If all the pros went drug free for a year, who would be the best?

[Wiggs]

BTW MB brought this up.

Would Jay still top fella? 
Kai?
Phil?

[MORTALCOIL]

Considering their respective ages and the fact that Jay is most likely doing incredible amounts of GH and Kai doing incredible amounts of everything, Phil should "resist" the best and shrink less then the other two. But I'd bet that if they were off for a year, they'd look closer to the three stooges than to their actual selves.

[devilsmile]

something like that...

[Wiggs]

Considering their respective ages and the fact that Jay is most likely doing incredible amounts of GH and Kai doing incredible amounts of everything, Phil should "resist" the best and shrink less then the other two. But I'd bet that if they were off for a year, they'd look closer to the three stooges than to their actual selves.

Phil has less of a base than any of the three but the best shape.
Jay has the best genetics for size naturally.
Kai has the best base naturally.

[Mr Nobody]

Genetics rule it would be the same top guys as it is today.

[MORTALCOIL]

Phil has less of a base than any of the three.
Jay has the best genetics for nice naturally.
Kai has the best base naturally.

They all rely heavily and mostly on drugs, so it would be who loses less size on a year time span. Age is a factor and how much drugs you're doing is the other. All those guys are way past their "genetics and base".

[Meso_z]

I dont know, but they wont be any different than they are now, maybe lose 30-40 pounds, still be on the 200+range little soft=bigger than most gym rats on juice i would say

[jordyb80]

The drugs really just accentuate what they are already working. It can be hard to strip away all the steroidal muscle and see what lies beneath but from what I can tell I would guess Jay

[Anglo]

Skip la cure and Mike o hern

[Leatherneck]

I'd imagine that the guys who had the best "natural" base would do best. It's kind of unrealistic to think Kai was natty when he won Team Universe but you'd imagine he was on low doses, so I think he'd do well. Most guys would have to adapt their training and diet to a style more conducive to muscle retention. There'd be a lot of Skip LaCour and Jeff Willet look-alike's on stage.

[Wiggs]

Perhaps a longer time period is needed or the question needs to be reworded.
If these none of the 2010 Olympia lineup had ever taken drugs, AAS, GH, slin, diuretics, and any peptides, who would likely be the top fella.  I don't believe that shit for a second that the same guys would be on top.

Some guys respond to drugs better than others, and some guys are naturally built better but might not respond to drugs as well...
 

[MB]

Genetics rule it would be the same top guys as it is today.

I tend to agree with this.  No one can say that Jay or anyone else is more dependent upon drugs than the other competitors.   

[tendonitis]

Kai would win easily. He had an excellent physique when he was "natural" or close to it.
Phil is absolutely all drugs. He would deflate FAST.
Jay would look like a trainwreck. He's been on huge amounts of PEDS since he was a teenager. He goes completely clean and he's going to get even fatter, smoother and softer than the marshmallow he already is.
Branch, well it's hard to imagine Branch looking any worse than he already does so going clean might actually improve his physique.  

[Wiggs]

I tend to agree with this.  No one can say that Jay or anyone else is more dependent upon drugs than the other competitors.   

Jay started juicing at 18-19 years old...fuck yes he's dependent.
Phil a great responder but a average gym black guy base.
Kai, great base but wide waist naturally.

[Wiggs]

Kai would win easily. He had an excellent physique when he was "natural" or close to it.
Phil is absolutely all drugs. He would deflate FAST.
Jay would look like a trainwreck. He's been on huge amounts of PEDS since he was a teenager. He goes completely clean and he's going to get even fatter, smoother and softer than the marshmallow he already is.
Branch, well it's hard to imagine Branch looking any worse than he already does so going clean might actually improve his physique.  

This.  Fellas with the best base or waited longest to juice would more than likely do better.  Example, if Coleman was in it, he'd easily win.

[#1 Klaus fan]

Kai would win easily. He had an excellent physique when he was "natural" or close to it.

Oh yeah you mean when he used about 3 grams of testosterona a week.

[MORTALCOIL]

I'll say it again: AGE is a factor. We're talking hormones here. So yes, originally, Kai had the better potential but he's in his thirties and so is Jay. At least, Phil still has some natural GH runing through his body. What I don't know and can only speculate about is how your body responds if you've been on the sauce for 5 or 10 or 15 years? I'd guess that would have an effect (a guy like Jay to me would turn into a totally different person once off).

[Wiggs]

I'll say it again: AGE is a factor. We're talking hormones here. So yes, originally, Kai had the better potential but he's in his thirties and so is Jay. At least, Phil still has some natural GH runing through his body. What I don't know and can only speculate about is how your body responds if you've been on the sauce for 5 or 10 or 15 years? I'd guess that would have an effect (a guy like Jay to me would turn into a totally different person once off).

Phil is 31, Kai is 35, Jay is 37.

[MB]

Jay started juicing at 18-19 years old...fuck yes he's dependent.
Phil a great responder but a average gym black guy base.
Kai, great base but wide waist naturally.

They're all dependent, but it's hard to say who has gone past the point of no return.  What about a guy like Johnnie Jackson who has a good base and trains heavy?  He would probably do well if he could get his conditioning down competing clean. 

[MORTALCOIL]

Damn! I thought Phil was way younger than this. Like 26 or 27.

[Wiggs]

Damn! I thought Phil was way younger than this. Like 26 or 27.

Nope, Phil turned 31 December 18th..

[Wiggs]

They're all dependent, but it's hard to say who has gone past the point of no return.  What about a guy like Johnnie Jackson who has a good base and trains heavy?  He would probably do well if he could get his conditioning down competing clean. 

Yep, Johnny would do really well.

[gh15]

phil would look like he never touched weight after 12 months off everything,,most likley 160 lb which is less than what he started with ,,absolitely no base what so ever ,,blow up doll with lots and lots of drugs into the fake muscle,,he would be last

jason would be 220 15% he would be the biggest and most likley will pull it well,,eventhough it would be like dorian look today to a lesser degree since jason is no dorian when it comes to solid muscle

greene  would be weird looking fella very similar to palumbo,,he will be maller than palumbo after 12 month with no hormones in system

so jason would still look better than both but look st the number im giving you here

2 2 0 / 15% after 12 months off hormone completely,,not even a lb over it and bf wont be even remotely close to singles

2 years and over being completly clean will take jason to where he truly belong 190 15%

gh15 approved

[MORTALCOIL]

They're all dependent, but it's hard to say who has gone past the point of no return.  What about a guy like Johnnie Jackson who has a good base and trains heavy?  He would probably do well if he could get his conditioning down competing clean. 

Well, remember that one occurence in 1990: the so-called tested 'O. I you really take off the juice from the mix, the guys with smaller frames but better natural proportions and symmetry will have the advantage: like Labrada who didn't look that different actually or guys like Benfatto. I'd guess a guy like Rockel who has a pretty solid work ethic could do good.

[MORTALCOIL]

phil would look like he never touched weight after 12 months off everything,,most likley 160 lb which is less than what he started with ,,absolitely no base what so ever ,,blow up doll with lots and lots of drugs into the fake muscle,,he would be last

jason would be 220 15% he would be the biggest and most likley will pull it well,,eventhough it would be like dorian look today to a lesser degree since jason is no dorian when it comes to solid muscle

greene  would be weird looking fella very similar to palumbo,,he will be maller than palumbo after 12 month with no hormones in system

so jason would still look better than both but look st the number im giving you here

2 2 0 / 15% after 12 months off hormone completely,,not even a lb over it and bf wont be even remotely close to singles

2 years and over being completly clean will take jason to where he truly belong 190 15%

gh15 approved

Thought you said Jay was the worse 'O ever and that he was all GH.