Ferrari you've met your match... The 2012 Pagani Huayra

[NarcissisticDeity]

Which is precisely why I would never buy one. Ferrari's are the Porsche's of super cars.

It's about the vehicle, not what the manufacturer has done in the past. If the current Ferrari is a lesser vehicle than this new Zonda, it's not it's match, at all. None of the things you listed have anything to do with how things will pan out when it's comparison time. Racing heritage and brand equity mean shit if the Zonda is faster and performs better.

The Zonda is either better, or its not, and you don't know if it's not, yet.

point taken , Ferrari is still making the best performance cars in the world , so they are no slouch in this department , the Bugatti Veyron will technically out perform any Ferrari but on a Track is where Ferrari shines but like I said it's pretty remarkable what Pagani has accomplished in such a short time for an upstart company and competition is something Ferrari always does well in.

[225for70]

I don't think they will let a fine piece of N. Italian machinery like that go slumming in Sicily.

Do you know Italia? I thought you were a china-man

[Parker]

Which is precisely why I would never buy one. Ferrari's are the Porsche's of super cars.

It's about the vehicle, not what the manufacturer has done in the past. If the current Ferrari is a lesser vehicle than this new Zonda, it's not it's match, at all. None of the things you listed have anything to do with how things will pan out when it's comparison time. Racing heritage and brand equity mean shit if the Zonda is faster and performs better.

The Zonda is either better, or its not, and you don't know if it's not, yet.

One of the main reasons why Ferrari models sell for a higher price than corresponding Lambo models at auctions, is DUE to the racing pedigree of Ferrari. Which is also why the Mclaren F1, still goes for over $1 million (that and the fact that there are about 100 of them). The main sell point of Ferrari is that you get a piece of the racing heritage when you buy one. That is why they highlight the various technologies that have trickled down from F1 to the street cars---marketing 101 for them. Show the connection between the race cars and the street cars. Same thing that Porsche does and BMW does. unfortunately, some thing that Lambo can't really do, nor Konigsegg. Bugatti ccan, plus the heritage that they have from the Royales, the 57 Atlantic, etc.

The Ferrari that would match up with the Pagani Huayra or should I say, what the Huayra matches up with, would be the next Enzo, due in about 1 yr or two. Supposedly, It will weigh 2,200 pounds and have 900 hp....and have a 0-60 of well under 3 secs.

[Jadeveon Clowney]

and have a 0-60 of well under 3 secs.

According to whom?

[bigdumbbell]

According to whom?

WELL UNDER 3 SECONDS !   IS THAT LIKE 1 SECOND ?

[Parker]

According to whom?

Apparently according to Ferrari, with their Millichelli concept (if I spelled it right), which mean "2,200" pounds. Speculation on hp, but supposedly been confirmed of a Twin Turbo V8, for light weight, just like the F40.

Besides, any car weighing 2,200 pounds with 700 hp and over, and a Dual Clutch tranny, in today's world, would get under 3 secs. The Porsche 911 Turbo and the 911 GT2 RS and the Nissan GT-R do under 3 secs without 650 hp.

[Jadeveon Clowney]

The Porsche 911 Turbo and the 911 GT2 RS do under 3 secs without 650 hp.

No they don't.

[Parker]

No they don't.

WELL UNDER 3 SECONDS !   IS THAT LIKE 1 SECOND ?

Well under is in the mid 2 sec range. In today's world, 2/10ths-4/10ths of sec is alot. Nowadays, a mid 3 sec time is slow, and not really supercar territory, 3.2 is mundane. The new barrier is under 3 secs. In 5-10 yrs, it will be under 2 secs.

No they don't.

Yes, they do. The 997.2 911 Turbo with PDK has been tested in the 2.7-2.8 range. The 911 GT2 RS in the 2.8 range.

Nobody goes by the published numbers, as the Germans are very conservative. For instance, BMW lists the Manual Transmission M3's 0-60 time of 4.8, but it has been tested as 4.1, and our own Ryan who owns one, can vouch that it is around that time.

BMW lists the 0-60 time for the 135i as around 5.2 secs, when in fact that is 4.7. So going by the tested time, the car is  faster than  a M3's listed time? 

[Jadeveon Clowney]

Well under is in the mid 2 sec range. In today's world, 2/10ths-4/10ths of sec is alot. Nowadays, a mid 3 sec time is slow, and not really supercar territory, 3.2 is mundane. The new barrier is under 3 secs. In 5-10 yrs, it will be under 2 secs.Yes, they do. The 997.2 911 Turbo with PDK has been tested in the 2.7-2.8 range. The 911 GT2 RS in the 2.8 range.

Nobody goes by the published numbers, as the Germans are very conservative. For instance, BMW lists the Manual Transmission M3's 0-60 time of 4.8, but it has been tested as 4.1, and our own Ryan who owns one, can vouch that it is around that time.

BMW lists the 0-60 time for the 135i as around 5.2 secs, when in fact that is 4.7. So going by the tested time, the car is  faster than  a M3's listed time? 

The M3 might get mid to low 4s.  The 135i should hit 5 easy and Porsche is not conservative.   

[Parker]

The M3 might get mid to low 4s.  The 135i should hit 5 easy and Porsche is not conservative.   

The Germans are all conservative, plus the list their hp in PS, which about 5-5 off of the SAE HP rating. Which is why the M3 in German has the listing of 420 PS, but in the US and the rest of the world it is 414

Also, the BMW lists the 135i as 300 hp, but on the dyno it puts down 306, meaning it is well abov what BMW advertises

Porsche is conservative as well---with it's times. Diff mags have consisting tested the 997.2 911 Turbo with the PDK and have gotten times in the 2.7-2.8 range. It's the PDK, which is a Dual Clutch tranny that is responsible for the quick times.

And Mercedes is convervative as well. But, not as much as BMW, Porsche, and Audi.
 
 And Ferrari fudges as well. For instance the 599 GTB has been tested by Motortrend and others as a 3.2 time, but Ferrari says the new 599 GTO does 3.35. Basically, they have a long standing order that nothing is faster than the Enzo, until the new Enzo is out. Even though, the GTO and Scuderia are faster around the Fiorano test track than the Enzo...
 

[Parker]

Basically, what is printed and what is real, depending on the manufacturer, carries diff factors. Some want to fake out the competition, and shock and awe the consumer, bragging rights, etc.
The Germans have a history of being conservative, and not braggarts. Japanese as well. The Italians, and especially the Americans, want to shout it out...hence the use of Gross Horsepower usage in the Musclecar era...

[Jadeveon Clowney]

I drive a German car which is known for being fast and it performs pretty much exactly according to specs.  But when I go on youtube or in the magazines I am always reading insane figures for my car.  Either these people have fucked with the chip or they are "hand timing" which is always faster.

[body88]

One of the main reasons why Ferrari models sell for a higher price than corresponding Lambo models at auctions, is DUE to the racing pedigree of Ferrari. Which is also why the Mclaren F1, still goes for over $1 million (that and the fact that there are about 100 of them). The main sell point of Ferrari is that you get a piece of the racing heritage when you buy one. That is why they highlight the various technologies that have trickled down from F1 to the street cars---marketing 101 for them. Show the connection between the race cars and the street cars. Same thing that Porsche does and BMW does. unfortunately, some thing that Lambo can't really do, nor Konigsegg. Bugatti ccan, plus the heritage that they have from the Royales, the 57 Atlantic, etc.

The Ferrari that would match up with the Pagani Huayra or should I say, what the Huayra matches up with, would be the next Enzo, due in about 1 yr or two. Supposedly, It will weigh 2,200 pounds and have 900 hp....and have a 0-60 of well under 3 secs.

I understand. I get the brand equity piece. I get the collectability piece. I know the laws of supply and demand. My point is this: none of that should be taken into consideration when the new Enzo battles this car. The vehicle that performs better, will be considered the superior car..and for all we know, Ferrari might have met their match. We won't know until they are compared.

[body88]

point taken , Ferrari is still making the best performance cars in the world , so they are no slouch in this department , the Bugatti Veyron will technically out perform any Ferrari but on a Track is where Ferrari shines but like I said it's pretty remarkable what Pagani has accomplished in such a short time for an upstart company and competition is something Ferrari always does well in.

I think there is a tendency to give Ferrari more credit than they deserve. I constantly see Clarkson and others doing it. A competitor is automatically in an uphill battle because "it's a Ferrari". So what?
If respected test drivers compare this new Zonda to the upcoming Enzo, and the enzo performs better, I will happly concede that Ferrari has not yet met it's match. That Zonda is a masterpiece, no doubt.

[benchmstr]

Which is precisely why I would never buy one. Ferrari's are the Porsche's of super cars.

It's about the vehicle, not what the manufacturer has done in the past. If the current Ferrari is a lesser vehicle than this new Zonda, it's not it's match, at all. None of the things you listed have anything to do with how things will pan out when it's comparison time. Racing heritage and brand equity mean shit if the Zonda is faster and performs better.

The Zonda is either better, or its not, and you don't know if it's not, yet.

dont put ferrari in the same sentence as porsch.....if you show up to a open road, or scca event in a porsch you WILL be laughed at....porsch doesnt have enough class to be compared to the big boys..

bench

[Palpatine Q]

WELL UNDER 3 SECONDS !   IS THAT LIKE 1 SECOND ?

LOLOLOL........

I thinks its cute how excited Parker gets over the zoomy cars...

[benchmstr]

LOLOLOL........

I thinks its cute how excited Parker gets over the zoomy cars...

who cares about stock cars anyway...victory is in the aftermarket...nothing cooler than voiding you're warranty the day you buy the car!!

bench

[Captain Equipoise]

Fuck ferrari this thing pisses all over ferrari

[benchmstr]

Fuck ferrari this thing pisses all over ferrari

it looks like all the other concept cars companies shell out every year..interested to see if this one actually stays around unlike all the others like it..

bench

[Palpatine Q]

who cares about stock cars anyway...victory is in the aftermarket...nothing cooler than voiding you're warranty the day you buy the car!!

bench

Difference is you own, build and drive insanely fast cars.

Parker is the authority on cars he's never even sat in

[benchmstr]

Difference is you own, build and drive insanely fast cars.

Parker is the authority on cars he's never even sat in

true....i almost finished building my newest project today

bench

[Parker]

I drive a German car which is known for being fast and it performs pretty much exactly according to specs.  But when I go on youtube or in the magazines I am always reading insane figures for my car.  Either these people have fucked with the chip or they are "hand timing" which is always faster.

Various ways to get the insane times. The company can suppy a ringer, which Ford likes to do.
Cars maybe tested with half or a quarter tank of gas. Cars can be tested in optimum environments---low humidity, low temp, and on a race track. Cars can be tested with all the electronic aides (traction control, launch control, M button, M dynamic mode, etc) on, giving better times. The E60 M5 had umteen diff configurations for it's SMG III tranny. Diff tires, tire pressures. All of these can be manipulated to get better times. And the drive as well.
There was a vid I posted of the M3 vs. IS-F, featuring Paul Tracy and Tanner Foust, Tracy couldn't launch the M3 correctly, but since Tanner had one, he wasn't telling him how to launch it.




Groink, I sat in and test driven, M3s, RS4s,Z06s, GT-Rs, Porsche 911 Turbos, X5/X6 Ms, M5s, Shelby Mustangs...
Those are fairly easy to get access, all the exotica, unfortunately I have to defer to people that I know

Also, you have these idiots who claim that their stock 135i can give a M3 a run for it's money...with loads of stories...could it be that the poser in the M3 doesn't know how to drive said car?

Same deal with Porsche's Carrera GT, there are many people who have driven it that complain about the slippery clutch, that it's "on and off", then there are those who are "drivers" who have no problem with it.



Bench, the problem is, Porsche is the go to car in the GT2 and GT3 class in Am Le Mans series and the Le Mans 24 hours.
They have won the 24 hours of Nurburing, where many of the cars competing in SCCA would fail.
And the fact they they have won Le Mans numerous times along Ferrari.

I think, Chris Harris of Evo Magazine campaigned one at the 24 hours of Nurburing...

Americans, might laugh, just as Euros might laugh at us for using a Corvette.


***The Viper has won overall at the 24 Hours of Nurburing, but Corvette has not.

[body88]

dont put ferrari in the same sentence as porsch.....if you show up to a open road, or scca event in a porsch you WILL be laughed at....porsch doesnt have enough class to be compared to the big boys..

bench

What I said was not meant to be taken literally. I don't think you understood the point I was making.
Ferrari is the Porsche of supercars. it's become the deafult. They're like the reigning Mr. Olympia. The judges automatically assume they are the winner. what I said has nothing to do with either cars performance in an actual race. It's not a direct comparison at all, really.

It was said that Ferrari has met it's match. Untrue. Equally untrue, is saying that the Ferrari that will compared to the Zonda will be a better car. We won't know till they arecompared.

[benchmstr]

Various ways to get the insane times. The company can suppy a ringer, which Ford likes to do.
Cars maybe tested with half or a quarter tank of gas. Cars can be tested in optimum environments---low humidity, low temp, and on a race track. Cars can be tested with all the electronic aides (traction control, launch control, M button, M dynamic mode, etc) on, giving better times. The E60 M5 had umteen diff configurations for it's SMG III tranny. Diff tires, tire pressures. All of these can be manipulated to get better times. And the drive as well.
There was a vid I posted of the M3 vs. IS-F, featuring Paul Tracy and Tanner Foust, Tracy couldn't launch the M3 correctly, but since Tanner had one, he wasn't telling him how to launch it.




Groink, I sat in and test driven, M3s, RS4s,Z06s, GT-Rs, Porsche 911 Turbos, X5/X6 Ms, M5s, Shelby Mustangs...
Those are fairly easy to get access, all the exotica, unfortunately I have to defer to people that I know

Also, you have these idiots who claim that their stock 135i can give a M3 a run for it's money...with loads of stories...could it be that the poser in the M3 doesn't know how to drive said car?

Same deal with Porsche's Carrera GT, there are many people who have driven it that complain about the slippery clutch, that it's "on and off", then there are those who are "drivers" who have no problem with it.



Bench, the problem is, Porsche is the go to car in the GT2 and GT3 class in Am Le Mans series and the Le Mans 24 hours.
They have won the 24 hours of Nurburing, where many of the cars competing in SCCA would fail.
And the fact they they have won Le Mans numerous times along Ferrari.

I think, Chris Harris of Evo Magazine campaigned one at the 24 hours of Nurburing...

Americans, might laugh, just as Euros might laugh at us for using a Corvette.


***The Viper has won overall at the 24 Hours of Nurburing, but Corvette has not.

dont compare a full crew race car to a off the lot factory car....doesnt make sense..

bench

[Palpatine Q]

Various ways to get the insane times. The company can suppy a ringer, which Ford likes to do.
Cars maybe tested with half or a quarter tank of gas. Cars can be tested in optimum environments---low humidity, low temp, and on a race track. Cars can be tested with all the electronic aides (traction control, launch control, M button, M dynamic mode, etc) on, giving better times. The E60 M5 had umteen diff configurations for it's SMG III tranny. Diff tires, tire pressures. All of these can be manipulated to get better times. And the drive as well.
There was a vid I posted of the M3 vs. IS-F, featuring Paul Tracy and Tanner Foust, Tracy couldn't launch the M3 correctly, but since Tanner had one, he wasn't telling him how to launch it.




Groink, I sat in and test driven, M3s, RS4s,Z06s, GT-Rs, Porsche 911 Turbos, X5/X6 Ms, M5s, Shelby Mustangs...
Those are fairly easy to get access, all the exotica, unfortunately I have to defer to people that I know

Also, you have these idiots who claim that their stock 135i can give a M3 a run for it's money...with loads of stories...could it be that the poser in the M3 doesn't know how to drive said car?

Same deal with Porsche's Carrera GT, there are many people who have driven it that complain about the slippery clutch, that it's "on and off", then there are those who are "drivers" who have no problem with it.



Bench, the problem is, Porsche is the go to car in the GT2 and GT3 class in Am Le Mans series and the Le Mans 24 hours.
They have won the 24 hours of Nurburing, where many of the cars competing in SCCA would fail.
And the fact they they have won Le Mans numerous times along Ferrari.

I think, Chris Harris of Evo Magazine campaigned one at the 24 hours of Nurburing...

Americans, might laugh, just as Euros might laugh at us for using a Corvette.


***The Viper has won overall at the 24 Hours of Nurburing, but Corvette has not.

Its all good my pro-black friend......nothing  wrong with being an enthusiast. ....just messing with you