for the guy who asked if insulin-resistance from GH-therapy is temporary

[disco_stu]

the problem in this argument is that gh15 is so dumb he cant understand correlation properly.

he thinks that just because you add a chemical to another one, and the other one had maxed out, then if you get gains then those new gains are attributable to the new chemical.

This of course is simpleton thinking, and why BBs take loads of everything.

The reality is that GH doesnt cause muscle growth. GH allows the anabolic steroids to work far more effectively by creating a rich growth environment. those who use GH on its own benefit from it by being able to retain muscle and get lean, whereas those who use AAS and GH get much more out of the AAS thanks to the GH.

That doesnt mean GH grows muscle.

its pretty fucking simple, and its backed up by controlled double blind data AND anecdotes.

[disco_stu]

oh nonono my friend,,5 iu of legit gh take anadrol and dbol at 300mg each ....and wipe the windows with them,,,for not to forget! gh create new NEW cells fibers in your muscles,,it creates M U T A T I O N ,,you will sudenly flex and see the fibers moving ....why? because you get leaner and larger muscularatory ,,less body fat on frame and more muscle mass not only due to less bodyfat but due to both less body fat and newwwwwwwwww creating of  muscle fibers that in return double and triple the lean mass on frame that gets bodybuilder leaner and leaner while growing and growing,,EVEN AT 5 IU ,,to some it work very well even at 2 iu but its just take much much longer,,

gh shoudl alwasys be prefered on any anabolic steroid BECAUSE,,when you arrrd done with gh therapy and go on steroids or even while on gh you BLOW UP TO NEW DIMENTIONS UNSEEN BEFORE ON YOU ,,you suddenly see females actually staring at your chest insted of your face whilw taking order for chiken wings at americana hooters,,you sundely see people stop what they do and just stare in awe and disbelief of how you got so 3 dimentional large from within,,,then they think few min and go do some side laterals ...they think they need to work the shoulders more to look like you ,,they dont get it ,,they dont get that bodybuilding is ALL IN THE GH lol

gh15 approved

you really dont have a fucking clue. it must be bliss to be so dumb and ignorant. i mean, nothing about the world could perplex you as everything is a challenge isnt it?

[tbombz]

the problem in this argument is that gh15 is so dumb he cant understand correlation properly.

he thinks that just because you add a chemical to another one, and the other one had maxed out, then if you get gains then those new gains are attributable to the new chemical.

This of course is simpleton thinking, and why BBs take loads of everything.

The reality is that GH doesnt cause muscle growth. GH allows the anabolic steroids to work far more effectively by creating a rich growth environment. those who use GH on its own benefit from it by being able to retain muscle and get lean, whereas those who use AAS and GH get much more out of the AAS thanks to the GH.

That doesnt mean GH grows muscle.

its pretty fucking simple, and its backed up by controlled double blind data AND anecdotes.

No, your only partially right. A Big reason why GH helps build muscle is because it allows one to eat more food without it going to fat, forcing muscles to use it and thus grow. But that is not the only GH directly causes anabolic processes to go into action, and causes the muscles to become more sensitive to training as well.

[dj181]

Ok, but does gh really cause hyperplasia ie. creation of new muscle cells? And if it really does, then it should create a very dense look on the muscles, because more muscle fibers would make the muscles look denser and more tightly packed.

[gh15]

the problem in this argument is that gh15 is so dumb he cant understand correlation properly.

he thinks that just because you add a chemical to another one, and the other one had maxed out, then if you get gains then those new gains are attributable to the new chemical.

This of course is simpleton thinking, and why BBs take loads of everything.

The reality is that GH doesnt cause muscle growth. GH allows the anabolic steroids to work far more effectively by creating a rich growth environment. those who use GH on its own benefit from it by being able to retain muscle and get lean, whereas those who use AAS and GH get much more out of the AAS thanks to the GH.

That doesnt mean GH grows muscle.

its pretty fucking simple, and its backed up by controlled double blind data AND anecdotes.

i was about to go bazzook on you my retarded friend,,but after reading your shit couple times you said exactly what gh15 says which i cant be mad abotu because its what i preach ,,

GH GROWS MUSCLE VIA MEANS OF INCREASING MUSCLE FIBERS,,NO AAS = MUSCLE WILL BE RETAINED AND YOU WILL GET LEANER VIA MORE MUCLE FIBER ADDED AND LOSS OF BF AS A RESULT AND OFCOURE LOSS OF BF PERIOD,,ADD AAS AND YOU START WHAT WE CALL M U T A T I O N ,,THUS THE MUSCLE FIBER GH CREATED!! WILL BE BLOWN UP BY THE USAGE OF STEROIDS ,,THE HIGHER THE DOSE THE BIGGER YOULL GET,,LARGER AND BIGGER SINCE I CONSIDER LARGE AND BIG LITTLE DIFFERENT BUT WONT GO INTO IT RIGHT NOW


gh15 approved

[gh15]

Ok, but does gh really cause hyperplasia ie. creation of new muscle cells? And if it really does, then it should create a very dense look on the muscles, because more muscle fibers would make the muscles look denser and more tightly packed.

yes,,gh creates more mucle fibers,,it doesnt mean more dense because dense is a condition that you achieve of muscle ,,gh increase muscle fibers and how can you tell it? because at 10% on gh you will be able to see muscle fibers while flexing arms pecs etc ,,they will be visible at same 10% at 220 when before hand at 220 13% they were not,,a true reduction of bf at 220 from 13 to 10 percent would result in fella going down to 205-210 weight,,with gh it allow you to stay at 220 while losing the fat,,why? because it increases the muscle fibers and thus grow your muscles via steroids which in return show muscle fibers pushing through skin at a bf level that before wasnt possible ,,10% back in the 60s didnt show much muscle fiber a of 10% now days,, remember gh15 does not talk insulin intro to body only gh and aas,,

gh15 approved

[dj181]

Allright, and the reason that 10% didn't show in the 60s was because guys weren't as thickly muscled then as they are now, right? For example, my pic at sub-6 didn't look as impressive as a much larger fella at sub-6 due to the fact that I'm a natural trainer standing 5'11" at 155 sub-6, and that just isn't thickly muscled enough. And so I guess that if I weighed 180 at sub-8 it would look similar to my smaller sub-6 with 25 less pounds on me right? I was trained by an elite powerlifter/bench press specialist who told me this exact same thing. Basically the more muscle that you have the easier it is to look very lean, even at a higher bodyfat.

[Captain Equipoise]

I believe FOR muscle building GH WITHOUT steroids is just ok, definetly taking gear and insulin WITH it is what makes all the difference, for examples just look at a lot of the guys that don't work out but take GH for it's fountain of youth effect.. though on the same side GH + GEAR = INSANE results.

[flinstones1]

The key here is... DOES GH REALLY CREATE NEW MUSCLE CELLS? And if oui, then it is DA BOMB Dat fat burning aspect of it is quite important as well

 I believe it does. First of all we know gh makes igf through the liver which gh15 said many times. We all know how important igf is for muscle growth. One thing to keep in mind is patients with acromology are usually much larger than most people. How do you test for acromology? IGF levels. Now if 4 IU elevates your igf levels a little bit, and 10 IU elevates them by a shitload, how can one justify that anything more than 4 IU is a waste like that fella with the forhead...dave p his name?

[flinstones1]

No, your only partially right. A Big reason why GH helps build muscle is because it allows one to eat more food without it going to fat, forcing muscles to use it and thus grow. But that is not the only GH directly causes anabolic processes to go into action, and causes the muscles to become more sensitive to training as well.

boom.  probably one of the best posts on getbig. tbombz putting twinks in place
in my opinion if you decide to take steroids only and not use gh, you better have above average genetic response to AAS, you have to get strong as fuck, you better have high natural gh levels, you better pound the food. and even if you do you STILL may not look impressive.

Joe A takes ton of steroids...  lifts heavy weights for five years.....but is stuck at 215 10 percent bf.
Joe B takes 5 IU of gh and is 220  6 percent bf in 1 year curling 40 pound dumbells eating whatever he want

gh15 tells you guys over and over and you dont get it! bodybuilding is seriously fucked up.It really is that easy. Wann know how those guys in your gym are 220 6 pecent with cannon ball pressing 75 on shoulders... yet you use 120 pounds for shoulder and delts still suck on more test and dbol than a elephant?  GH!

[lesaucer]

boom.  probably one of the best posts on getbig. tbombz putting twinks in place
in my opinion if you decide to take steroids only and not use gh, you better have above average genetic response to AAS, you have to get strong as fuck, you better have high natural gh levels, you better pound the food. and even if you do you STILL may not look impressive.

Joe A takes ton of steroids...  lifts heavy weights for five years.....but is stuck at 215 10 percent bf.
Joe B takes 5 IU of gh and is 220  6 percent bf in 1 year curling 40 pound dumbells eating whatever he want

gh15 tells you guys over and over and you dont get it! bodybuilding is seriously fucked up.It really is that easy. Wann know how those guys in your gym are 220 6 pecent with cannon ball delts yet you use 120 pounds for shoulder and delts still suck on more test and dbol than a elephant?  GH!

neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedddd ggghhhhhh 

[Shockwave]

Hahah Disco_stu is probably near meltdown from everyone agreeing with GH15.
Hahahahaha

[Meso_z]

boom.  probably one of the best posts on getbig. tbombz putting twinks in place
in my opinion if you decide to take steroids only and not use gh, you better have above average genetic response to AAS, you have to get strong as fuck, you better have high natural gh levels, you better pound the food. and even if you do you STILL may not look impressive.

Joe A takes ton of steroids...  lifts heavy weights for five years.....but is stuck at 215 10 percent bf.
Joe B takes 5 IU of gh and is 220  6 percent bf in 1 year curling 40 pound dumbells eating whatever he want

gh15 tells you guys over and over and you dont get it! bodybuilding is seriously fucked up.It really is that easy. Wann know how those guys in your gym are 220 6 pecent with cannon ball pressing 75 on shoulders... yet you use 120 pounds for shoulder and delts still suck on more test and dbol than a elephant?  GH!

You make it sound like its magic, which isnt. Sure its a great addition to a cycle, nothing more nothing less..but then again, havent used hgh so i cant tell. have you?

[gh15]

You make it sound like its magic, which isnt. Sure its a great addition to a cycle, nothing more nothing less..but then again, havent used hgh so i cant tell. have you?

the thing is that it is magic,,there is a big behind the scene effort ,,combined one,,to minimize how magical legit gh is,,its done by.....you got that right the one who want more for themselves,,the ones who actually look like bodybuilders and are bodybuilders,,its them who minimize its importance while they know that gh is the reason they look the way they do ,,

gh is MAGIC,,YOU CAN EAT SHIT ,,YOU CAN EAT LOTS OF SHIT AND AS LONG AS MACROS ARE IN PROTIEN CARBS MAINLY YOU WILL GROW LEAN ,,GROWING LEAN MEANING ADD LEAN MUSCLE WHILE REDUCING BODYFAT AS A RESULT AND OFCOURSE LOSING BODYFAT WITH NO CONNECTION TO MUSCLE ADDED WHICH MAKE IT DOUBLE BENEFIT,,

now! if you actually eat right on gh ,,and prep ,,and you actually keep your diet intact,,and cheat once in a while but keep things contant ...you will look like a large muscular thick skeletor,,you will be shredded and peeled,,but when on hgh inorder to look lean at 8% and being big you dont even haev to have diet,,infact even for 6% you dont if you do it long enough ,,for under 6 you do

hgh is MAGIC ,,especially at higher doses but also at 5 iu ,,big magic at 5 iu HUGE MAGIC AT 15

gh15 approved

[gh15]

also friends,,not to forget! the one who really care about lookin more natural and looking like they blessed with good genetic they are very particular at what they do ,,what i mean by that pupils ill explain

a fella like kyoshi mooshoo,,will know exactly what he is doing to the t ,,take aside the disghusting liar he is ,,when it comes to his drug work he knows exactly that he need to prime body with gh ,,he does it ,,he doesnt even have to use many kit,,he use 2 kits or 3 prime body ,,do it for 50 day then go off and introduce anabolics for the blow up phase,,doesnt have to be together,,doesnt have to be the effects hgh does on hands,,it can be with minize side effect of gh with ame final benefit if know how to use it right which usually mean you compete" natural"....meaning you know how to work with drugs and decieve the system,,everyone think oh hgh better be 8 month 6 month,,BALONIE 6 week is enough for starting grow needed with aas,,then you take some break then hoopla on again ,,ofcourse you can stay on forever and go top npc competitor but to each his own ,,in any case end result is pretty similar and its mainly dose dependent not duration ,,duration matter to some degree....dose matter MUCH MUCH MORE

gh15 approved

[Meso_z]

the thing is that it is magic,,there is a big behind the scene effort ,,combined one,,to minimize how magical legit gh is,,its done by.....you got that right the one who want more for themselves,,the ones who actually look like bodybuilders and are bodybuilders,,its them who minimize its importance while they know that gh is the reason they look the way they do ,,

gh is MAGIC,,YOU CAN EAT SHIT ,,YOU CAN EAT LOTS OF SHIT AND AS LONG AS MACROS ARE IN PROTIEN CARBS MAINLY YOU WILL GROW LEAN ,,GROWING LEAN MEANING ADD LEAN MUSCLE WHILE REDUCING BODYFAT AS A RESULT AND OFCOURSE LOSING BODYFAT WITH NO CONNECTION TO MUSCLE ADDED WHICH MAKE IT DOUBLE BENEFIT,,

now! if you actually eat right on gh ,,and prep ,,and you actually keep your diet intact,,and cheat once in a while but keep things contant ...you will look like a large muscular thick skeletor,,you will be shredded and peeled,,but when on hgh inorder to look lean at 8% and being big you dont even haev to have diet,,infact even for 6% you dont if you do it long enough ,,for under 6 you do

hgh is MAGIC ,,especially at higher doses but also at 5 iu ,,big magic at 5 iu HUGE MAGIC AT 15

gh15 approved

Ok, hook me up. 

[pellius]

also friends,,not to forget! the one who really care about lookin more natural and looking like they blessed with good genetic they are very particular at what they do ,,what i mean by that pupils ill explain

a fella like kyoshi mooshoo,,will know exactly what he is doing to the t ,,take aside the disghusting liar he is ,,when it comes to his drug work he knows exactly that he need to prime body with gh ,,he does it ,,he doesnt even have to use many kit,,he use 2 kits or 3 prime body ,,do it for 50 day then go off and introduce anabolics for the blow up phase,,doesnt have to be together,,doesnt have to be the effects hgh does on hands,,it can be with minize side effect of gh with ame final benefit if know how to use it right which usually mean you compete" natural"....meaning you know how to work with drugs and decieve the system,,everyone think oh hgh better be 8 month 6 month,,BALONIE 6 week is enough for starting grow needed with aas,,then you take some break then hoopla on again ,,ofcourse you can stay on forever and go top npc competitor but to each his own ,,in any case end result is pretty similar and its mainly dose dependent not duration ,,duration matter to some degree....dose matter MUCH MUCH MORE

gh15 approved

But Moody is already 40 years old. Do you think he ever gets completely off HGH? His body isn't producing much on it's own so wouldn't he shrink quickly even on AAS if he wasn't on at least some kind of maintenance dose of HGH?

[Alex23]

the thing is that it is magic,,there is a big behind the scene effort ,,combined one,,to minimize how magical legit gh is,,its done by.....you got that right the one who want more for themselves,,the ones who actually look like bodybuilders and are bodybuilders,,its them who minimize its importance while they know that gh is the reason they look the way they do

Never thought of it so directly...

Right there is good.

Why do you keep avoiding me gh15?

[dj181]

Can someone please post no1 Scott Alexander's current pic here? I'd like to hear God's all-knowing and infalliable assesment of no1's true bodyfat level. Also, God can tell us how many iu's of gh no1 is using

[gh15]

But Moody is already 40 years old. Do you think he ever gets completely off HGH? His body isn't producing much on it's own so wouldn't he shrink quickly even on AAS if he wasn't on at least some kind of maintenance dose of HGH?

you got to get off gh inorder to lose the wateer weigth comletely and see how chizeled you are within 2-3 weeks thats the key no matter what age you are,,and as said in bible 30 times....gh give you window of 6-12 months where you cant and wont shrink if you follow with aas that mean you can stop gh and you will continue grow for 6-12 months usuallly dose and duraqtion depenendnt but with most gym rat closer to 6 months,,you wont shrink you wil only continnue to deveklop[ and grow the new muscle fibers hgh created while you been on for your 50 days 100 days 150 days etc

also if you have a break of gh for a week or 2  in a long term usage ,,nothing will happen unles break came after 14 days ,,,if break came after over a month and the break is small nothing will happen ,,again thi is talking about a 10 day break not 2 month break

gh15 approved

[flinstones1]

 insulin  still will always fuck you up in the end like gh15 said before.

However I think hgh in bbing doses, without insulin is asking for problems. You are at risk for becoming type2 diabetic by not using exogenous insulin with your gh..   here is something from anabolics 2006

Q: Can you stay on GH indefinitely since it possesses virtually no toxicity?

A: The only problem I've noticed with prolonged use of large doses of growth hormone (GH) is the possible insulin resistance that can occur. GH is a fat-mobilizing hormone that appears to compete either directly with insulin or by interfering with insulin receptors on the surface of the muscle cells. Remember, if insulin can't reach its target tissues, then it can't drive glucose and amino acids into the cells. This all-too-familiar scenario among off-season bodybuilders creates a sort of insulin resistance that will impede muscle gains and result in a "flat" looking physique.  

maybe tbombz or Van can clear this up for me.

[Jaime]

i back dragon up here.

scientifically speaking there has not been a single study that has shown gh to have any muscle building properties worth talking about.

certainly none worth the deadly life reducing risks.

Broscience trumps studies apparently.

[Van_Bilderass]

However I think hgh in bbing doses, without insulin is asking for problems. You are at risk for becoming type2 diabetic by not using exogenous insulin with your gh..  

If by Type II diabetes you mean what is usually meant, i.e. insulin resistant cells then no, I don't see how extra insulin prevents this. Milos has talked about how high carb diets can kill your pancreas and that exogenous insulin can prevent it. Even if true, it's not Type II, but Type I diabetes if your pancreas "dies".

Taking GH leads to increased endogenous insulin levels. High doses can cause severely high blood glucose that your body can't handle on its own, and it would be in your best interest to use insulin in that case, since high blood sugar is extremely damaging to various tissues, such as your eyes, kidneys etc. But taking extra insulin does nothing for your actual insulin sensitivity. More insulin = less sensitivity in the long run. A bodybuilder on say 20iu of GH, 100iu of insulin, a bunch of stimulants and eating enormous amounts of food for years on end is probably not very insulin sensitive.  

You could of course look at it another way, and say one could become Type II while on GH without insulin, just based on the elevated BG (presumably temporary condition and probably not what you were talking about).

[flinstones1]

If by Type II diabetes you mean what is usually meant, i.e. insulin resistant cells then no, I don't see how extra insulin prevents this. Milos has talked about how high carb diets can kill your pancreas and that exogenous insulin can prevent it. Even if true, it's not Type II, but Type I diabetes if your pancreas "dies".

Taking GH leads to increased endogenous insulin levels. High doses can cause severely high blood glucose that your body can't handle on its own, and it would be in your best interest to use insulin in that case, since high blood sugar is extremely damaging to various tissues, such as your eyes, kidneys etc. But taking extra insulin does nothing for your actual insulin sensitivity. More insulin = less sensitivity in the long run. A bodybuilder on say 20iu of GH, 100iu of insulin, a bunch of stimulants and eating enormous amounts of food for years on end is probably not very insulin sensitive.  

You could of course look at it another way, and say one could become Type II while on GH without insulin, just based on the elevated BG (presumably temporary condition and probably not what you were talking about).

By taking insulin with GH, you are actually lessening the strain on the panceras (when you become insulin resistant from the GH, you pancreatic beta cells have to work harder to crank out enough insulin) By taking exogenous insulin , in small enough amounts, you are actually lowering the chances of diabetes By not taking insulin (and continually staying on GH) your actually leaving yourself open to stressing the pancreas into a diabetic-like state (usually people in this category come down with panceatitis-- a prelude to diabetes)

The above quote was from palumbo. Sounds to me like jut an excuse to use slin The reason I am concerned is because my friend who is in his mid twenties recently came down with type 2 diabetes. He never really got out of shape in the offseason and he ate pretty clean from what I saw. He started gh at 20 he said.  I know insulin has its downfalls as well like premature aging but it sounds to me like using gh without slin is worse in the long run


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Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/palumbo/steroid-use-by-pro-bodybuilders.htm#ixzz19A6KoxoE

[Van_Bilderass]

The above quote was from palumbo. Sounds to me like jut an excuse to use slin The reason I am concerned is because my friend who is in his mid twenties recently came down with type 2 diabetes. He never really got out of shape in the offseason and he ate pretty clean from what I saw. He started gh at 20 he said.  I know insulin has its downfalls as well like premature aging but it sounds to me like using gh without slin is worse in the long run

Palumbo says no one should use more than 2iu of GH. I'd like for him to show evidence that 2iu will cause pancreatitis, or even any dose of GH.

Palumbo is full of shit like usual.

Regarding your friend, would be interesting to know the full picture. Might be a very temporary condition, especially if he was on drugs at the time of the diagnosis.