Author Topic: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)  (Read 1313 times)

Soul Crusher

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Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal blows up in Senate
sfgate ^ | December 9, 2010 | Carolyn Lochhead




The Senate is voting now on party lines on a cloture motion that will probably kill efforts to repeal the Don't Ask, Don't Tell ban on gays in the military.

Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine rushed to the Senate floor asking why majority leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., suddenly acted moments ago to move ahead on the defense authorization bill, despite their negotiations, ensuring it will fail to get the 60 votes to break a GOP filibuster. If the motion fails, so does repeal of the 17-year old ban.


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...

Soul Crusher

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What an amazing week of politics. 


Never have I seen an implosion like this from the left. 

Dos Equis

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This is the right outcome, at least for now.  We shouldn't be doing this while fighting two wars.

Straw Man

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This is the right outcome, at least for now.  We shouldn't be doing this while fighting two wars.

the US effectively integrated the military during heavy combat in the Korean war.
In our current conflict our soldiers have served alongside gay troops from other countries and have even been commanded by openly gay troops (I heard this on NPR so I don't have exact details) during our current conflicts.

Per Wiki on the Korean War:

Quote
At the end of June 1950, the Korean War broke out. The U.S. Army had accomplished little desegregation in peacetime and sent the segregated Eighth Army to defend South Korea. Most black soldiers served in segregated support units in the rear. The remainder served in segregated combat units, most notably the 24th Infantry Regiment. The first months of the Korean War were some of the most disastrous in U.S. military history. The North Korean People's Army nearly drove the American-led United Nations forces off the Korean peninsula. Faced with staggering losses in white units, commanders on the ground began accepting black replacements, thus integrating their units. The practice occurred all over the Korean battle lines and proved that integrated combat units could perform under fire. The Army high command took notice. On July 26, 1951, the US Army formally announced its plans to desegregate, exactly three years after Truman issued Executive Order 9981

dario73

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2010, 05:27:32 AM »
Homos is a race?

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2010, 05:35:20 AM »
Why is the far left on suicide watch when it was queer Republicans that got this current legal matter started on DADT in the first place?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2010, 05:36:40 AM »
Why is the far left on suicide watch when it was queer Republicans that got this current legal matter started on DADT in the first place?

Have you lurked at HP, DU, etc? 

I have never seen meltdowns like that.  Yes, Lurker, even my worst meltdwns dont compare to that. 

dario73

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2010, 05:41:55 AM »
I will heed to the advice of the military men who are responsible for the men and women who are currently involved in two wars. I will listen to those military leaders over the government puppets at the Pentagon like Gates and Mullen.


Top brass buck Pentagon, defend 'don't ask' policy

The Associated Press
© December 4, 2010
By Anne Gearan

WASHINGTON

Bucking the Pentagon's top leaders, the chiefs of the Army and Marines urged Congress on Friday not to allow openly gay people to serve in the military, at least not while troops are at war in Afghanistan.

The generals publicly rebutted their own bosses and the White House, arguing that it is too risky to change the policy now. That gave political ammunition to congressional Republicans trying to retain the ban known as "don't ask, don't tell."

"It's important that we're clear about the military risks," said Gen. George Casey, the Army's top officer. "Repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell' would be a major cultural and policy change in the middle of a war."

President Barack Obama has promised to jettison a policy he says is discriminatory, and asked Congress to repeal the 17-year-old law this year. Democrats have promised a vote this month.

Both Casey and Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos undercut Defense Secretary Robert Gates' claim that the change is not too dangerous. Their views are the most closely watched because the Army and Marines are doing most of the fighting in Afghanistan, and did the same in Iraq.

The generals acknowledged that openly gay service was probably inevitable and they played down suggestions that recruiting would drop off or large numbers of soldiers would resign when it happens.

But they warned of social upheaval among the tight units that live and fight side by side for months at a time on the front lines. Lifting the ban will not be as easy or safe as a Pentagon study released this week suggests, the generals said.

"My suspicions are that the law will be repealed" eventually, Amos told the Senate Armed Services Committee. "All I'm asking is the opportunity to do that at a time and choosing when my Marines are not singularly tightly focused on what they're doing in a very deadly environment."

The top Air Force officer also opposed repeal now, recommending delay at least until 2012. Only the Navy's top officer signed up to Gates' assessment that the ban can be lifted without undue risk.

Adm. Mike Mullen, who as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is the individual service chiefs' boss, testified Thursday that wartime is actually a good time to repeal the ban, because troops are too focused on the mission to get distracted by the change.





dario73

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2010, 05:49:21 AM »
They all state that it would be detrimental to repeal it in the middle of war.

If it was up to them they would probably not change the DADT policy.

MCWAY

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2010, 06:16:26 AM »
Have you lurked at HP, DU, etc? 

I have never seen meltdowns like that.  Yes, Lurker, even my worst meltdwns dont compare to that. 

They've completely LOST it over there. And it's not just on DADT. It's all the left-winged items that have been shot down, one after the other.

But, it all hinges on the tax cuts here. As long as the GOP stays united on not voting on ANYTHING, until the Bush tax cuts get extended, the Dems can't do JACK.

MCWAY

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2010, 06:20:32 AM »
Why is the far left on suicide watch when it was queer Republicans that got this current legal matter started on DADT in the first place?

They're angry at the Obama administration, the Dept. of Justice in particular, for defending DADT in the 9th Circuit court (i.e. doing its job).

Four other Circuit Courts have upheld DADT against challenges over the last decade or so. So, the odds are that the 9th (as left-winged as it tends to be) will do the same.

And, as stated earlier, this isn't the only issue that has them FUMING. It's mainly due to the Bush tax cuts and this deal Obama is trying to strike.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2010, 06:24:51 AM »
They're angry at the Obama administration, the Dept. of Justice in particular, for defending DADT in the 9th Circuit court (i.e. doing its job).

Four other Circuit Courts have upheld DADT against challenges over the last decade or so. So, the odds are that the 9th (as left-winged as it tends to be) will do the same.

And, as stated earlier, this isn't the only issue that has them FUMING. It's mainly due to the Bush tax cuts and this deal Obama is trying to strike.

what is amazing is that Obama is catching more flck from the left than anything. 

He finally does he right thing on an issue and the "I want my pony" crwod goes nuts. 

If he gives in on the EPA stuff oh boy.   goo for the nation, terrible for the far left kooks.   

MCWAY

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2010, 07:20:28 AM »
what is amazing is that Obama is catching more flck from the left than anything. 

He finally does he right thing on an issue and the "I want my pony" crwod goes nuts. 

If he gives in on the EPA stuff oh boy.   goo for the nation, terrible for the far left kooks.   

He committed the unpardonable sin, breaking this commandment of the far-left goofball contingent: THOU SHALT NOT LET PEOPLE KEEP MORE OF THEIR OWN MONEY!!!!


Straw Man

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2010, 08:21:07 AM »
The rank and file already said they don't care

we have ample evidence that we can make changes to the military during a war

we know that our troops have served and been commanded by openly gay troops from other countries during the current wars.

the only reason left not to do it is politics

just like everything else in this country

MCWAY

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2010, 08:28:07 AM »
The rank and file already said they don't care

we have ample evidence that we can make changes to the military during a war

we know that our troops have served and been commanded by openly gay troops from other countries during the current wars.

the only reason left not to do it is politics

just like everything else in this country

"They don't care" (and that's debatable, depending on what survey you see) works both ways. If they don't care if DADT goes, they also don't care if DADT stays.

Straw Man

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2010, 08:37:36 AM »
"They don't care" (and that's debatable, depending on what survey you see) works both ways. If they don't care if DADT goes, they also don't care if DADT stays.

how do you figure

the result was that 70% support repeal

it didn't say 70% support keeping it in place

btw - DADT creates situations where people can be blackmailed.   Isn't that a danger to our security created by this policy.   

Dos Equis

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2010, 10:40:45 AM »
I will heed to the advice of the military men who are responsible for the men and women who are currently involved in two wars. I will listen to those military leaders over the government puppets at the Pentagon like Gates and Mullen.


Top brass buck Pentagon, defend 'don't ask' policy

The Associated Press
© December 4, 2010
By Anne Gearan

WASHINGTON

Bucking the Pentagon's top leaders, the chiefs of the Army and Marines urged Congress on Friday not to allow openly gay people to serve in the military, at least not while troops are at war in Afghanistan.

The generals publicly rebutted their own bosses and the White House, arguing that it is too risky to change the policy now. That gave political ammunition to congressional Republicans trying to retain the ban known as "don't ask, don't tell."

"It's important that we're clear about the military risks," said Gen. George Casey, the Army's top officer. "Repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell' would be a major cultural and policy change in the middle of a war."

President Barack Obama has promised to jettison a policy he says is discriminatory, and asked Congress to repeal the 17-year-old law this year. Democrats have promised a vote this month.

Both Casey and Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos undercut Defense Secretary Robert Gates' claim that the change is not too dangerous. Their views are the most closely watched because the Army and Marines are doing most of the fighting in Afghanistan, and did the same in Iraq.

The generals acknowledged that openly gay service was probably inevitable and they played down suggestions that recruiting would drop off or large numbers of soldiers would resign when it happens.

But they warned of social upheaval among the tight units that live and fight side by side for months at a time on the front lines. Lifting the ban will not be as easy or safe as a Pentagon study released this week suggests, the generals said.

"My suspicions are that the law will be repealed" eventually, Amos told the Senate Armed Services Committee. "All I'm asking is the opportunity to do that at a time and choosing when my Marines are not singularly tightly focused on what they're doing in a very deadly environment."

The top Air Force officer also opposed repeal now, recommending delay at least until 2012. Only the Navy's top officer signed up to Gates' assessment that the ban can be lifted without undue risk.

Adm. Mike Mullen, who as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is the individual service chiefs' boss, testified Thursday that wartime is actually a good time to repeal the ban, because troops are too focused on the mission to get distracted by the change.






I watched portions of their Senate testimony.  All of them expressed concerns about doing this during a war.  The Marines don't favor a repeal at all. 

And the survey was a fairly small sample because most didn't complete it.  Also, the responses from combat arms Soldiers (e.g., "the infantry") was much less in favor than the combat support folks. 

tonymctones

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the US effectively integrated the military during heavy combat in the Korean war.
In our current conflict our soldiers have served alongside gay troops from other countries and have even been commanded by openly gay troops (I heard this on NPR so I don't have exact details) during our current conflicts.

Per Wiki on the Korean War:

more stupidity comparing gays to blacks...

dario73

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more stupidity comparing gays to blacks...

Exactly what I implied.
Homos is a race?

MCWAY

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal killed in Senate (Far left on Suicide Watch)
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2010, 04:23:35 PM »
how do you figure

the result was that 70% support repeal

it didn't say 70% support keeping it in place

btw - DADT creates situations where people can be blackmailed.   Isn't that a danger to our security created by this policy.  

The survey says no such thing. It says that 70% either support, had mixed feelings, or didn't care one way or the other, feeling it had no effect on morale.

46% said "No effect"; 26% said "mixed", and 21% said negative effects. Only about 6% said it was a positive.

I've seen the survey and many of the questions start with "IF 'Don't Ask; Don't Tell' is repealed....", or "Assume 'Don't Ask; Don't Tell' is repealed....."

That's hardly 70% support for repeal.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-dadt-survey-a1.eps-20101201,0,5552102.graphic