.  Granted, I definitely don't see the dramatic changes I do while on cycle, especially body composition, but I can still build muscle perfectly fine.  And generally I agree, but it just depends on what your goals are.  Moderation is definitely key if you never plan to step on stage.

Is there your usual cruising dose? My last cycle was prop at 300mg ew and primo 300mg ew. I was getting nice gains and actually getting some bloat with 300mg of prop. Does it effect your blood work in any abnormal way?

Arnold jr

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2010, 08:44:19 PM »
The talk about the higher doses and the risk involved, some good points made. My opinion, yes, there is a need for the higher dosed cycles but I agree, most have no business. It all boils down to what you're trying to do, what you're trying to accomplish and how that risk vs. reward is viewed in your life.

I wrote this a couple years ago, sums it up IMO:

http://www.probodybuilding.com/articles/probodybuilding-editorials/the-truth.php

Anna Recksiek

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2010, 01:22:42 PM »
I've been researching this for about 2 years now and have come to
these conclusions.

Assume you get every side you've listed.
Is 10 - 20 lbs of muscle worth it?

Assume you get none of the sides.
Are you young enough to recover your nuts?
Are you willing to go through feeling like shit once you crash off the sauce?

I am natural and probably big enough but would like to try before it's too late
but keep asking myself is it worth it?

You have to answer that for yourself - are the sides listed or potentially shutting your
natural test down for good (or at least lowering your natty levels and needing hrt for the rest of your life)
worth it?

Arnold jr

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2010, 01:35:29 PM »
I've been researching this for about 2 years now and have come to
these conclusions.

Assume you get every side you've listed.
Is 10 - 20 lbs of muscle worth it?

Assume you get none of the sides.
Are you young enough to recover your nuts?
Are you willing to go through feeling like shit once you crash off the sauce?

I am natural and probably big enough but would like to try before it's too late
but keep asking myself is it worth it?

You have to answer that for yourself - are the sides listed or potentially shutting your
natural test down for good (or at least lowering your natty levels and needing hrt for the rest of your life)
worth it?


The odds of shutting down your natural test production is very slim. Sure, it's going to be lower when you come off, even with a good PCT it can take a full year to get back to normal levels for a lot of guys...PCT does not put you back to normal like a lot of people think, but you will recover...how much you recover can also have a lot to do with age and believe it or not, your diet...eating well and taking care of yourself can do a lot for you.

Anna Recksiek

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2010, 01:41:42 PM »
I liked your write up in the link above.
At what age do you think is too old to recover well?
I realize dose and cycle length also are factors but
assuming a 6-8 week test only @ 500 mg per week.

Overload

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2010, 02:03:36 PM »
The odds of shutting down your natural test production is very slim. Sure, it's going to be lower when you come off, even with a good PCT it can take a full year to get back to normal levels for a lot of guys...PCT does not put you back to normal like a lot of people think, but you will recover...how much you recover can also have a lot to do with age and believe it or not, your diet...eating well and taking care of yourself can do a lot for you.

True statement.

I was on AAS for over 3 years straight and it took about 8 months for my natural test to kick back in after I came off everything. I have been clean for almost 3 years now and my test levels are within range, no problems with anything else.


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Luolamies

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2010, 05:24:27 PM »
5 months straight ON test and a perfect blood panel, needless to say the media and public healthcare systems have blown the side effects way out of proportion and have simply been lying.
TEST+DECA+DBOL=BIG

tstmaniac

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2010, 06:16:25 PM »
What's ur cholesterol, hemoglobin, and liver enzymes at? How much are you taking

Arnold jr

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2010, 06:32:34 PM »
5 months straight ON test and a perfect blood panel, needless to say the media and public healthcare systems have blown the side effects way out of proportion and have simply been lying.

I've run almost solid for three years in the past. In that 3yr period I came off for 8wks once and two 6wk breaks, the rest of the 150+ wks was "On" sometimes at cruising doses and sometimes at very high doses.

In that time, never had BP issues, never had liver issues, never had my cholesterol shoot up out of control, my good levels did dip down at one point but i corrected it with diet.

The worse side effects in that 3 yr period, some low libido issues at some points but nothing major, nothing that wasn't correctable.

flinstones1

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2010, 08:32:59 AM »
I remeber the first cycle I did I was pretty damn skinny like 175-180. I was playing college football at the time. The summer going into my senoir year I ran sustanon and dbol I came back to school jacked people didn't recognize me. Well I tried to run my pct half way during the season boy was I in for a rude awakening. I had all the clomid nolva and hcg in the world but I really didn't know what I was doing with it. I shut my balls down so bad. I was takeing high doses of clomid and a ton of nolva trying to get things working again. It turned me into a little bitch! I got all the bad sides from the clomid. At the time I was having horrible problems with my girlfriend she found out I cheated on her and she was mindfucking me so bad I wanted to kill her then myself. I thought I was gonna be impotent and sterile for the rest of my life. Boy I was miserable. I'm glad I made it through those rough times. I was also dabbling with addictive rec drugs it was really dangerous. I have learned a lot from those experinces!

came back jacked lmao. Only way you would be considred jacked is if yu addd 40 pounds of pure muscle in that cycle. See here is the problem right here. Newbs here stories like this and think that in one cycle there gonna get jacked lol. so bro, not trying to pull your leg but clarify "came back jackd"  4 pounds of muscle twenty pounds of water and 10 pounds of fat.." I put on 40 lbs this cycle bro"
people are dellusional ::)
l

makaveli25

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2010, 11:23:43 AM »
Whats delussional about it. I looked jacked my traps and arms looked ridicolous. People said I looked "jacked" I know it wasn't all muscle gain but I didn't even look like the same person. I was using pharm grade sustanon and the really good pink thai that were availible 5 years ago and I was training like an elite athlete.

g101

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2010, 11:55:11 AM »
its the androgens that are the killer!!!!!!

unless you use GH! then it's ok

Meso_z

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2010, 12:26:59 PM »
It depends on the individual imo. some get health problems, while others dont.

disco_stu

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Re: Health risks, what's the real deal?
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2010, 12:47:26 PM »
I've been researching this for about 2 years now and have come to
these conclusions.

Assume you get every side you've listed.
Is 10 - 20 lbs of muscle worth it?

Assume you get none of the sides.
Are you young enough to recover your nuts?
Are you willing to go through feeling like shit once you crash off the sauce?

I am natural and probably big enough but would like to try before it's too late
but keep asking myself is it worth it?

You have to answer that for yourself - are the sides listed or potentially shutting your
natural test down for good (or at least lowering your natty levels and needing hrt for the rest of your life)
worth it?


IT DEPENDS, but i'd say no..having been on both sides of the argument.

if you can handle the come down after being "on", then yes, do it.

the reason why people stay on for so long is that the come down is demoralising, and psychologically devastating.

one thing is risking the sides, which can be very real for some- the other thing is dealing with rapid decline of improvement when you are off.

theres also the issue of knowing that what you are doing depends on assistance. its ok for here and now psychology, but it nags at you, and then becomes a crux.

im of the opinion that very small doses are the best compromise. smaller than what people here even consider small.

its enough to promote an anabolic state, so gains do come, yet when you go off, provided you stay on short periods, the come down isnt as pronounced.

Those citing acne on their first cycle etc dont realise that although their bloods are back to norm, their hormones are shot, and wont be the same again. The ratios have changed, and other compounds that arent tested go on unchecked.

if acne scarring is what you want, good for you. irreversible hair loss, or body hair growth, great for you. an inflated sense of capability, great.

the best one is the loss of what it requires to build muscle. When the gains come, everybody trains less intensely than they did prior to their usage. its an undeniable point that you train harder when the gains are more difficult to get. people will tell you different, but that's BS- its an attitude designed for self preservation and to justify the usage- like virtually all of those in denial.

ive spent alot of time drug free, and using, from mild to reasonably wild. Even mild use is an illusion if you want to do this long term.

either get to a level then abandon hormones altogether- the gains will come back after losing a bunch at first, or use very small amounts to keep you grounded.

of course this is IMO. The psych aspect is the most difficult part.