Top model Giselle B. makes 25-30 million a yr! Hmmm,bikini and MPD anyone?

[pellius]

You're letting your own personal idea of beauty cloud your opinion.

Giselle has a skill. It's the ability to resonate with women and sell products. The type of money she commands as a model, is based upon the type of money she can generate for a company. Not just anyone can do that.

LOL! I also agree with much more subtle post.

But to me, it's irrelevant whether she has a skill or anything that a third party outside observer think justifies her salary. In any transaction between a buyer (her employer) and seller (Giselle) all that matter is what they agree upon. If someone decides to pay her a 100 million never to model again all that matters is if she'll agree to the terms.

[body88]

LOL! I also agree with much more subtle post.

But to me, it's irrelevant whether she has a skill or anything that a third party outside observer think justifies her salary. In any transaction between a buyer (her employer) and seller (Giselle) all that matter is what they agree upon. If someone decides to pay her a 100 million never to model again all that matters is if she'll agree to the terms.

But thats not what I'm arguing.. I'm saying she has a skill and deserves the money that she helps to generate. I'm not arguing the moral or social value of Gisele B, either.

[cephissus]

So you're saying corporations don't expact an roi on their endorsements?

Why in the hell are these companies losing millions by funding a model who does nothing for them?

The model is a tiny part of the machine -- a necessary part but of the lowest order.

Saying giselle makes them their millions back is like saying the windshield on veyron makes bugatti their millions back.  It's an essential part, of course, but its specific qualities are trivial.  They could have designed the windshield a million different ways and no one would know the difference.  Similarly, the fashion companies could have dressed up a million different models in their clothes and no one would know the difference.

[pellius]

Pellius, let me ask you a question.

If Giselle can generate 20 million dollars in sales, does she deserve the 10% cut she is taking for that skill?

In a free market she "deserves" what ever she can get. Whatever anybody is willing to pay her and she is able to negotiate. But obviously if someone makes me $100 and I only have to pay them $10 in return then I am getting a great deal. And it doesn't matter to me if I end up paying them 10 billion dollars as long as I get my 100 billion.

But just between you and me, if John Matrix can make me a 100 billion dollars, I'd even give him 99 billion.  

[pellius]

Just to prove my point: they could take any vaguely modelly looking girl TONIGHT and make a headline "NEW GIRL MAKES 50 MILLION ON FIRST CONTRACT" and INSTANTLY people would give her the same sort of clout giselle has.  Obviously they don't do this because it would upset too many people and is even more costly than is necessary.

I don't believe this to be the case. For some reason Giselle resonates in the world of modeling. But say you're right. So what? Say a modeling company decides to take some random hottie off the beach and pay her 50 million. If it turns out to be a bad iinvestment, guess what? Modeling company goes out of business.

I think you are under estimating the business savvy of a successful modeling agency. Why do I say that? It's because they are successful.

[body88]

The model is a tiny part of the machine -- a necessary part but of the lowest order.

Saying giselle makes them their millions back is like saying the windshield on veyron makes bugatti their millions back.  It's an essential part, of course, but it's trivial.  They could have designed the windshield a million different ways and no one would know the difference.  Similarly, the fashion companies could have dressed up a million different models in their clothes and no one would know the difference.

To me this is totally false. What you say might have been true prior to Giselle building her brand, when she was a random model, but now, she offers instant roi opportunity for a company.

Giselle has millions of fans who adore her. A company who chooses to use her as a spokesperson, can build instant credibility with a massive audience by using her. If you're a marginal brand looking to revamp your image, or a current brand looking to tap into a huge market, using Giselle is a great vehicle to make that happen, and to drive sales across the board.

Your example might be a bad one. People do know the difference between Giselle and a model they never heard of.

Giselle is a world famous star. She's in all the mags, all over the tv. Young women love her, and when they see her wearing a brand, that brand becomes cool and they want to be part of the image that Giselle provides. They respond to that by opening their wallet.

Say I started an athletic apparel company. How many people would take that company serious and also buy my products if I had Kobe endorsing the gear  vs. some random NBA player you never heard of?

[pellius]

But thats not what I'm arguing.. I'm saying she has a skill and deserves the money that she helps to generate. I'm not arguing the moral or social value of Gisele B, either.

I know. Just making a point about the absurdity for people, not involved in a transaction, to complain about who or what something or someone's worth is. I mentioned watches before. I don't wear a watch. Don't need to and don't want to. I wouldn't pay 20 bucks for a Rolex if I was forced to wear it. If I could get a genuine Rolex for $20 I'd simply sell it.

What determines a product's value is what someone is willing to pay. And never conflate the cost of a product (how much resources it took to produce it) with the price of a product (how much someone is willing to pay).  

[cephissus]

You all seem to believe in some secret "resonating quality" of Giselle.  I'm telling you it's not the case!!

Take any no-name off the street, build them up with deals left and right... after a while, drop the "OMG 25 MILLION PAYCHECK articles"... they will resonate! I promise!

Of course they have to have model qualities, but these "skills" (not true skills in this case--looks, basic level of education) are not hard to come by, and not a secret!  You think these corporation talent scouts have a sharp eye, but they don't!  It's no secret who can be a model and who can't; it's obvious after five minutes.  The rest is just pile on the money and fame and watch girls hearts melt.

Similar to the world of bodybuilding in a lot of ways...

[pellius]

The model is a tiny part of the machine -- a necessary part but of the lowest order.

Saying giselle makes them their millions back is like saying the windshield on veyron makes bugatti their millions back.  It's an essential part, of course, but its specific qualities are trivial.  They could have designed the windshield a million different ways and no one would know the difference.  Similarly, the fashion companies could have dressed up a million different models in their clothes and no one would know the difference.

Again this is irrelevant to the salary she commands -- which is what I believe we are arguing. Whether you or anybody else think she's of the lowest order, or that it could have been anyone else, is irrelevant to the fact that someone is willing to pay her the amount she gets. Maybe not you. Certainly not I. But someone. I think it's crazy but then again, I'm not writing the checks.  

[cephissus]

Say I started an athletic apparel company. How many people would take that company serious and also buy my products if I had Kobe endorsing the gear  vs. some random NBA player you never heard of?

Kobe is a great basketball player with a lot of talent.  He worked his way up to the top.  Giselle is an average model-looking girl who was in the right place at the right time -- corporations did EVERYTHING, to make her famous.

Corporations can't take some guy from your local gym and make him into Kobe.  They can take any number of a dozen girls you probably know personally and turn them into Giselle.   That's the difference.

[body88]

You all seem to believe in some secret "resonating quality" of Giselle.  I'm telling you it's not the case!!

Take any no-name off the street, build them up with deals left and right... after a while, drop the "OMG 25 MILLION PAYCHECK articles"... they will resonate! I promise!

Of course they have to have model qualities, but these are not "skills" (not true skills in this case--looks, basic level of education) are not hard to come by, and not a secret!  You think these corporation talent scouts have a sharp eye, but they don't!  It's no secret who can be a model and who can't; it's obvious after five minutes.  The rest is just pile on the money and fame and watch girls hearts melt.

Similar to the world of bodybuilding in a lot of ways...

Dude, I'm sorry, but starting a company and hiring some random model and claiming she makes 25 million a year does not drive sales.

The reason Giselle generates money for companies is because she has millions of fans all over the world who spend money attempting to tap into her image and lifestyle.

If you started a fashion brand and spent a bunch of money on marketing, promoting a model that no one ever heard of you might succeed based on your products. If you want to circumvent that risk, you go out, and you pay a model like Giselle, who has a giant market attached to her brand and tap into that resource instantly. It's why companies hire spokespeople, to sell shit!

[pellius]

You all seem to believe in some secret "resonating quality" of Giselle.  I'm telling you it's not the case!!

Take any no-name off the street, build them up with deals left and right... after a while, drop the "OMG 25 MILLION PAYCHECK articles"... they will resonate! I promise!

Of course they have to have model qualities, but these "skills" (not true skills in this case--looks, basic level of education) are not hard to come by, and not a secret!  You think these corporation talent scouts have a sharp eye, but they don't!  It's no secret who can be a model and who can't; it's obvious after five minutes.  The rest is just pile on the money and fame and watch girls hearts melt.

Similar to the world of bodybuilding in a lot of ways...

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! It is not ME that thinks she has some secret or special "resonating" quality. What I'm saying is that someone obviously does and they are the one's writing the check. You may think it's unfair. You may think it's stupid. But you're not the one writing the check.
 

[cephissus]

Again this is irrelevant to the salary she commands -- which is what I believe we are arguing. Whether you or anybody else think she's of the lowest order, or that it could have been anyone else, is irrelevant to the fact that someone is willing to pay her the amount she gets. Maybe not you. Certainly not I. But someone. I think it's crazy but then again, I'm not writing the checks.  

I agree with you but I'm specifically arguing against the idea that she has some sort of "special skills" that make her particularly suited to top tier modeling work.  She may have the skills, but they aren't special.  Luck of the draw for her.  That's all I'm saying.

[bradistani]

There are MILLIONS of tall and skinny women. Why is Giselle making more than the other 999,999 zero skill clothes horses?

Since this is getting redundant I'll say it one last time, and we'll agree to disagree. Giselle makes big money because she is able to make big money for companies through her endorsements.

no there isn't. not like her anyway. you need to see these women next to normal woman to realise just how strikingly different they are.

[body88]

Kobe is a great basketball player with a lot of talent.  He worked his way up to the top.  Giselle is an average model-looking girl who was in the right place at the right time -- corporations did EVERYTHING, to make her famous.

Corporations can't take some guy from your local gym and make him into Kobe.  They can take any number of a dozen girls you probably know personally and turn them into Giselle.   That's the difference.

You're missing the point over and over, and you're all over the place. you said Giselle does not generate roi and that is incorrect.

Giselle is a brand. She has millions of fans right now. If I invest in her I get credibility with all those fans instantly. All her fans buy my shit instantly. Consumers see her in my shit in the 1000 magazines that show pictures of her. She talks about my brand when she's on tv, etc.

[body88]

no there isn't. not like her anyway. you need to see these women next to normal woman to realise just how strikingly different they are.

You ever been to LA or NYC, dude? There are a MILLION tall, skinny models walking around trying to make it big.

I live two blocks from Giselle here in Boston. I've seen her a million times.

You hire Giselle, you're exposed to millions of consumers who want to be like her across the world. Your sales increase, period.

[kiwiol]

Modelling is all about looks & image, and Giselle has created an image for herself associated with her name that sells to the public for their own reasons. That is her skill - the creation of the image that companies pay for.

And Matrix, the modelling industry is just as cut throat as Hollywood, so no one gets to the top & stays there through pure luck alone - there are a whole lot of factors involved. If Giselle gets replaced by a new face tomorrow, the new girl is just another pretty face in the modelling world who doesn't have Giselle's connection with the target market.

Which is why her looks/image is capitalized on, for as long as it's in demand and for the best price they can get.

[pellius]

I agree with you but I'm specifically arguing against the idea that she has some sort of "special skills" that make her particularly suited to top tier modeling work.  She may have the skills, but they aren't special.  Luck of the draw for her.  That's all I'm saying.

Fair enough. Again, as I mentioned before, so much in life has to due with luck and sheer chance of events. Giselle right now is the one. She wasn't always the one and she won't always be the one. But apparently she is right now. I don't get it but then again I'm not the one paying her. Whoever is paying her obvious believes, whether you agree or not, that they are getting a good deal or they simply would not pay her the amount she commands.

It's a strange world, my friend, and if God made me god I would have created a world where we all start off as equals and everything we get or don't get out of life is solely up to us. Everyone would get what they deserved.

[pellius]

You're missing the point over and over, and you're all over the place. you said Giselle does not generate roi and that is incorrect.

Giselle is a brand. She has millions of fans right now. If I invest in her I get credibility with all those fans instantly. All her fans buy my shit instantly. Consumers see her in my shit in the 1000 magazines that show pictures of her. She talks about my brand when she's on tv, etc.

I know economics but I don't know business -- LOL! What's roi?

[body88]

Modelling is all about looks & image, and Giselle has created an image for herself associated with her name that sells to the public for their own reasons. That is her skill - the creation of the image that companies pay for.

And Matrix, the modelling industry is just as cut throat as Hollywood, so no one gets to the top & stays there through pure luck alone - there are a whole lot of factors involved. If Giselle gets replaced by a new face tomorrow, the new girl is just another pretty face in the modelling world who doesn't have Giselle's connection with the target market.

Exactly.

Let me break it down like this. I'm famous and I have 1,000,000 people who follow me on twitter. They watch me on TV, they love my image and they follow my every move. Lets say that audience is made up of 18-34 year old males. You're a clothing company who wants to reach 18-34 year old males and you pay me 100,000 to wear your t-shirts. You've instantly built credibility with a huge amount of consumers who you are targeting, and chances are they will start buying your brand.

[body88]

I know economics but I don't know business -- LOL! What's roi?

return on investment.

I think it's safe to say if a clothing company gives Giselle 1,000,000 they will see many times that figure in sales coming from her millions of fans across the globe.

[cephissus]

You're missing the point over and over, and you're all over the place. you said Giselle does not generate roi and that is incorrect.

Giselle is a brand. She has millions of fans right now. If I invest in her I get credibility with all those fans instantly. All her fans buy my shit instantly. Consumers see her in my shit in the 1000 magazines that show pictures of her. She talks about my brand when she's on tv, etc.

And this has nothing to do with her skill.  It is all because she has been built up by the corporations she works for into "something special" when in fact she's not.  They are the ones making her into a brand.  She is not making herself into a brand.

She's like a raw chunk of stone, nothing special about it, that they chose to carve into their little supermodel.  Sure, now she is the supermodel -- okay, but everything about her was manufactured by Victoria's secret et al.  I feel like you're saying the stone carved itself into the statue.  Simply not the case.

[body88]

And this has nothing to do with her skill.  It is all because she has been built up by the corporations she works for into "something special" when in fact she's not.  They are the ones making her into a brand.  She is not making herself into a brand.

She's like a raw chunk of stone, nothing special about it, that they chose to carve into their little supermodel.  Sure, now she is the supermodel -- okay, but everything about her was manufactured by Victoria's secret et al.  I feel like you're saying the stone carved itself into the statue.  Simply not the case.

That's false man. She has staying power and she resonates with her fans. That takes skill. She's been a fav of women for over a decade. What happened to all the other models VS and other brands endorsed? You cant force consumers to like a spokesperson. Marketing alone does not make fans want to live your lifestyle. It's the same reason you find certain people cool. James Dean, whatever. It's not the marketing alone, it's also the persons persona.

Look at it this way. If Giselle has 10,000,000 fans across the globe and 10% of those fans buy your 50.00 garmet she is endorsing, you've just made 50,000,00.00 and you only had to pay her 5,000,000. That a pretty big roi, and that's why companies hire her.

Her skill is staying power and remaining relevent and cool in an industry where new trends/faces happen every day.

[pellius]

I also want to mention about this business about athletes deserving what they get because they have a specific skill and worked hard to develop it.

But again this is luck of the draw. Contrary to the feel good saying that a champion is made not born, the fact is for the most part they are born. They are born with a talent that the rest of mere mortals don't have no matter what we do, take or how hard we work.

Sure they work hard but not any harder than their competitors. I mentioned Tiger Woods. When he was a champ while still in his teens he simply did not live long enough to put in the time and effort that his competition did.

Take bodybuilding. Does anyone really think that Ronnie took some special cocktail of drugs or more of them than any of his rivals? Did he train harder than the nobody bodybuilder, Benny Podda, who I witnessed squatting until his nose burst with blood? Ronnie was genetically gifted. Sure he did more and worked harder than a model who just happened to be born with a specific look. But in both cases what took them to the top was a gift from God.

[bradistani]

You ever been to LA or NYC, dude? There are a MILLION tall, skinny models walking around trying to make it big.

I live two blocks from Giselle here in Boston. I've seen her a million times.

You hire Giselle, you're exposed to millions of consumers who want to be like her across the world. Your sales increase, period.

maybe so, but she'll be somehow more unique.

look, i understand what you're saying. i'm just saying that you're wrong when you say she has a skill. she doesn't. she's tall and thin and got fucking lucky over all the other tall and skinny girls trying to make it.

whether she's worth all that money is neither here nor there. the fact is, she CAN make that money in the strange world we live in. good on her.. we'd all do the same in her shoes.

just like this dude, lol



he's taking it to the bank. is he worth it?