Author Topic: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes  (Read 2094 times)

blacken700

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TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« on: December 17, 2010, 10:36:17 AM »


this is america baby, the rich always come first :o

Soul Crusher

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2010, 10:41:05 AM »
Most of those firefighters are aready covered under theit health polices and this is turning into another heist of the taxpayer. 

Straw Man

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2010, 10:51:27 AM »
Most of those firefighters are aready covered under theit health polices and this is turning into another heist of the taxpayer. 

doesn't seem like that's totally accurate

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-december-16-2010/9-11-first-responders-react-to-the-senate-filibuster

Soul Crusher

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2010, 10:55:59 AM »
I read that they added union crap in the bill as well as a whole host of other crappola in the bill. 

I was down there this morning and feel for these guys, but please - this is going to be another mess where there are tons of fraudulent claims, rip offs, etc. 


blacken700

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2010, 10:58:29 AM »
something about blocking this bill stinks >:(  most of these fuc ers will use 911 in their election comercials


MANHATTAN — The 9/11 health bill was shot down on Capital Hill Thursday night after failing to attain the two thirds majority necessary for passage in the House.

The bill, known as the Zadroga Act in honor of fallen 9/11 first responder James Zadroga, would guarantee the long-term operations of health care programs set up years ago for first responders and residents who were hurt or became ill in the aftermath of the terror attacks on the World Trade Center.

The 255-to-159 vote fell short of the two-thirds margin needed under special procedural rules that were used to bring the measure to the floor. The vote went mostly down party lines with 243 Democrats and 12 Republicans in favor of the bill and 155 Republicans and 4 Democrats opposed.

First responders battle clouds of dust and smoke at Ground Zero in October 2001. (AP Photo/Stan Honda)Following the vote, New York Rep. Anthony Weiner took to the floor to make an angry, fist-thumping speech in which he accused Republicans of hiding behind objections to the procedural rules at play, including limited debate on the bill and no amendments, when they voted against it.


“You vote yes if you believe yes,” he yelled furiously, rapping the podium with his fist. “You vote in favor of something if you believe it’s the right thing."

"I will not stand here and listen to my colleagues say 'if only I had a different procedure that allows us to stall, stall and then vote no!'" Weiner continued, saying that Republicans did not do the "right thing on behalf of the heroes."

Republican opponents of the bill have argued that the measure, which would pay up to $7.4 billion in compensation to victims, was not tenable at a time of ballooning federal deficits.

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg blasted the outcome of the vote and criticized both parties.

"It was wrong for the overwhelming majority of Republicans to vote against the bill," Bloomberg told reporters, "and it was wrong for Democrats to bring the bill to the floor under rules that made passage so much more difficult."

Thursday’s vote occurred under suspension of House rules, which is usually used for non-controversial legislation and limits the debate on the bill, prohibits amendments from being added and requires a two-thirds majority to pass.

Although the bill did not pass the House Thursday, New York Reps. Carolyn Maloney, Jerrold Nadler and Peter King, the bill's sponsors, said that the 255 votes in favor of the bill — which included 11 Republicans in addition to King — show that the Zadroga Act has the support of the majority and is likely to pass when it comes up again under "normal rules."

"We will not rest until we finally provide proper care for ailing 9/11 responders and survivors, and fill the last remaining gap in America’s recovery from the attacks. Nine long years after the attacks, the living victims of 9/11 are still suffering. We must pass this bill. It is the least we can do as a grateful nation," New York City’s congressmen said in a joint statement.



Read more: http://www.dnainfo.com/20100730/manhattan/911-health-care-bill-fails-house#ixzz18OevAJsj

Soul Crusher

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2010, 11:00:36 AM »
are not most of these people already covered by virtue of working for the FD or PD as it is? 

Straw Man

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2010, 11:06:00 AM »
are not most of these people already covered by virtue of working for the FD or PD as it is? 

did you bother to watch the video?

Stewart intevies four 911 first responders and they talk about what happens with their health coverage etc.. when they go on disability for this specific reason

tonymctones

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2010, 11:08:59 AM »
LOL bringing it up now instead of the past 2 years, when the reps said they would block any legislation other than the tax cut extension...

hmmmmmmm, political grandstanding perhaps?

Soul Crusher

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2010, 11:11:11 AM »
did you bother to watch the video?

Stewart intevies four 911 first responders and they talk about what happens with their health coverage etc.. when they go on disability for this specific reason

This thing has been in the news here 24/7 but it seems that any joe can sign up for this. 

blacken700

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2010, 11:31:47 AM »
there are going to be f ckers that take advantage of it that's a fact. but we should help the ones that are suffering

Straw Man

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2010, 11:58:55 AM »
Here's all you need to know about the current state of the Senate


Soul Crusher

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2010, 12:00:38 PM »
Yeah straw - if only we had Cap & Traitor, Dream ACT, and all the other marxist/communist shit eminating from Obama/Pelosi allwould be perfect now.   ::)  ::)

Straw Man

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2010, 12:02:56 PM »
Yeah straw - if only we had Cap & Traitor, Dream ACT, and all the other marxist/communist shit eminating from Obama/Pelosi allwould be perfect now.   ::)  ::)

more like if we only had majority rule

right now we have a tiny majority that can literally shut down our government

as we all know, Repubs put their party before the good of our country or our people and if the country has to suffer for two more years so they can score politically that's exactly what they will do


Soul Crusher

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2010, 12:06:56 PM »
more like if we only had majority rule

right now we have a tiny majority that can literally shut down our government

as we all know, Repubs put their party before the good of our country or our people and if the country has to suffer for two more years so they can score politically that's exactly what they will do



Good.  I dont want 51 Senators beig able to impose communism, price hikes, draconian bs, and crazy taxes on me with 51 votes.


guess what Straw - when the GOP takes over the Senate in 2012 which is going to happen - you will feel exactly the same way.     

Straw Man

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2010, 01:47:04 PM »
Good.  I dont want 51 Senators beig able to impose communism, price hikes, draconian bs, and crazy taxes on me with 51 votes.


guess what Straw - when the GOP takes over the Senate in 2012 which is going to happen - you will feel exactly the same way.     

right now you can have 1 Senator stop all work from getting done.

I know you actually like that but most people (including most people in the Senate) don't

There is a chance (I think slim but possible) that the rule will change on the first day of the new congress and I'd be fine with that

It would help both sides equally and it woudl ensure that legislation that is passed in the house is not killed in the Senate by 1 or 2 cranks (from either party)

the new blood wants it but the old farts who have been there for years

Kazan

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2010, 01:47:26 PM »
more like if we only had majority rule

right now we have a tiny majority that can literally shut down our government

as we all know, Repubs put their party before the good of our country or our people and if the country has to suffer for two more years so they can score politically that's exactly what they will do



We live in a representative republic, so there is no majority rule. There is a reason for that.
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Straw Man

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2010, 10:12:24 AM »
We live in a representative republic, so there is no majority rule. There is a reason for that.

true but the strucuture of our government doesn't have anything to do with the weird rules of the Senate which allow single senators to hold up legislation with "secret holds" or allow them to endlessly debate ammendment to kill legislation, etc..

Soul Crusher

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2010, 10:15:22 AM »
true but the strucuture of our government doesn't have anything to do with the weird rules of the Senate which allow single senators to hold up legislation with "secret holds" or allow them to endlessly debate ammendment to kill legislation, etc..

Straw -trust me - as frustrating as it is for you that many of things you want done that are not happening due to these crazy rules, you will be happy they are in place when and if the GOP takes back the senate and tries to ram through all sorts of crap you find utterly appauling and disgusting. 

 

Straw Man

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2010, 10:25:27 AM »
Straw -trust me - as frustrating as it is for you that many of things you want done that are not happening due to these crazy rules, you will be happy they are in place when and if the GOP takes back the senate and tries to ram through all sorts of crap you find utterly appauling and disgusting.  

it would help the institution to work better

right now it's completely dysfunctional


MM2K

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2010, 01:16:17 AM »
Wow. What a dumb bitch. What is so pathetic about contemporary liberalism is the creation of false dichotamies like tax cuts for "the rich" and benefits for 9/11 responders. Your'e talking about letting people keep more of thier money versus setting up a brand new slush fund for injured public servants on the job.
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MM2K

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2010, 01:22:49 AM »
more like if we only had majority rule

right now we have a tiny majority that can literally shut down our government

as we all know, Repubs put their party before the good of our country or our people and if the country has to suffer for two more years so they can score politically that's exactly what they will do



Oh please. The Democrats still have a defacto supermajority and had a real super majority one year ago. If you cant keep your entire party together and get one of 3 liberal Republicans from Maine and Massachusettes, you are a sorry sack of shit party that is radical and mentally deranged. THe truth of the matter is that this Congress will go down in history as one of the worst ever. Definately the worst in my lifetime. What an embarassing performance, and the apologists who have the gall to defend them are equally as embarassing.
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garebear

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2010, 05:29:04 AM »
Oh please. The Democrats still have a defacto supermajority and had a real super majority one year ago. If you cant keep your entire party together and get one of 3 liberal Republicans from Maine and Massachusettes, you are a sorry sack of shit party that is radical and mentally deranged. THe truth of the matter is that this Congress will go down in history as one of the worst ever. Definately the worst in my lifetime. What an embarassing performance, and the apologists who have the gall to defend them are equally as embarassing.
Right after the elections, many Republicans came out and said that we needed a tax cut for the wealthy. They also weren't worried about how it was going to be paid for.

As for groups such as these responders, or the middle class losing unemployment benefits or getting their own tax cut, a qualifier was added - we must figure out a way to pay for it first.

I just don't get your attitude, unless you are a wealthy person. In fact, even if you are rich, it doesn't make it morally correct to do, just consistent with seeking your self interest.

Do you think that rich people are in a class above, say, the members of the military? What about a married couple working a combined 80+ hours a week that can hardly put food on the table?

Are these lesser Americans to you?
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MM2K

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2010, 10:08:15 PM »
Right after the elections, many Republicans came out and said that we needed a tax cut for the wealthy. They also weren't worried about how it was going to be paid for.

As for groups such as these responders, or the middle class losing unemployment benefits or getting their own tax cut, a qualifier was added - we must figure out a way to pay for it first.

I just don't get your attitude, unless you are a wealthy person. In fact, even if you are rich, it doesn't make it morally correct to do, just consistent with seeking your self interest.

Do you think that rich people are in a class above, say, the members of the military? What about a married couple working a combined 80+ hours a week that can hardly put food on the table?

Are these lesser Americans to you?

No, actually Republicans just didnt want taxes raised on anybody. They werent looking for a tax cut. If you dont cut taxes before you cut spending, you will never cut spending OR taxes. I dont try to group people in classes. I dont understand why you are saying that I am trying to group them in a higher class if I dont want their already vastly larger tax percentage to go up. My problem with tax hikes on the rich is that they hurt not only rich people but they also hurt poor people. They hurt everybody. Poor people's jobs and incomes depend on rich people investing and consuming. Guess what? If thier taxes go up they have less to consume and invest. That means less jobs for poor people.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2010, 04:53:04 AM »
All the govt will do w more money is piss it away and waste it and find other new creative ways to screw w us. 

Starve the beast! 

whork25

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Re: TOOL TIME: Choosing Rich over Heroes
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2010, 05:10:54 AM »
Wow. What a dumb bitch. What is so pathetic about contemporary liberalism is the creation of false dichotamies like tax cuts for "the rich" and benefits for 9/11 responders. Your'e talking about letting people keep more of thier money versus setting up a brand new slush fund for injured public servants on the job.

No we are talking about giving more money to people who are already filthy rich, instead of using them on people who ACTUALLY need them