Regarding training naturally

[SilverSpoon]

DJ, you may have not been fully matured by 18.
This is quite possible.
For instance, my real starting weight for serious weight/strength training is suspect because I was a starved tennis player.  I was 6'1" and 156-159 pounds at approximately 12%.  I got up to 193 at 12% with constant eating, no cardio and a perfect environment for training:  college.  I ate, slept, ate some more, hooked up with my girfriend, drank Myoplex like it was going out of style, slept some more, etc.
However, I didn't party with my friends, didn't stay out too late, didn't miss a meal, etc.

[Lord of the Roidz]

GH15 is so much more right than wrong.
Look up Dr. Greg Ellis, the nutrition guru.  I met this man and conversed with him on a few occasions.  He stated unequivocally that a natural trainee would be lucky to gain a total of 15 lbs. of pure muscle over the lifetime of training!!!
How discouraged I was when I had to come to grips with the fact that I was adding a lot of water, fat, and a little bit of muscle with all of my training.

That is one of the stupidest things I ever heard. I went from a smooth 150 pounds to a very lean 185 from when I was 22 till 25 with no steroids. How absurd. Look at the gains made by guys like Bill Pearl.. before he ever tried juice . I feel really sorry for people who believe such nonsense. This Ellis guy is a guru? LMAO!

[shiftedShapes]

When I was 18, I weighed all of a buck 30 at 5'11" and my peak lean weight was 154. At 154 I was a legit sub-6, so that meant that I was carrying roughly 145 lean pounds, and at 130 I'm certain I was sub-6 also, since I ran track and cross-country. So at 130 sub-6 I had roughly 122 lean pounds, so that difference right there is a pure 23 lean pound gain.

at 18 you were not fully developed.  a lot of that muscle gain would have occurred naturally over the next 10 years without any weights.

[SilverSpoon]

That is one of the stupidest things I ever heard. I went from a smooth 150 pounds to a very lean 185 from when I was 22 till 25 with no steroids. How absurd. Look at the gains made by guys like Bill Pearl.. before he ever tried juice . I feel really sorry for people who believe such nonsense. This Ellis guy is a guru? LMAO!

LoR, obviously, I had gained a total of 40+ pounds at that point, and was told I was above average.
He did say "the average trainee".
I could care less, as I still train hard, am over 200 pounds, look decent, but need to lose some fat, as I am sitting at about 15-16%.

[dj181]

Allright, fair enough. So at 23 I was 143 and sub-7, so that would put me at roughly 133 lean pounds, so that would be equal to a 12 lean pound gain, instead of a 23 lean pound gain. Would 23 years old be considered mature enough?

[SilverSpoon]

I think so.
I was 21 when I started what I considered training for size, rather than for strength/function for pure sport (tennis).

[shiftedShapes]

Allright, fair enough. So at 23 I was 143 and sub-7, so that would put me at roughly 133 lean pounds, so that would be equal to a 12 lean pound gain, instead of a 23 lean pound gain. Would 23 years old be considered mature enough?

actually I read that muscle mass peaks at around 40 for men.

[Tito24]

[cephissus]

As far as I know, these guys are natural, and they look good.  They don't look like bodybuilders, but they've got the sort of physique that I'm shooting for after I finally realized how delusional I've been for the past 7+ years.

[jude2]

does this apply to supps like celltech as well?  is a dose of celltech less potent now then the days of yesteryear?

Nobody hardly took shit like that back then. Now a days the mag are just filled with crazy ads.

[jordyb80]

Nobody hardly took shit like that back then. Now a days the mag are just filled with crazy ads.

I agree, and when you look at companies like Muscletech all they do is fill there mag with ads with a bunch of BS scientific jargon

[dj181]

Hard and consistant training>>>>>>>>ANY and ALL "supps" FVCK DAT NOISE!