Tbombz or gh15- for the Contest prep of an IFBB PRO?

[kiwiol]

if there are a select few super responders to steroids why have none been found in any study of steroids ever 

isn't it more likely most guys have been sold fake gear rather than there are millions of guys who just dont have the genetics 

So if you took a 100 or 1000 guys and made them do Ronnie's or Kevin Levrone's workout after putting them on Ronnie's or KLo's stack and diet, they'll all have (near) equal levels of strength and size? And if they don't, it's because they are taking a "bad batch" of drugs?

[Coach is Back!]

This is the thing about peer reviewed studies...I read a ton of them and I mean A TON of them by different people and the one thing I've concluded is you have use your own conclusions based on what you've read, its going to be different all the time and studies of the same thing will be done over and over and each time it will more than likely be different. Panda, my guess is you haven't been involved in bodybuilding all that long and my guess is that you've never trained a sole. Most case studies will come out different. Bottom line, if you're as educated as you say, then you should know commonsense a lot of the time prevails. Use it!

[chaos]

So if you took a 100 or 1000 guys and made them do Ronnie's or Kevin Levrone's workout after putting them on Ronnie's or KLo's stack and diet, they'll all have (near) equal levels of strength and size? And if they don't, it's because they are taking a "bad batch" of drugs?

The thing fagpanda doesn't realize is that these studies he copy/pastes/swears by are highly controlled experiments and mostly done on untrained individuals and not done with the sole intention of finding out about muscle mass earned by certain doses of steroids but usually some other factor such as surgery recovery........then he, in his fat covered brain, takes this info and trys to apply it to bodybuilding or weightloss and instead comes off as a complete retard.

Check the protein thread on the nutrition board, I used his own studies against him because he used a bit and piece of the study to make a claim but the study was conducted with parameters outside of normal practices.

[clued-up]

there are a select few super responders to steroids

Yes, there are. From Arnold to Coleman.

Thank god we have them.. otherwise scamming piece of shit supplement companies could not sell worthless shit to morons for a profit.

I’ll tell you something else – big guys do not inject or think of steroids in terms of milliliters  – they inject and think of steroids/GH by the bottle. They will not draw a few CC from a bottle - they inject the entire contents of the bottle in one sitting.. because - *that’s how you grow* (talking l o n g esters here).

You take a guy with great genetics/drug response.. and pump him full of insane amounts of drugs, from the time he was a teen - and you get your upper echelon pro.

[Palpatine Q]

Yes, there are. From Arnold to Coleman.

Thank god we have them.. otherwise scamming piece of shit supplement companies could not sell worthless shit to morons for a profit.

I’ll tell you something else – big guys do not inject or think of steroids in terms of milliliters  – they inject and think of steroids/GH by the bottle. They will not draw a few CC from a bottle - they inject the entire contents of the bottle in one sitting.. because - *that’s how you grow* (talking l o n g esters here).

You take a guy with great genetics/drug response.. and pump him full of insane amounts of drugs, from the time he was a teen - and you get your upper echelon pro.

Agree 100% except the bolded.

I think an above-average guy is all that is needed, not GREAT genetics.....someone not fat with a bit of muscle tone, not a skinny twink...not a fat fuck.

I don't think you need to be one in a million at all, the one area you need to be exceptional is your willingness to put yourself through what it takes and have the ability to get all of those drugs on a regular basis

[clued-up]

Agree 100% except the bolded.

I think an above-average guy is all that is needed, not GREAT genetics.....someone not fat with a bit of muscle tone, not a skinny twink...not a fat fuck.

I mentioned *upper echelon pro*.

Fact is... many a *skinny twink* have grown into some of the very best bodybuilders of all time.

I agree about the fat guys though - they're generally fucked.

[Fatpanda]

yeah, thats why you can sell two different guys amps from a bag that has say 500 loose amps in it- one will put on 20 pounds and the other will struggle to gain 10. i guess by sheer luck the guy who gained the 20 pounds must have only gotten the good amps in that batch of 500, and the other guy got fake ones. and continues to only get fake gear every time he orders, while everyone else is just so happening to get the good stuff.

jesus h christ you're an idiot.

why do you post about things you know nothing about? seriously. is it that important for you to feel a part of something you feel the need to provide your imput about topics that you clearly have no knowledge of?

do you realise that this doesnt make you look intelligent, which is what you are hoping it does, but stupid and ignorant?

keep up the good work. after all without people like you on here, we'd have nobody to laugh at.

clearly of the 2 guys the one that trained smarter and ate better gained more. its not rocket science.

now why don't you go back to pretending your a 280lb ripped to the bone walking encyclopedia of bullshit, and leave the thinking mans posts to those that use rational logic and peer reviewed studies to guide them.

[Fatpanda]

So if you took a 100 or 1000 guys and made them do Ronnie's or Kevin Levrone's workout after putting them on Ronnie's or KLo's stack and diet, they'll all have (near) equal levels of strength and size? And if they don't, it's because they are taking a "bad batch" of drugs?

if you take 2 twins feed them the same, train them the same and give them the same gear results will be the same.

[Fatpanda]

The thing fagpanda doesn't realize is that these studies he copy/pastes/swears by are highly controlled experiments and mostly done on untrained individuals and not done with the sole intention of finding out about muscle mass earned by certain doses of steroids but usually some other factor such as surgery recovery........then he, in his fat covered brain, takes this info and trys to apply it to bodybuilding or weightloss and instead comes off as a complete retard.

Check the protein thread on the nutrition board, I used his own studies against him because he used a bit and piece of the study to make a claim but the study was conducted with parameters outside of normal practices.

actually there have been many studies with steroids done on experienced lifters - every one of the subjects showed similar gains.

never once heard of a super responder.

i read about some myostatin kid once, so i guess there is the odd freak................... .........

[Coach is Back!]

if you take 2 twins feed them the same, train them the same and give them the same gear results will be the same.

Identical or fraternal? Huge difference.

[chaos]

if you take 2 twins feed them the same, train them the same and give them the same gear results will be the same.

Same DNA, same genetic make up.......doesn't apply.

[Fatpanda]

james isn't is more logical to assume these super responders just eat and train smarter while taking more steroids - or perhaps a more synergistic stack.

obviously there is some genetic variance in muscle type among genetic types, whites, blacks, middle easterns, asians but in every species steroids, lifting heavy weights and eating more protein than normal folks gain muscle.

ronnie coleman was a twink on the bbing stage at one point then after a year with chad blew up into mr olympia. did his genetics suddenly get better or did he just get his diet and drugs right  

did monsters like tom prince and levrone genetics suddenly revert to skinny dude genetics when they stopped competing or is it more likely they simply stopped training, eating and drugging like they were.

the studies i mention do show a synergistic effect between training and steroids more than steroids alone. So that can/would explain this 'genetic freak' myth, studies to also point to steroids allowing more protein from diet to be absorbed, which also points to a possible explanation for this 'genetic freak' myth.

so whats more likely - narcissistic bodybuilders claiming superior genetics and minimal dosages or narcissistic bodybuilders simply being drugged to the gills more than others, training smarter than others and eating a lot more than others.

[kiwiol]

Same DNA, same genetic make up.......doesn't apply.

Exactly. It's like saying Ronnie's clone would look the same as Ronnie when doing his training, drug & diet regime. Duh.

I was trying to make the point that there will be some who respond a lot, some who will respond very little and the majority who will have an average (compared to the extremes) response viz. the bell shaped distribution. FP's reply to my post is meaningless.

[chaos]

james isn't is more logical to assume these super responders just eat and train smarter

a calorie is a calorie.

[tbombz]

the majority who will have an average

that's all you need to know

[Fatpanda]

a calorie is a calorie.

and ?

some who should be taking more calories may struggle to eat enough and hence limit their growth, while another might eat everything in sight.

[no one]

clearly of the 2 guys the one that trained smarter and ate better gained more. its not rocket science.

now why don't you go back to pretending your a 280lb ripped to the bone walking encyclopedia of bullshit, and leave the thinking mans posts to those that use rational logic and peer reviewed studies to guide them.

no.

the example i am thinking of actually happened and was the exact opposite of what you wrote, you invalid-  one guy who ate 6 meals a day, got in his 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight trained like mad and gained 10 pounds. his buddy ate maybe twice/ three times a day whatever he felt like eating and gained almost twice the weight off the ame run. and that guy continues to look at a weight and blow up, where as his buddy busts his ass for every pound.

so shut your stupid fat ignorant fucking mouth you obese dumpy loose skinned pickle titted bitch.

lol

[WillGrant]

P.S. Mike Mentzer ate cheese pastries and ice cream as part of his 79 Olympia pre-contest diet

dude was also a speed freak

[gh15]

this is my diet on americana land,

30 eggwhites drink with pineapple juice with some soft bar sometime  2bananas extra and extra 2 soft bars

up the mass shaker for the calorie,,good calorie,,i hate giving companys good word but i use it myself behind the scene so i can say it,,

5 guys burgers  with fries!

sushi bar

steak in some american place usually chain ,,

left over sushi

upmass before bed  yes you heard that right

dont know about you but on 15 + unit gh a day 7-8% on regular basis,,LARGE lol

you think other are different? youre severly wrong,,to you they say a in reality they do b,,only time i diet clean is when prep ,,ONLY TIME even then i fuckin cheat ,,

G H G H G H G H G H G H ,,no need for much diet unless going doen to 4%

gh15 approved

[dj181]

Serious question for all the "clean contest prep diet" fellas... If this "clean diet" is so essential for contest prep, then how do you explain the FACT that I was able to hit a true sub-6 and stay there for 3 months straight eating cheeseburgers, pizza, french fries, coke, pepsi, etc? And yes, I was an am completely natural

[wes]

Serious question for all the "clean contest prep diet" fellas... If this "clean diet" is so essential for contest prep, then how do you explain the FACT that I was able to hit a true sub-6 and stay there for 3 months straight eating cheeseburgers, pizza, french fries, coke, pepsi, etc? And yes, I was an am completely natural

How old are you..........you may just have a fast metabolism if you`re young.

Also,you may have been still not eating enough total food,ie. 3 meals a day as opposed to 6 meals,and lots of calorie burning during the course of a day.

Only you know exactly what you were doing at the time.

More importantly,how did your physique look,and what was your bodyweight and height?

[e.coli]

GH15 what about All max nutrition ? do you use it ?

[_bruce_]

well, one of them looks like this after YEARS ON steroids.




Im not one to complain about others, but man, thats worthless..

Dongz?

[dj181]

I was 26 at the time, and 5'11" at 154 at a TRUE sub-6 and no chemicals what so ever. Now I'm 36, and I WILL hit sub-6 again by april, maybe even march without a clean diet. As far as my bodyweight at sub-6, I don't know what it will be, but I'd like to hit about a buck 60. Once again, being completely natural. The ONLY drug I will use is caffeine.

[buselmo]

Serious question for all the "clean contest prep diet" fellas... If this "clean diet" is so essential for contest prep, then how do you explain the FACT that I was able to hit a true sub-6 and stay there for 3 months straight eating cheeseburgers, pizza, french fries, coke, pepsi, etc? And yes, I was an am completely natural

if the "diet guru" tells you to eat 6 meals a day, 70 grams of protein per meal, tries to time your carbs and fats and shit and all that shit and tell you it's the diet that matters!!! don't cheat on your diet ever!! that's the secret!!... well, then, he's full of shit...
i've spend thousands... yes... thousands of dollars on gurus (some of them pretty well known here) and i can tell you that they are all scam artists...

if the guru doesn't sound like this:
"ok... i want you to take 50 mcg of t3, increase it every 2 weeks by 25 mcg... start your clen at 80 mcg and add 20 mcg every 3 days til you hit 200 mcg... start at a tab of ephedrine per day and increase 1 tab every week til you hit 3 tabs in the morning, and 3 in the afternoon... take tren and masteron at 1 ml eod, after 4 weeks make them ed. 1000 mg eq per week... 1 ml prop eod... 4-8 iu gh per day before you sleep"
and then you ask..
"hey... what about the diet?"
and he says "oh... yeah... eat protein... lay off the carbs... and starve"

then THAT is a guru....

the rest are liars who try to hide the drug use by discussing diet 99% of the time and then tell you "oh, and if you feel it is neccessary... i'd want you to add some T3, clen, tren, masteron, DNP, GH, and ephedrine... not neccessary at all... but it'll help... it speeds up results just a bit" knowing that you'd say "YES! OFCOURSE!"


after the results i've been getting week after week on depending more on drugs and training, and less on diet... i'd say the game is
70% drugs
28% training
2% diet


whoever tells you otherwise is a liar scam artist, or stupid