Author Topic: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion  (Read 2443 times)

Danny

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Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« on: January 06, 2011, 10:07:38 AM »
Washington (CNN) -- Legislation being pushed by House Republicans to repeal President Barack Obama's health care overhaul will add $230 billion to the federal debt by 2021, according to an analysis released Thursday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

Democrats immediately pounced on the report, arguing, among other things, that it undermines the new GOP House majority's emphasis on fiscal responsibility.

"Not only would repeal of health care reform add to our deficit, it would dump more than 30 million Americans from coverage who will be protected by our new health care reform act," said Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Illinois.

"So more than 50 million Americans won't have the protection of health insurance. That is a personal family tragedy even beyond our discussion of the deficit."
GOP targets health care law
Good idea to repeal health care reform?
RELATED TOPICS

    * Health Care Reform
    * Dick Durbin
    * Barack Obama

Republicans have argued that the health care overhaul -- widely considered Obama's signature domestic accomplishment -- will hamper the country's long-term economic growth.

They also argue that by pushing for a repeal, they are simply fulfilling a campaign promise.

"I suggest that we pull Obamacare out by the roots -- root and branch, lock, stock and barrel, eradicate it completely, and leave not one visage of its DNA left behind," said Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa.

"It is a malignant tumor into the spirit of America's vitality and constitutionality, and if it is allowed to have one particle left, it will regrow again and it will metastasize like a tumor and grow back and it will consume the liberty and the vigor of the American people."
Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/01/06/health.care/index.html?hpt=T2


The people "want this bill repealed and we are going to repeal it," said House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio. If it is not repealed, "it will ruin the best health care system in the world ... (and) will ruin our economy."

Boehner, addressing reporters on Capitol Hill, took issue with the CBO analysis, arguing that it was based on unrealistic economic and fiscal assumptions originally provided by Democrats.

"I don't think anyone in this town believes that repealing Obamacare is going to increase the deficit," he said.

Republicans have exempted a repeal of the health care law from new rules prohibiting legislation from adding to the federal debt.

While the GOP-controlled House is considered likely to pass a repeal of the health care overhaul, most political analysts believe it has little chance of clearing the Senate or surviving a presidential veto.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2011, 10:15:23 AM »
Ha ha ha.  The cbo also said it would bend the cost curve down. 

Straw Man

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2011, 10:17:27 AM »
Ha ha ha.  The cbo also said it would bend the cost curve down. 

it will and that's why repealing it (which won't happen and is just time/money wasting grandstanding) will INCREASE the deficit

you're still working off the false 2010 talking points

Soul Crusher

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 10:21:51 AM »
Keep dreaming straw.  Obamacare is a maddoffian scam and most sensible people have figured this out. 

MB

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 10:30:04 AM »
Quote
So more than 50 million Americans won't have the protection of health insurance.

Preying on fears and emotions.  What is wrong with being uninsured?  There is more than enough money spent on insurance premiums that could go to employess to cover any necessary medical bills.

Straw Man

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 10:45:47 AM »
Keep dreaming straw.  Obamacare is a maddoffian scam and most sensible people have figured this out. 

Come on now

Since when are sensible?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 10:47:18 AM »
Sensibe enough to have crrectly predicted the results of bamacare, many of his energy policies, and the stim bill.   

Danny

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 12:43:37 PM »
Keep dreaming straw.  Obamacare is a maddoffian scam and most sensible people have figured this out. 

I know there is no way you can be reasonable, but here it is I'll try to ask you nicely.
1.What's so evil about insurance companies being forbidden to deny coverage to a sick child which happens to have a pre existing condition?
2.What's so evil about pressing an insurance company to cover you and doing their part instead of saying "we're sorry that's all we cover you're on your own" when you reach your limit,since you paid your whole life your premiums as a good citizen.? please explain how you defend that?
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Kazan

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2011, 12:46:25 PM »
I know there is no way you can be reasonable, but here it is I'll try to ask you nicely.
1.What's so evil about insurance companies being forbidden to deny coverage to a sick child which happens to have a pre existing condition?
2.What's so evil about pressing an insurance company to cover you and doing their part instead of saying "we're sorry that's all we cover you're on your own" when you reach your limit,since you paid your whole life your premiums as a good citizen.? please explain how you defend that?

I will answer your question as soon as you show me where the Federal Government has the constitutional authority to do this. Strange how people managed to survive until 1973 with no government regulation of health care.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2011, 12:51:23 PM »
I know there is no way you can be reasonable, but here it is I'll try to ask you nicely.
1.What's so evil about insurance companies being forbidden to deny coverage to a sick child which happens to have a pre existing condition?
2.What's so evil about pressing an insurance company to cover you and doing their part instead of saying "we're sorry that's all we cover you're on your own" when you reach your limit,since you paid your whole life your premiums as a good citizen.? please explain how you defend that?


 ::)  ::)

Because genius, te prices for coverage to cver everything are putting insurance out of the capability and affordability of almosteveryone who works in small buiness or for themselves. 


Bamacare is going to end up wih tens of millions less people insured because it will be far cheaper to just pay the fine than t carry this insanly expensive insurance.   

MB

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2011, 12:52:57 PM »
I know there is no way you can be reasonable, but here it is I'll try to ask you nicely.
1.What's so evil about insurance companies being forbidden to deny coverage to a sick child which happens to have a pre existing condition?
2.What's so evil about pressing an insurance company to cover you and doing their part instead of saying "we're sorry that's all we cover you're on your own" when you reach your limit,since you paid your whole life your premiums as a good citizen.? please explain how you defend that?
You cannot win with the insurance companies.  They will always find a way to deny coverage.  That's what they do.  And if the government is able to force insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions and not set lifetime limits, how will insurance companies deal with that?  That's right, they'll just keep raising the rates for everyone.  Insurance never loses. 

225for70

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2011, 02:49:48 PM »
You cannot win with the insurance companies.  They will always find a way to deny coverage.  That's what they do.  And if the government is able to force insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions and not set lifetime limits, how will insurance companies deal with that?  That's right, they'll just keep raising the rates for everyone.  Insurance never loses. 


Good post....

MM2K

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2011, 10:25:52 PM »
I know there is no way you can be reasonable, but here it is I'll try to ask you nicely.
1.What's so evil about insurance companies being forbidden to deny coverage to a sick child which happens to have a pre existing condition?
2.What's so evil about pressing an insurance company to cover you and doing their part instead of saying "we're sorry that's all we cover you're on your own" when you reach your limit,since you paid your whole life your premiums as a good citizen.? please explain how you defend that?

1. It forces me to pay an unnecessarilly higher price for my premiums because people dont want to make the investment to get insurance BEFORE they get sick.

2.Because it forces me to pay an unnecesarilly higher price for my premiums.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2011, 05:31:41 AM »


HERITAGE: Take CBO report with a grain of salt: Obamacare repeal would not increase deficits
Daily Caller ^ | 1/7/2011 | Kathryn Nix


________________________ ________________________ _______________



Next week, the House of Representatives will vote on H.R. 2, a measure to repeal Obamacare in its entirety. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) today released a report stating that repealing the health care law would increase the deficit by $145 billion between 2012 and 2019.

This report is based on the findings of the CBO’s March 2010 report that predicted that Obamacare would reduce the deficit. CBO does respectable work, but their analysts have their hands tied by assumptions they are required to make. The reality is that, in spite of the March report, Obamacare will not reduce the deficit, so repealing it would not add to the deficit, in spite of today’s report.


The CBO report should be taken with a grain of salt for a few reasons. First, CBO is required to assume that current law will be enacted as written, even in cases where reality couldn’t be further from what is on the books. CBO Director Doug Elmendorf himself makes this clear in the report:

“Current law now includes a number of policies that might be difficult to sustain over a long period of time. … If those provisions would have subsequently been modified or implemented incompletely, then the budgetary effects of repealing [the law] and the relevant provisions of the Reconciliation Act could be quite different—but CBO cannot forecast future changes in law or assume such changes in its estimates.”

Second, CBO must ignore the many budget gimmicks written into legislation. The health law does not include the “doc fix” to prevent an automatic cut to physicians’ reimbursement rates under Medicare. Congress recently passed a one-year fix and will continue to prevent the cuts in the future, but this will still not solve the ongoing problem. Nevertheless, pretending it will not happen won’t reduce the deficit.

Obamacare also includes billions in double-counted savings. Over the next decade, Obamacare includes $529 billion in cuts to Medicare and $70 billion in revenue from the new CLASS program. CBO assumes that these savings and revenues will offset the cost of new programs in the legislation. But Medicare savings are also pledged to extend the program’s solvency. Revenue from CLASS, a new long-term care insurance program, is the result of premiums collected to pay out benefits in outlying years and will not pay for new programs, either. Claiming that these dollars will pay for Obamacare is akin to trying to make a mortgage payment and buy a Macbook with the same paycheck: In the real world, you can spend money only once.

Then, Obamacare creates a new subsidy program for the middle class to purchase insurance. CBO predicts that 19 million Americans will benefit from this generous new entitlement program. But this doesn’t take into account Obamacare’s huge incentives for employers to drop their insurance programs and allow employees to instead purchase taxpayer-subsidized coverage. Former CBO director Doug Holtz-Eakin points out that both businesses and their employees stand to seriously benefit by dropping employer coverage and instead relying on taxpayer-subsidized health care. These incentives, combined with the various new insurance rules that will increase premiums on employer plans, will cause the cost of the subsidy program to greatly exceed expectations.

Since, in reality, Obamacare will not reduce the deficit, repealing the law does not need to be offset under pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) rules. Repeal is in fact in keeping with the spirit of PAYGO, which exists for the purpose of long-term deficit reduction. Moreover, PAYGO only requires deficit neutrality over a 10-year budget window, so a program could create savings in one decade but run trillions in deficits the next and still meet PAYGO requirements. The loopholes of 10-year scoring were not lost on the 111th Congress—the costliest provisions of Obamacare do not go into effect until 2014, so the CBO score actually includes only six years of spending.

If Congress is really serious about reducing long-term deficits, the best path forward is to accept the CBO report for what it is and also set aside PAYGO in favor of real budget process reform. In the meantime, repealing Obamacare is the right step toward reducing the federal deficit and getting health care reform right.


blacken700

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2011, 06:26:38 AM »
Join Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and more than 704000 conservatives in fighting liberals and advancing conservative principles as a Heritage Foundation

try to post from unbiased sources, it would be more believeable

muscleforlife

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2011, 06:31:52 AM »
Preying on fears and emotions.  What is wrong with being uninsured?  There is more than enough money spent on insurance premiums that could go to employess to cover any necessary medical bills.

As unisured people get ill, they go to the emergency rooms of hospitals.  Even if they can't pay, they will be taken care of.

Tax payers are paying for unisured already.

Sandra

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2011, 06:36:51 AM »
As unisured people get ill, they go to the emergency rooms of hospitals.  Even if they can't pay, they will be taken care of.

Tax payers are paying for unisured already.

Sandra

Problem is that the cost of insuance is being skyrocketed beyond the means o most pople and not reflective of the actual risk.

Insurance for health care i really a disgusting scheme IMHO.    There should only be insurance fr catastrophic or hospitalization and very high deuctible, low premium plans available for people who want they kind f thing.           

MM2K

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2011, 06:39:02 AM »
Join Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and more than 704000 conservatives in fighting liberals and advancing conservative principles as a Heritage Foundation

try to post from unbiased sources, it would be more believeable

What unbiased sources? Like CNN? NBC? Yeah right.
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dario73

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2011, 06:40:26 AM »
Join Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and more than 704000 conservatives in fighting liberals and advancing conservative principles as a Heritage Foundation

try to post from unbiased sources, it would be more believeable

HAHAHAHA!! Pot meet kettle.

How about someone who actually knows what he is talking about? Someone who has engaged Obama on economic issues and made Obama look like a blithering idiot?

That guy is Paul Ryan. This is what he said about the CBO's "analysis".

Whatever you put in CBO - in front of them - they have to score what you put in front of them. They put this health care, we put the health care bill in front of them; the health care bill is full of gimmicks and spending tricks. Ten years of tax increases to pay for six years of spending, for starters. They double-count revenue for Social Security. They double-count revenue for this new CLASS Act program. They double-count Medicare cuts. They ignore the 'doc fix'. They did not include the $115 billion in spending that would be required just to set the bureaucracy up to run this new program.

"If you take out all the double-counting - if you add the counting they didn't count - it adds a $701 billion deficit. So, what CBO cannot do is tell you "we're not going to count the budget gimmicks that are in this legislation." They just have to estimate the bill as it's written, with all the gimmicks included. So, people around here know how to write legislation to manipulate the kind of cost estimate you're gonna get from the Congressional Budget Office. I sent a letter to the CBO, I asked them "Well, now look at these budget gimmicks, ignore these budget gimmicks. What then?" And it's what I just told you, this thing is a huge budget-buster. So, what they have is a piece of paper that they've manipulated to say this thing reduces the deficit.

I will eat my tie if that is the outcome of this law. But, they're trying to say by voting to repeal health care, we're going to raise the deficit - and we're just not gonna buy that economics. We're not gonna accept all these budget gimmicks, and that's why we're going to move ahead and repeal this thing anyway."

http://www.therightscoop.com/paul-ryan-ill-eat-my-tie-if-obamacare-reduces-the-deficit#


The Showstoppa

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2011, 06:42:36 AM »
As unisured people get ill, they go to the emergency rooms of hospitals.  Even if they can't pay, they will be taken care of.

Tax payers are paying for unisured already.

Sandra

But the point is, how should they be taken care of?  People who say yes, how about we change the system and those who say yes can pay for them, and those of us who don't think they should have to pay for the services?  Maybe not in cash, but how about work programs, etc...?  WAY too many rely on the emergency room for their regular care because in the past hospitals would just get paid thru medicaid.  As that begins to dry up, watch hospitals begin to severely limit the care those individuals receive.....so nobody "wins."

blacken700

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2011, 09:37:51 AM »
What unbiased sources? Like CNN? NBC? Yeah right.


Heritage Foundation :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D i'll take cnn over the Heritage Foundation any day of the week

Soul Crusher

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2011, 09:41:06 AM »
Why is their analysis wrog?   

dario73

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2011, 10:34:53 AM »
Why is their analysis wrog?   
Crickets.

He might ignore this question the same way he ignored that other thread.

dario73

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2011, 10:35:48 AM »

Heritage Foundation :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D i'll take cnn over the Heritage Foundation any day of the week

HAHAHAHA!! Pot meet kettle.

How about someone who actually knows what he is talking about? Someone who has engaged Obama on economic issues and made Obama look like a blithering idiot?

That guy is Paul Ryan. This is what he said about the CBO's "analysis".

Whatever you put in CBO - in front of them - they have to score what you put in front of them. They put this health care, we put the health care bill in front of them; the health care bill is full of gimmicks and spending tricks. Ten years of tax increases to pay for six years of spending, for starters. They double-count revenue for Social Security. They double-count revenue for this new CLASS Act program. They double-count Medicare cuts. They ignore the 'doc fix'. They did not include the $115 billion in spending that would be required just to set the bureaucracy up to run this new program.

"If you take out all the double-counting - if you add the counting they didn't count - it adds a $701 billion deficit. So, what CBO cannot do is tell you "we're not going to count the budget gimmicks that are in this legislation." They just have to estimate the bill as it's written, with all the gimmicks included. So, people around here know how to write legislation to manipulate the kind of cost estimate you're gonna get from the Congressional Budget Office. I sent a letter to the CBO, I asked them "Well, now look at these budget gimmicks, ignore these budget gimmicks. What then?" And it's what I just told you, this thing is a huge budget-buster. So, what they have is a piece of paper that they've manipulated to say this thing reduces the deficit.

I will eat my tie if that is the outcome of this law. But, they're trying to say by voting to repeal health care, we're going to raise the deficit - and we're just not gonna buy that economics. We're not gonna accept all these budget gimmicks, and that's why we're going to move ahead and repeal this thing anyway."

http://www.therightscoop.com/paul-ryan-ill-eat-my-tie-if-obamacare-reduces-the-deficit#



MB

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Re: Analysis: Health care repeal will cost $230 billion
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2011, 11:39:25 AM »
As unisured people get ill, they go to the emergency rooms of hospitals.  Even if they can't pay, they will be taken care of.
Tax payers are paying for unisured already.
Sandra

As 333386 said, the cost of healthcare is not reflective of the risk.  Here is an idea I posted earlier that I would favor over health insurance: 
Quote
It's time to strip it down and take out unnecessary costs like insurance.  I would advocate employers setting up health savings accounts in lieu of contributing to health insurance.  If you change jobs, your HSA balance would be carried over and used for qualifying medical expenses.  There could also be an option to borrow from your HSA if you have an unexpected health emergency early in life when you are just starting out.  If the average employer contribution to current health insurance is $5k/year and that is put into an HSA, that is $225k over a 45 year work life.  In addition, I would make HSA balances transferrable in the event of death.  In other words, you can pass your HSA balance on to your kids without penalty.

There are many ways to set this up without insurance.  Why have a 3rd party skimming off the money transferred between you and your doctor?