Author Topic: What is "Progressive Overload"?  (Read 45051 times)

Fatpanda

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #200 on: January 08, 2011, 12:07:21 PM »
I'm a true natural bodybuilder,  I gained about 35-40 lbs of muscle ( over 10 years ) basically lifting the same amount of weight because my weak joints (specially shoulders).

hahahahahaha no you didn't you lying sack of shit.

take your bullshit brologic myths and jump off a cliff with them.

unless you started eating 250cals a day and slowly increased the calories.

science is 100% certain on the primary cause of hypertrophy, its LOAD.

not the pump and not the burn.

a muscle fibre is only as thick as it has to be to support a given load.

a muscle fibre ONLY thickens when it is exposed to heavier loads.

lifting the same weight more times only increases endurance capacity i.e. energy, by enabling the storage of more atp + water etc

this method will only swell the cell so far then it will not get any bigger no matter how many sets, burn, or pump reps you do. and skipping a meal will deflate the look too - its that insignificant.

this is not up for debate - it has been confirmed by science.

as for tendons  suckmymuscle is correct. a tendon only supports the muscle, the muscle lifts the weight, not the tendon.

as this is my official comment on the matter.

this thread can now be closed.
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dj181

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #201 on: January 08, 2011, 12:16:22 PM »
Damn Panda! I gots to admit dat che had me a bit shaken with regards to progressive overload, coz I actually accepted his above statement as being FACT, so thanks for helping me to return back to the true HOLY GRAIL OF MUSCLE BUILDING ie. PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD

tbombz

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #202 on: January 08, 2011, 12:23:35 PM »
fatpanda is right on the money for the most part. the one area i would disagree is lets say your one rep max is 405. you stick with 405 for a few months till you can rep it 10 times. load did not increase, but you will have grown quite a bit.

and while i agree about load being the most important factor, i dont think its necessary to say che is lying. he is only claiming to have gained a few lbs per year, and i think that is probably do-able if your eating right and doing tons of pumping, squeezing, drop sets, etc with moderate weight on all muscle groups. he has posted pics and looked pretty good, but he was a small dude..like a buck 70 at his prime. i know alot of black guys who can be 160-170 ripped without much exercise.

chaos

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #203 on: January 08, 2011, 12:23:46 PM »
Lmao!!!! This fagpanda has been crackin me up lately.

What a pompous prick he is, lol!
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dj181

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #204 on: January 08, 2011, 12:59:25 PM »
Ok tbombz, so I have a feeling that you agree wit dis following statement, "One can improve the growth process by extending their sets" oui? And there is another statement which I believe to be SPOT ON, which is as follows, "HARD WORK will ALWAYS be required to grow muscle naturally." So could it be that che's muscle growth was the direct result of HARD WORK? FYI, one can work hard WITHOUT INCREASING LOADS. Yeah man, I admit dat I'm a bit confused bout da muscle building process, but... I DO KNOW HOW TO GET RIPPED, AND THERE IS NO FVCKING DOUBT BOUT DAT 8)

tbombz

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #205 on: January 08, 2011, 01:07:04 PM »
Ok tbombz, so I have a feeling that you agree wit dis following statement, "One can improve the growth process by extending their sets" oui? And there is another statement which I believe to be SPOT ON, which is as follows, "HARD WORK will ALWAYS be required to grow muscle naturally." So could it be that che's muscle growth was the direct result of HARD WORK? FYI, one can work hard WITHOUT INCREASING LOADS. Yeah man, I admit dat I'm a bit confused bout da muscle building process, but... I DO KNOW HOW TO GET RIPPED, AND THERE IS NO FVCKING DOUBT BOUT DAT 8)
im not confused about it, its just that th mater is complex with many variables ot take into consideration and developing a universal explanation is difficult, at least to put in words.

can one improe the growth process by extending their sets? sure, but to what degree? and what does "extending sets" even mean?

as i said in another thread, its not "either or" (either heavy weight or high reps/sets). you want to be able to do both. science tells us that load is the most important factor, but also that the best rep range for gaining size is 6-12 (lower body may be a bit higher). so while we want to do lots of singles, doubles, and triples in order to get as strong as possible, we also want to be able to use those heavy weights for 6-12 reps.

if growth happens in cycles, it would make sense to train in a fashion where you stick with one weight untill you repping multiple sets in the hypertrophy range (6-12), and at that point bump the weight up to your one rep max. then you stick with the new weight untill your doing multiple sets in the hypetrophy range and then bump up the weight again.  this way you are growing big from volume and making sure the weight continually increasing.

volume works, but it doesnt do much of anything when the weights your using are small.  so i think its best for the bodybuilder interested in growing larger to focus more on powerlifting/powerbuilding untill they are able to use some massive weights, and once they reach that point they can start working on adding reps and sets. that is how to get huge.

dj181

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #206 on: January 08, 2011, 01:15:56 PM »
Sorry man, but I don't buy dat hyperthropy rep range of 6 to 12 reps. I ALWAYS made my best size gains not going much more than 6 reps. Many say the set should last somewhere from 30 to 90 seconds, and I say BULLSHIT ;D I think sets shouldn't last much longer than 20 seconds. Also, as far as "extending the set goes" some say that doing so creates too great of an "inroad" into recovery ability.

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #207 on: January 08, 2011, 01:27:08 PM »
Sorry man, but I don't buy dat hyperthropy rep range of 6 to 12 reps. I ALWAYS made my best size gains not going much more than 6 reps. Many say the set should last somewhere from 30 to 90 seconds, and I say BULLSHIT ;D I think sets shouldn't last much longer than 20 seconds. Also, as far as "extending the set goes" some say that doing so creates too great of an "inroad" into recovery ability.
probably because that is when you were getting the strongest. load is the most important factor, but time under tension is second. so youl get biggest fastest by getting strongest fastest, = lifting lower reps/heavy weights.  but at a certain point strength gains start to become very difficult, once your close to your complete strength potential (lets say benching 500lbs raw), and at this point your probably better off trying to increase the amount of reps you can get with the heavy weight, instead of tryinng for further increases in workload. thats why i said guys should focus on powerlifting untill they lift big weights, and then focus on adding reps/sets while using the big weights.

recovery is always of the essence, its a personal matter i think, one youve got to work out on your own. a wise man once told me, the first set you do where intensity/strength has decreased, thats when you start over training= once strength has decreased, youe done as much as you can do in one workout.

my theory on overtraining is that the muscle responds to load and tension, but both of those can cause muscle damage (aka microtears). the more microtears you have, the harder it will be to recover. you want to maximize the growth stimulation with load and tension, while making sure that your not fucking up the muscle too badly. usually, at least in my own experience, the muscle will get weaker and feel a bit numb once ive reached a point in my workout where i would be overtraining to continue. rest time between sets, whether or not im training to failure, total weight(rep range), and what ive eaten before hand all effect how long i can train before overtraining. when i take long rest sets, stay away from failure, and have some carbs with my pre workout meal i can train longer and get better results.

one more thing i would add.. once youve reached the point in a workout wher eyour muscle is weaker, and you would be overtraining if you kept lifting hard... you can still do a few light weight/high rep pump sets and this wont be overtraining, so long as you stop them shy of exhaustion. and doing this helps with recovery and growth.

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #208 on: January 08, 2011, 03:42:41 PM »
fatpanda is right on the money for the most part. the one area i would disagree is lets say your one rep max is 405. you stick with 405 for a few months till you can rep it 10 times. load did not increase, but you will have grown quite a bit.

and while i agree about load being the most important factor, i dont think its necessary to say che is lying. he is only claiming to have gained a few lbs per year, and i think that is probably do-able if your eating right and doing tons of pumping, squeezing, drop sets, etc with moderate weight on all muscle groups. he has posted pics and looked pretty good, but he was a small dude..like a buck 70 at his prime. i know alot of black guys who can be 160-170 ripped without much exercise.



He is about 5'9 isn't he? He looks about a 1000 times better natty as you do on gear. ::)

Show me anybody who looks built, that meaning thick chest, 16 inch arms, developed thighs naturally without training. Bullshit.

Why don't all of those tribesman out in Africa look like that? I would say they get a bit of exercise.


As i said previously i like lifting heavy but to say that other methods of training don't work is ignorant.

Past a certain level of load i think the body reacts through growth. Bearing in mind that strength platau's, or are you suggesting that once you have hit your strength limit that you have also hit your growth limit? No way........

Does somebody want to explain to me how gymnasts get such good physiques without using classic progressive overload?
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JP_RC

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #209 on: January 08, 2011, 03:56:41 PM »


He is about 5'9 isn't he? He looks about a 1000 times better natty as you do on gear. ::)

Show me anybody who looks built, that meaning thick chest, 16 inch arms, developed thighs naturally without training. Bullshit.

Why don't all of those tribesman out in Africa look like that? I would say they get a bit of exercise.


As i said previously i like lifting heavy but to say that other methods of training don't work is ignorant.

Past a certain level of load i think the body reacts through growth. Bearing in mind that strength platau's, or are you suggesting that once you have hit your strength limit that you have also hit your growth limit? No way........

Does somebody want to explain to me how gymnasts get such good physiques without using classic progressive overload?

They do use classic overload to get their physiques, but after a while they don't get any bigger. Its like the initial shock of their exercises makes them gain muscle, but after a while they stay the same simply because they do the same..they never increase their workload.

Jaime

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #210 on: January 08, 2011, 04:05:15 PM »
They do use classic overload to get their physiques, but after a while they don't get any bigger. Its like the initial shock of their exercises makes them gain muscle, but after a while they stay the same simply because they do the same..they never increase their workload.


Remembering the fact they are midgets, so their weight is never going to be high, i would classify it as reaching their genetic potential.
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dj181

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #211 on: January 08, 2011, 04:15:54 PM »
Serious question, how many of y'all DON'T lose strength after the 1st work set? I ALWAYS lose strength after my 1st work set, and I rest at least 5 min btw work sets. For example, if I do 100 pound db rows for 5 reps til failure, I ALWAYS do less reps the next work set, even if I rest 10 min btw sets.

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #212 on: January 08, 2011, 04:17:53 PM »
Serious question, how many of y'all DON'T lose strength after the 1st work set? I ALWAYS lose strength after my 1st work set, and I rest at least 5 min btw work sets. For example, if I do 100 pound db rows for 5 reps til failure, I ALWAYS do less reps the next work set, even if I rest 10 min btw sets.


Yeah i always lose strength after first work set, i always rep to failure though. Not sure about the rest period affect as i never have that long between sets.
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tbombz

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #213 on: January 08, 2011, 05:44:50 PM »


He is about 5'9 isn't he? He looks about a 1000 times better natty as you do on gear. ::)

Show me anybody who looks built, that meaning thick chest, 16 inch arms, developed thighs naturally without training. Bullshit.

Why don't all of those tribesman out in Africa look like that? I would say they get a bit of exercise.


As i said previously i like lifting heavy but to say that other methods of training don't work is ignorant.

Past a certain level of load i think the body reacts through growth. Bearing in mind that strength platau's, or are you suggesting that once you have hit your strength limit that you have also hit your growth limit? No way........

Does somebody want to explain to me how gymnasts get such good physiques without using classic progressive overload?
i dont think i see anything in your post that was actually disagreeing with what i wrote. if you were trying to debate the subject, and not just try to insult me or sound smart, then i suggest yuou to try re-word or re-think your post..  :-\

Serious question, how many of y'all DON'T lose strength after the 1st work set? I ALWAYS lose strength after my 1st work set, and I rest at least 5 min btw work sets. For example, if I do 100 pound db rows for 5 reps til failure, I ALWAYS do less reps the next work set, even if I rest 10 min btw sets.
depends. if your work to failure or within a couple reps of it then you will probably lose strength after the first set. if you stay a few reps shy of failure you might even gain strength after your first work set, and usually wont lose strength untill after 4-5 good heavy sets.  this is why i prefer sub-failure training.

che

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #214 on: January 08, 2011, 06:02:53 PM »
I did  progressive overload   the first 2-3 years since I started lifting and it got to a point I couldn't lift any heavier because my weak joints  but still made improvements (gain muscles ) after that  .
My point was you can still improve even if you can't add any more  weight to your lifts, as for myself  If I could I would add more weight to my bench , squat ........etc.

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #215 on: January 08, 2011, 06:04:40 PM »
I did  progressive overload   the first 2-3 years since I started lifting and it got to a point I couldn't lift any heavier because my weak joints  but still made improvements (gain muscles ) after that  .
My point was you can still improve even if you can't add any more  weight to your lifts, as for myself  If I could I would add more weight to my bench , squat ........etc.
You can, you're just lazy.
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Marty Champions

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #216 on: January 08, 2011, 06:06:16 PM »
alot of guys in this thread are making progressing in there weights, poundages and workouts AMAZING! THIS MUST BE THE KEY THEN
A

chaos

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #217 on: January 08, 2011, 06:07:31 PM »
alot of guys in this thread are making progressing in there weights, poundages and workouts AMAZING! THIS MUST BE THE KEY THEN
Johnny..........I know the secret.......would you like me to share it with you?
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che

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #218 on: January 08, 2011, 06:07:41 PM »

chaos

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #219 on: January 08, 2011, 06:09:05 PM »
So is your mom
She's tired from trying to abuse us kids.

Didn't work! :D
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tbombz

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #220 on: January 08, 2011, 06:10:00 PM »
I did  progressive overload   the first 2-3 years since I started lifting and it got to a point I couldn't lift any heavier because my weak joints  but still made improvements (gain muscles ) after that  .
My point was you can still improve even if you can't add any more  weight to your lifts, as for myself  If I could I would add more weight to my bench , squat ........etc.
 you do have a point. you are the proof. but as you admit, you didnt lift heavier because you were physically limited, not because you didnt think training heavier would help you gain better. the point is that kind of training is not optimal. it works for slow progress and theres nothing wrong with that, especially for a lean guy who just wants to look good naked. for guys interested in getting FUCKING MASSIVE..  they want to find whats optimal, and that means getting as strong as possible.

dj181

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #221 on: January 08, 2011, 06:10:11 PM »
Well, I kinda do it that way, coz my set/rep protocol is usuall 3 sets of 6, so if I get 6 reps for the 1st set and it is not til failure, I stop at the 6th rep. And then, once I can do 3 sets of 6 reps, then I will increase the weight next workout. And I ain't hating on ya man, but when I saw you mention working up to bping 500 pounds for reps I just had to ROFL man! Shit dude! Us natural fellas ain't no supermen ;D I think that ANYBODY that can get a handful of good clean reps at 315 is a true badass, natural or enhanced, but who knows? Maybe I just some "weak f@g" ;D

che

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #222 on: January 08, 2011, 06:10:26 PM »
She's tired from trying to abuse us kids.

Didn't work! :D
 ;D

Marty Champions

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #223 on: January 08, 2011, 06:11:29 PM »
im making progressions in my poundages just reading this inspirational thread!!!!!
A

tbombz

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Re: What is "Progressive Overload"?
« Reply #224 on: January 08, 2011, 06:12:21 PM »
Well, I kinda do it that way, coz my set/rep protocol is usuall 3 sets of 6, so if I get 6 reps for the 1st set and it is not til failure, I stop at the 6th rep. And then, once I can do 3 sets of 6 reps, then I will increase the weight next workout. And I ain't hating on ya man, but when I saw you mention working up to bping 500 pounds for reps I just had to ROFL man! Shit dude! Us natural fellas ain't no supermen ;D I think that ANYBODY that can get a handful of good clean reps at 315 is a true badass, natural or enhanced, but who knows? Maybe I just some "weak f@g" ;D
that sounds like a good method.

i benched 415 for three singles today. my goal is to hit 495 before 2012. (chest has always been my weak point)