Author Topic: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire  (Read 3818 times)

Dos Equis

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Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« on: December 06, 2010, 03:48:33 PM »
You would think Obama would have learned a lesson from Clinton (don't mess with military pay). 

Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire   
By Jack Gruber, USA TODAY

"This is absolute garbage," says Marines Corps Sgt. John Ellis of President Obama's proposed 1.4% pay hike, the lowest in 48 years.

Military servicemembers are fighting what would be their lowest pay raise in decades as the nation wages two wars, including a 10th year of combat in Afghanistan.

The Obama administration has proposed a 1.4% raise for the military in 2011, which would be the lowest since 1962, when no raise was given.

The administration, which wants to freeze non-military pay for federal workers to tackle the deficit, says a 1.4% raise for the military would match average private-sector-wage growth and is in addition to earlier increases in housing and food subsidies.

The raise proposal comes as the White House seeks ways to reduce a deficit fueled in part by stimulus spending for the private sector. Servicemembers say the cost-cutting should not include the pay for men and women in uniform.

"This is absolute garbage," says Marine Corps Sgt. John Ellis, 26, a squad commander who recently returned from Afghanistan, his fourth deployment. "The U.S. government can bail out GM and other major corporations, but for us little guys who make beans for money (and) risk getting killed these people think we don't need a raise."

The House approved a 1.9% raise, but the Senate Armed Services Committee, chaired by Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., adopted the administration's lower recommendation.

Two weeks remain in the "lame duck" session of Congress, and Democrats have made passage of a defense authorization bill, which includes the pay raise, contingent on a divisive measure to repeal the military's ban on gays serving openly.

Some senators say Congress should give a boost to troops doing the most fighting. Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., will propose bonuses for troops doing the "hardest work and most hazardous duties," spokesman Will Jenkins says.

Retired vice admiral Norbert Ryan, president of the Military Officers Association of America, says his group is leading a coalition of 32 groups representing 5.5 million current and former military personnel and their families in pushing for a 1.9% raise.

"To give the lowest pay raise in 48 years with a war in its 10th year, and the wear and tear on the families ... we just think from a leadership point of view it sends a terrible signal," Ryan says.

An additional half-percent increase over 1.4% raise will cost taxpayers $350 million in 2011, bringing the total cost of the higher raise to $1.3 billion, Pentagon spokeswoman Eileen Lainez says.

"This is the one group in the country that has not let this nation down," Ryan says. "They are not investment bankers."

Ryan says a higher increase is necessary to continue closing a pay-gap between military and civilian wages. The Pentagon says that the gap has already been closed with free health care and major increases in tax-free housing and food allowances.

An Army private with no dependents earns on average $37,209, figuring in base pay, housing and food allowances, and pays no taxes on the allowances, Lainez says. That compensation for an Army captain with no dependents would be $89,309.

"The president and Congress should take a pay cut before they issue this paltry increase to our troops," says Mary Ward, whose son, Army Staff Sgt. Sean Ward, 27, is on his fourth deployment.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2010-12-06-1Amilitarypay06_ST_N.htm

Cy Tolliver

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2010, 04:44:47 PM »
You would think Obama would have learned a lesson from Clinton (don't mess with military pay). 

Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire   
By Jack Gruber, USA TODAY

"This is absolute garbage," says Marines Corps Sgt. John Ellis of President Obama's proposed 1.4% pay hike, the lowest in 48 years.

Military servicemembers are fighting what would be their lowest pay raise in decades as the nation wages two wars, including a 10th year of combat in Afghanistan.

The Obama administration has proposed a 1.4% raise for the military in 2011, which would be the lowest since 1962, when no raise was given.

The administration, which wants to freeze non-military pay for federal workers to tackle the deficit, says a 1.4% raise for the military would match average private-sector-wage growth and is in addition to earlier increases in housing and food subsidies.

The raise proposal comes as the White House seeks ways to reduce a deficit fueled in part by stimulus spending for the private sector. Servicemembers say the cost-cutting should not include the pay for men and women in uniform.

"This is absolute garbage," says Marine Corps Sgt. John Ellis, 26, a squad commander who recently returned from Afghanistan, his fourth deployment. "The U.S. government can bail out GM and other major corporations, but for us little guys who make beans for money (and) risk getting killed these people think we don't need a raise."

The House approved a 1.9% raise, but the Senate Armed Services Committee, chaired by Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., adopted the administration's lower recommendation.

Two weeks remain in the "lame duck" session of Congress, and Democrats have made passage of a defense authorization bill, which includes the pay raise, contingent on a divisive measure to repeal the military's ban on gays serving openly.

Some senators say Congress should give a boost to troops doing the most fighting. Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., will propose bonuses for troops doing the "hardest work and most hazardous duties," spokesman Will Jenkins says.

Retired vice admiral Norbert Ryan, president of the Military Officers Association of America, says his group is leading a coalition of 32 groups representing 5.5 million current and former military personnel and their families in pushing for a 1.9% raise.

"To give the lowest pay raise in 48 years with a war in its 10th year, and the wear and tear on the families ... we just think from a leadership point of view it sends a terrible signal," Ryan says.

An additional half-percent increase over 1.4% raise will cost taxpayers $350 million in 2011, bringing the total cost of the higher raise to $1.3 billion, Pentagon spokeswoman Eileen Lainez says.

"This is the one group in the country that has not let this nation down," Ryan says. "They are not investment bankers."

Ryan says a higher increase is necessary to continue closing a pay-gap between military and civilian wages. The Pentagon says that the gap has already been closed with free health care and major increases in tax-free housing and food allowances.

An Army private with no dependents earns on average $37,209, figuring in base pay, housing and food allowances, and pays no taxes on the allowances, Lainez says. That compensation for an Army captain with no dependents would be $89,309.

"The president and Congress should take a pay cut before they issue this paltry increase to our troops," says Mary Ward, whose son, Army Staff Sgt. Sean Ward, 27, is on his fourth deployment.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2010-12-06-1Amilitarypay06_ST_N.htm

Why is it OK to cut police and fire, but the military is off limits?

???
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Dos Equis

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2010, 04:50:43 PM »
Why is it OK to cut police and fire, but the military is off limits?

???

Who said it was o.k. to cut salaries of police officers and fire fighters? 

In any event, keep in mind that police officers and fire fighters are, for the most part, paid by local governments. 

tu_holmes

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2010, 04:51:47 PM »
Why is it OK to cut police and fire, but the military is off limits?

???

Shouldn't be.

They should not be receiving any pay raises.

I didn't let anyone down and I had to go without a raise either.

No one should be getting any raises in the government.

NO ONE.

Dos Equis

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2010, 04:53:20 PM »
Screw that.  Those men and women are making tremendous sacrifices.  Leave their pay alone. 

tu_holmes

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2010, 04:56:39 PM »
Screw that.  Those men and women are making tremendous sacrifices.  Leave their pay alone. 

Big deal... That's bullshit.

They choose to join the military. They CHOOSE the life.

NO ONE gets a guaranteed pay raise in life. That's as socialist as you can get.

Dos Equis

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2010, 05:02:34 PM »
Big deal... That's bullshit.

They choose to join the military. They CHOOSE the life.

NO ONE gets a guaranteed pay raise in life. That's as socialist as you can get.

Yes they chose to serve.  They chose to sacrifice their health and safety.  They chose to die.  Doesn't make their sacrifices any less important.  I have no problem with increasing their pay.  Good use of my tax dollars. 

Cy Tolliver

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2010, 05:04:35 PM »
Who said it was o.k. to cut salaries of police officers and fire fighters? 

In any event, keep in mind that police officers and fire fighters are, for the most part, paid by local governments. 

I just think it's a given if police and fire need to be cut, you cut them...  Why does it matter who their paid by?

If we can't afford it, we can't afford it.
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Cy Tolliver

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2010, 05:05:16 PM »
Big deal... That's bullshit.

They choose to join the military. They CHOOSE the life.

NO ONE gets a guaranteed pay raise in life. That's as socialist as you can get.

X2

They weren't drafted...
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Dos Equis

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2010, 05:06:47 PM »
I just think it's a given if police and fire need to be cut, you cut them...  Why does it matter who their paid by?

If we can't afford it, we can't afford it.

Your analysis is a bit off.  This story is about a federal government funded pay raise.  You need to compare apples with apples.  Not every state is struggling.  

And again, who said it was o.k. to cut the salaries of police officers of fire fighters?

Cy Tolliver

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2010, 05:08:08 PM »
Your analysis is a bit off.  This story is about a federal government funded pay raise.  You need to compare apples with apples.  Not every state is struggling.  

And again, who said it was o.k. to cut the salaries of police officers of fire fighters?

In the case that some level of government is struggling, cuts like this shouldn't be out of the question.
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Cy Tolliver

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2010, 05:09:03 PM »
And again, who said it was o.k. to cut the salaries of police officers of fire fighters?

So you're also opposed to cutting police and fire?

???
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tu_holmes

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2010, 05:09:13 PM »
Yes they chose to serve.  They chose to sacrifice their health and safety.  They chose to die.  Doesn't make their sacrifices any less important.  I have no problem with increasing their pay.  Good use of my tax dollars.  

Terrible use... There is no reason to expand their pay when the average American isn't get it either.

Because you might have to go to war doesn't give you some special reason to get a pay raise.

Complete BULLSHIT.

Dos Equis

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2010, 05:16:40 PM »
So you're also opposed to cutting police and fire?

???

?  That's what YOU said:

Quote
Why is it OK to cut police and fire, but the military is off limits?

???

I didn't say anything about cutting police and fire pay and I don't think it has any relationship to U.S. military salaries.  A better comparison would be police and fire to national guard pay in a state that is having financial trouble. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2010, 05:17:12 PM »
Terrible use... There is no reason to expand their pay when the average American isn't get it either.

Because you might have to go to war doesn't give you some special reason to get a pay raise.

Complete BULLSHIT.

They're not average Americans. 

Cy Tolliver

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2010, 05:21:33 PM »
?  That's what YOU said:


I didn't say anything about cutting police and fire pay and I don't think it has any relationship to U.S. military salaries.  A better comparison would be police and fire to national guard pay in a state that is having financial trouble. 

You really like to argue, you should get a job as a lawyer or something!
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Dos Equis

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2010, 05:23:26 PM »
You really like to argue, you should get a job as a lawyer or something!

Not arguing with you, but thanks for playing.   :)

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2010, 05:24:48 PM »
Do they usually get a pay raise every year?  If so how much?

Dos Equis

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2010, 05:28:13 PM »
Do they usually get a pay raise every year?  If so how much?

Yes.  It's like 3 percent, or whatever the cost of living adjustment is (something like that).  Clinton tried to cut military pay and it caused a pretty big uproar. 

Emmortal

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2010, 05:49:20 PM »
I didn't say anything about cutting police and fire pay and I don't think it has any relationship to U.S. military salaries.  A better comparison would be police and fire to national guard pay in a state that is having financial trouble.  

That's not even a fair comparison either.  Police and Fire pay, especially pensions, are heavily persuaded by unions, military pay is under direct government oversight, there are no unions representing military personnel.

It's reasonable to look at cuts in Police and Fire because many  of the previous representatives have unduly promised benefits that could not have been afforded to begin with, thus contributing to many states shortfall in budgets.

I'm against this cut to military, they should get their standard 3% rate.

Dos Equis

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2010, 05:58:06 PM »
That's not even a fair comparison either.  Police and Fire pay, especially pensions, are heavily persuaded by unions, military pay is under direct government oversight, there are no unions representing military personnel.

It's reasonable to look at cuts in Police and Fire because many  of the previous representatives have unduly promised benefits that could not have been afforded to begin with, thus contributing to many states shortfall in budgets.

I'm against this cut to military, they should get their standard 3% rate.

Good point.  It's not something I'm really advocating.  Just trying to help "Cy Tolliver" improve a poor analogy. 

There are certain jobs that I don't mind funding:  teachers, public safety, military, and the like.  We don't pay them enough IMO. 

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2010, 06:21:27 PM »
Given that all Federal Employee's have a pay freeze they should be glad they are getting any raise at all


tu_holmes

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2010, 12:27:47 AM »
They're not average Americans. 

Yes they are... most of them are EXTREMELY average... That's why they are privates when they go in.

So try again.

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2010, 04:30:26 AM »
If they want a raise, it should be offset by cuts somewhere else at least. 

We are broke and its time to start being honest with everyone already about the true state of our monetary affairs. 

In an ideal world we should give raises every year to the military, but guess what, we can't afford it, as well we can't afford most of the stuff we are doing. 

Cy Tolliver

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Re: Proposed 1.4% pay raise for military draws fire
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2010, 04:43:47 AM »
In an ideal world we should give raises every year to the military, but guess what, we can't afford it, as well we can't afford most of the stuff we are doing. 

x2
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