congresswoman/judge shot in Arizona

[Straw Man]

LOL that first if, then is the first premise...would be denoted by A->B
as in in if A then B

you've got A and B in the first sentene

then C (another premise?) in the 2nd sentence

and then D in the third

None of it (structure or content) makes any sense to me


btw - this statemnt by you is just as incoherent as almost anything the shooter wrote:

you say it's the premise and conclusion that are valid which directly contradicts the Wiki article on which you are basing your argument

I've asked you to explain the premise and conclusion of a specific statement and you can't or wont' do it

whats the problem

first of all the format is not what is valid or not valid...

its the premises and the conclusion that are deemed to be valid or not valid...

you still dont seem to get it....in philosophy/logic which is obviously the format he is using when typing this shit...an argument doesnt have to be true to be valid...I already posted about this...I dont mind you not reading my links but please read my posts...SOUNDESS refers to being "true"

he does make valid arguments even though they are not sound

what im saying is while yes it sounds crazy and disorganized there is actually some organization to his rantings.

IM NOT SAYING HE IS SANE, only that it is a possibility....

[Straw Man]

actually the premises are fine in that argument its the conclusion thats wrong

thats the thing with logical arguments you can make the premises whatever you want...

what is the premise

re-state it in your own words

[Hugo Chavez]

actually the premises are fine in that argument its the conclusion thats wrong

thats the thing with logical arguments you can make the premises whatever you want...

yea, ok...

My TV shows real people.  My TV can't have real people in it.  Therefore my TV isn't real...  Where did I screw up lol?

[tonymctones]

you've got A and B in the first sentene

then C (another premise?) in the 2nd sentence

and then D in the third

None of it (structure or content) makes any sense to me


btw - this statemnt by you is just as incoherent as almost anything the shooter wrote:

you say it's the premise and conclusion that are valid which directly contradicts the Wiki article on which you are basing your argument

I've asked you to explain the premise and conclusion of a specific statement and you can't or wont' do it

whats the problem

structure is how the argument is set up...

validity is whether the conclusion follows the premises

techincally i guess you can have an argument be invalid b/c of the structure but it ultimately also be invalid due to the conclusion not following the premises...if you take the premises and jumble them around you can actually make a valid argument invalid so take from it what you want...both are actually correct i guess the wiki link is more correct but mine is as well

again how am i to explain what he is thinking?

[tonymctones]

yea, ok...

My TV shows real people.  My TV can't have real people in it.  Therefore my TV isn't real...  Where did I screw up lol?

LOL hahahah

[Hugo Chavez]

LOL hahahah

well that's how most of his shit is written lol..

[tonymctones]

well that's how most of his shit is written lol..

I agree but some of his shit actually fits into a valid logical argument

[Hugo Chavez]

I agree but some of his shit actually fits into a valid logical argument

such as?  Remember, most of this stuff he thinks is logically proving his point, like that shuttles are unmanned.

There's one where he says something like humans need sleep, I am human therefore I need sleep.  I guess that one works but the need to logically express a truth everyone knows is also kinda crazy.

[Straw Man]

structure is how the argument is set up...

validity is whether the conclusion follows the premises
techincally i guess you can have an argument be invalid b/c of the structure but it ultimately also be invalid due to the conclusion not following the premises...if you take the premises and jumble them around you can actually make a valid argument invalid so take from it what you want...both are actually correct i guess the wiki link is more correct but mine is as well

again how am i to explain what he is thinking?

why don't you just tell me the truth of his premise

from your link:

A standard view is that whether an argument is valid is a matter of the argument’s logical form.

An argument is valid if and only if the truth of its premises entails the truth of its conclusion

n

[tonymctones]

such as?  Remember, most of this stuff he thinks is logically proving his point, like that shuttles are unmanned.

There's one where he says something like humans need sleep, I am human therefore I need sleep.  I guess that one works but the need to logically express a truth everyone knows is also kinda crazy.

we dont know what he is thinking hugo...

LOL you just found one yourself there, there are actually a couple in there that ive seen on youtube clips etc...

im not saying he is sane only that its a possibility, if this is 100% of him then yes he is probably crazy but again this is only what he has wanted us to see...

[tonymctones]

why don't you just tell me the truth of his premise

from your link:
n

lol as well as the conclusion following the premises

the thing is straw to be structured validly the conclusion has to follow the premises...

[Fury]

such as?  Remember, most of this stuff he thinks is logically proving his point, like that shuttles are unmanned.

There's one where he says something like humans need sleep, I am human therefore I need sleep.  I guess that one works but the need to logically express a truth everyone knows is also kinda crazy.

Either way, his writing style is by far the most infuriatingly annoying style I've come across. Reading his rants just aggravates me.

[tonymctones]

Either way, his writing style is by far the most infuriatingly annoying style I've come across. Reading his rants just aggravates me.

gotta agree on that reminds me of failcon, i just want to punch that bastard in the face lol

[Hugo Chavez]

we dont know what he is thinking hugo...

LOL you just found one yourself there, there are actually a couple in there that ive seen on youtube clips etc...

im not saying he is sane only that its a possibility, if this is 100% of him then yes he is probably crazy but again this is only what he has wanted us to see...

yes we do know.  He thinks Shuttles are unmanned and the rover on mars was faked.  On these two ideas, how can you say we don't know what he is thinking?  What we don't know is how is brain is unable to grasp the invalid nature of his logic which he sees as proving these points.

[Hugo Chavez]

gotta agree on that reminds me of failcon, i just want to punch that bastard in the face lol

lol, I'd love to see a bullet go through Jared's head and then see if it fixes his mailfunction.

[Straw Man]

lol as well as the conclusion following the premises

the thing is straw to be structured validly the conclusion has to follow the premises...

so you're back to form and stucture

cool

In the statement I've given you

what is the truth of the premise and and how does it entail (look that word up on Wiki) the truth of the conclusion

shit  

let's just start with you telling us the premise

from your Wiki link:

An argument is valid if and only if the truth of its premises entails the truth of its conclusion

[tonymctones]

so you're back to form and stucture

cool

In the statement I've given you

what is the truth of the premise and and how does it entail (look that word up on Wiki) the truth of the conclusion

shit  

let's just start with you telling us the premise

from your Wiki link:

i dont know what you mean by truth but the meaning of the wiki link statment is just what ive been saying, the conclusion has to follow the premises to be true...

if you assume the premises are true, does that make the conclusion true? if so then its valid, if not then its not valid...

[tonymctones]

lol, I'd love to see a bullet go through Jared's head and then see if it fixes his mailfunction.

agreed, i dont think giving this guy so much publicity is a good thing...

take him out in the woods put a couple bullets in his head and be done with it, no big media circus trial like there will be etc...

just have a press conference announce that he was shot in the head and is dead and walk away.

let this fucker be forgotten and his name scrubbed from history of the world

[Straw Man]

i dont know what you mean by truth but the meaning of the wiki link statment is just what ive been saying, the conclusion has to follow the premises to be true...

if you assume the premises are true, does that make the conclusion true? if so then its valid, if not then its not valid...

the proof of it's premise has lead to the proof of it's conclusion

again - from your link here's a valid argument with false premise and conclusion

The following argument is of the same logical form but with false premises and a false conclusion, and it is equally valid:

All cups are green.
Socrates is a cup.
Therefore, Socrates is green

.

Here is one of Loughner's statements that you've given as an example of a valid arguement

something is missing

what do you think?

If NASA communication signals reaches mars then NASA communication signal from the mars rover.
The NASA communication signals reaches mars
Therefore, NASA communication signals from the mars rover

.

[Fury]

gotta agree on that reminds me of failcon, i just want to punch that bastard in the face lol

Haha, the Failcon's just a harmless meth addict. Annoying, but harmless.

[Hugo Chavez]

agreed, i dont think giving this guy so much publicity is a good thing...

take him out in the woods put a couple bullets in his head and be done with it, no big media circus trial like there will be etc...

just have a press conference announce that he was shot in the head and is dead and walk away.

let this fucker be forgotten and his name scrubbed from history of the world

the opposite will happen.  This will be something politicans exploit to the max in order to advance things they wouldn't have been able to before Jared went postal.

They also seem to be saving or holding back in the media on the mass of posts at ATS uncovered last night.  Which makes me think they intend on milking this for all it's worth.  The first couple days spent on attacking anti-government talk as dangerous and blaming commentators and the tea party.  Calling for gun control... Next they'll jump into the conspiracy board talk over at ATS and spend time on that, possibly advancing some of the internet regulations and control they've been talking about.  yea, they're going to milk it.

their demands will be something like this:
Gun Control.
Don't question the government.
just trust the government.
Don't engage in any sort of conspiracy talk, it's dangerious.
Don't talk about revolutions even if you're nonviolent.
Don't question the fed and our currency system.
Don't talk about the need for currency backed by gold.
and Don't be hating lol...

[Straw Man]

the opposite will happen.  This will be something politicans exploit to the max in order to advance things they wouldn't have been able to before Jared went postal.

They also seem to be saving or holding back in the media on the mass of posts at ATS uncovered last night.  Which makes me think they intend on milking this for all it's worth.  The first couple days spent on attacking anti-government talk as dangerous and blaming commentators and the tea party.  Calling for gun control... Next they'll jump into the conspiracy board talk over at ATS and spend time on that, possibly advancing some of the internet regulations and control they've been talking about as a result of this.  yea, they're going to milk it.

their demands will be something like this:
Gun Control.
Don't question the government.
just trust the government.
Don't engage in any sort of conspiracy talk, it's dangerious.
Don't talk about revolutions even if your nonviolent.
Don't question the fed and our currency system.
Don't talk about the need for currency backed by gold.
and Don't be hating lol...

birth of a conspiracy theory

[Hugo Chavez]

birth of a conspiracy theory

well it's a short one.  we'll know pretty quick if they milk it for those things.  The first part is already true and posted.  It's not really a CT as I stated it.  It's not hard to see what the media and politicians do after a tragedy.  We have plenty of examples of that.  I see no reason to believe this will be any different and today, politicians and the media are right on schedule lol...  Now if I accused the government or a group of organizing this tragedy to exploit it, I think that would be the birth of a CT.  I'm not willing to say that for sure.

[tonymctones]

the proof of it's premise has lead to the proof of it's conclusion
again - from your link here's a valid argument with false premise and conclusion
.

Here is one of Loughner's statements that you've given as an example of a valid arguement

something is missing

what do you think?
.

no it doesnt necissarily, read the one about the the living space, -452 etc...if you assume both of the premises are true it doesnt mean the conclusion is true...

i know its kinda hard to understand which is why when they explain this to you the seem to use outlandish examples to help ppl rap their heads around the concept...then you have to worry about arguments being sound etc...

[Hugo Chavez]

Tony, here's his post with the original thread title:  Please read it.

All aboard with the empty NASA Space Shuttles! ,

Was one of your favorite toys a plastic NASA Space Shuttle?


If the design of the NASA Space Shuttle keeps the black body temperature of −454 °F from the outside orbit then the NASA Space Shuttle is at a temperature for human life.
The NASA Space Shuttle isn’t at a temperature for human life.
Hence, the design of the NASA Space Shuttle doesn’t keep the black body temperature of −454 °F from the outside orbit.

If the air supply supports the NASA Space Shuttle mission for the time in orbit then the crew is able to breathe with the correct amount of oxygen for the time in orbit.
The crew is not able to breathe with the correct amount of oxygen for the time in orbit.
Consequently, the air supply doesn’t support the NASA Space Shuttle mission for the time in orbit

If the crew of the NASA mission uses a green screen then they are able to fake the mission.
The crew of the NASA mission uses a green screen.
Therefore, they are able to fake the mission.

If the 0 gravity affects the human body then the crew is at risk for body failure.
The 0 gravity affects the human body.
Therefore, the crew is at risk for body failure.

If the NASA Space Shuttle is with a crew in orbit then they're able to perform the mission with the conditions in orbit.
They're not able to perform the mission with the conditions in orbit.
Thus, the NASA Space Shuttle isn’t with a crew in orbit.

If the NASA Space Shuttle is able to reenter from the orbit of the Earth then the NASA Space Shuttle is able to reenter because of the heat of 1,500 °C.
The NASA Space Shuttle isn’t able to reenter because of the heat of 1,500 °C.
Hence, the NASA Space Shuttle isn’t able to reenter the orbit of the Earth.

If the NASA Space Shuttle is able to reenter from the orbit of Earth then the NASA Space Shuttle is in orbit.
The NASA Space Shuttle isn’t in orbit.
Therefore, the NASA Space Shuttle isn’t able to reenter from the orbit of Earth.

If the force of entry into orbit is strong enough to cause death to a human body then there’s death to a human body in entry from earth to orbit.
The force of entry into orbit is strong enough to cause death to a human body.
Hence, there’s death to a human body in entry from earth to orbit.

If the force of reentry into orbit is strong enough to cause death to a human body then there’s death to a human body in reentry from earth to orbit.
The force of reentry into orbit is strong enough to cause death to a human body.
Hence, there’s death to a human body in reentry from earth to orbit.


Are you scared of what happens after ET separation