Pres. Signs H-Care Insurance Mandate-212 Years Ago!

[Soul Crusher]

Nominal fine my ass. They will jack it up sky high in time.

[Straw Man]

Nominal fine my ass. They will jack it up sky high in time.

guess it depends on what you think is expensive. 

The fine is certainly less expensive than a years worth of the cheapest health insurance and there are exceptions for low income people so it's really only going to effect people who simply want to be reckless but still want to option of accessing the government insurance exchange once they are sick.   My preference (as I've said many times) is to give everyone a one time option to either retain future access to the government exchanges or a one time option to forgo future access.   If you choose to forgo future access then you pay no fine but you never get access to the exchange system.  You still have the same access to employer group plans (which you can continue to choose not to participate) or purchase individual policy outside ouf an employer sponsored plan.    What you don't get is the option to get back into the government plan once you are sick or injured.   If we didn't have the mandate then millions of people would just forgo health insurance until they got sick or injured and would then want access to the government plan and that would destroy the "mechanism" of insurance.    You can't have it both ways.   You have to choose one or the other and then live with your choice

[tonymctones]

the mandate = requirement that everyone have some sort of insurance

you do understand that right ?

I'm not going any further if you don't understand that

yes or no answer is fine

yes...

the reason =  to take the onus of paying for medical expenses off of the govt for those that do not have health insurance and do not pay out of their own pocket...

you do understand that right?

Im not going any further if you dont understand that

yes or no answer is fine

I answered your question now be so kind as to answer mine...

[tonymctones]

guess it depends on what you think is expensive. 

The fine is certainly less expensive than a years worth of the cheapest health insurance and there are exceptions for low income people so it's really only going to effect people who simply want to be reckless but still want to option of accessing the government insurance exchange once they are sick.   My preference (as I've said many times) is to give everyone a one time option to either retain future access to the government exchanges or a one time option to forgo future access.   If you choose to forgo future access then you pay no fine but you never get access to the exchange system.  You still have the same access to employer group plans (which you can continue to choose not to participate) or purchase individual policy outside ouf an employer sponsored plan.    What you don't get is the option to get back into the government plan once you are sick or injured.   If we didn't have the mandate then millions of people would just forgo health insurance until they got sick or injured and would then want access to the government plan and that would destroy the "mechanism" of insurance.    You can't have it both ways.   You have to choose one or the other and then live with your choice

why not just force ppl who CHOOOSE NOT to have insurance to pay their own medical expenses instead of passing it onto the tax payer?

that would eliminate the need for govt pooling and a mandate!!!!!

[Straw Man]

why not just force ppl who CHOOOSE NOT to have insurance to pay their own medical expenses instead of passing it onto the tax payer?

that would eliminate the need for govt pooling and a mandate!!!!!

you keep saying this and I can't figure out if you actually understand your own confused statement

if you don't have insurance then you must pay your own medical expenses

you have no other choice

do you?

[tonymctones]

you keep saying this and I can't figure out if you actually understand your own confused statement

if you don't have insurance then you must pay your own medical expenses

you have no other choice

do you?

part of the rationalization of the left in health care reform is that it will take alot of monetary burden off of the govt b/c ppl that dont have health care and get sick dont pay and those charges get passed on to the govt/tax payer...

do you understand that?

lets not go any further until you understand that part...

yes or no answer is fine

[Straw Man]

part of the rationalization of the left in health care reform is that it will take alot of monetary burden off of the govt b/c ppl that dont have health care and get sick dont pay and those charges get passed on to the govt/tax payer...
do you understand that?

lets not go any further until you understand that part...

yes or no answer is fine

I don't understand you sentence because it makes no sense

how can it simultanously take the monetary burden off the government and that sick people don't pay and those charges are passed on to the goverment

Your'e the only person I've heard make such a confused statement so I can't attribute it to anyone but you

you've made the same contradictory statement over and over and I've been trying to get you to explain it but I don't even think you understand why it makes no sense

[tonymctones]

I don't understand you sentence because it makes no sense

how can it simultanously take the monetary burden off the government and that sick people don't pay and those charges are passed on to the goverment

Your'e the only person I've heard make such a confused statement so I can't attribute it to anyone but you

you've made the same contradictory statement over and over and I've been trying to get you to explain it but I don't even think you understand why it makes no sense

LOL goodness gracious

dude thats the reason behind health care reform...

its b/c of the cost of health care on the govt....

right now the bills of ppl that dont pay get passed on to the govt...thats why the govt wants to mandate everyone have insurance...so that they wont have to pay for those bills...

if you simply pass legislation that requires ppl to pay for their health care if they CHOOSE to not carry insurance...there is no need for a mandate...

[Straw Man]

LOL goodness gracious

dude thats the reason behind health care reform...
its b/c of the cost of health care on the govt....

how can that be the reason when it doesn't even make any sense

right now the bills of ppl that dont pay get passed on to the govt...thats why the govt wants to mandate everyone have insurance...so that they wont have to pay for those bills...

completely untrue

people without insurance dont' pass the bill to the governement

what they do instead is that they get no health care at all and they stay chronically sick or injured and eventually die earlier than they would have if they had health insurance

some people evenntually go to the emergency room so maybe that's what you're talking about but you don't get treatment for ongoing chronic conditions at the emergency room and you certainly don't get preventative care, exams, etc...   A

if you simply pass legislation that requires ppl to pay for their health care if they CHOOSE to not carry insurance...there is no need for a mandate...

the mandate is a tiny part of the legiislation and it's necessary or the mechanism of insurance will cease to function because millions of people will choose to not pay for health insurance and once they become sick or injured, and unable to get private insurance then they will come with hat in hand to the public program.   It would be the same as not having auto insurance and then getting in a wreck and demanding access to a governemnt plan.   

Isn't the requireement of the mandate the lack of "choice" you've been bitching and moaning about? 

[Soul Crusher]

  

Yeah, and what if the govt mandates that you eat broccoli, join a health club as part of its plan to fight obesity and bring down health costs?  Is that ok with you?

[Straw Man]

 

Yeah, and what if the govt mandates that you eat broccoli, join a health club as part of its plan to fight obesity and bring down health costs?  Is that ok with you?

let me know when that happens and I'll let you know what I think about it

I do think the government should mandate a complete neurological work up for you

[Soul Crusher]

let me know when that happens and I'll let you know what I think about it

I do think the government should mandate a complete neurological work up for you

  

So insult me while you cant refute my point.   Got it.   

[Straw Man]

 

So insult me while you cant refute my point.   Got it.   

you dont' have a point

you just made up some ridiculous scenario

how am I supposed to even take that seriously

btw - I belong to a gym, eat brocolli all the time and have paid for my own health insurance since the month I graduated from college

[Soul Crusher]

you dont' have a point

you just made up some ridiculous scenario

how am I supposed to even take that seriously

btw - I belong to a gym, eat brocolli all the time and have paid for my own health insurance since the month I graduated from college

Why is it ridiculous?  Its the same argument you are advancing just different method.   

[Straw Man]

Why is it ridiculous?  Its the same argument you are advancing just different method.   

it's ridiculous because there would be no reason to mandate that someone eat brocolli or join a gym

the only reason for a mandate in the healthcare legislation is to prevent people from not having insurance and then trying to access government program once they are sick or injured. 

there is no comparinon between the two scenarios which is why it is ridiculous

[Soul Crusher]

it's ridiculous because there would be no reason to mandate that someone eat brocolli or join a gym

the only reason for a mandate in the healthcare legislation is to prevent people from not having insurance and then trying to access government program once they are sick or injured. 

there is no comparinon between the two scenarios which is why it is ridiculous

There is no govt program jackass.   The mndate is to buy PRIVATE MEDICAL INSURANCE FROM A PRIVATE COMPANY! 

[tonymctones]

how can that be the reason when it doesn't even make any sense

completely untrue

people without insurance dont' pass the bill to the governement

what they do instead is that they get no health care at all and they stay chronically sick or injured and eventually die earlier than they would have if they had health insurance

some people evenntually go to the emergency room so maybe that's what you're talking about but you don't get treatment for ongoing chronic conditions at the emergency room and you certainly don't get preventative care, exams, etc...   A

youve got to be shitting me...

how is this bill supposed to save the govt money then???

[tonymctones]

it's ridiculous because there would be no reason to mandate that someone eat brocolli or join a gym

the only reason for a mandate in the healthcare legislation is to prevent people from not having insurance and then trying to access government program once they are sick or injured. 

there is no comparinon between the two scenarios which is why it is ridiculous

goodness gracious dude youre truly delusional

[Straw Man]

There is no govt program jackass.   The mndate is to buy PRIVATE MEDICAL INSURANCE FROM A PRIVATE COMPANY! 

I was referring to the health insurance exchanges

Health Insurance Exchanges:

The uninsured and self-employed would be able to purchase insurance through state-based exchanges with subsidies available to individuals and families with income between the 133 percent and 400 percent of poverty level.
Separate exchanges would be created for small businesses to purchase coverage -- effective 2014.
Funding available to states to establish exchanges within one year of enactment and until January 1, 2015

[Straw Man]

goodness gracious dude youre truly delusional

do you have health insurance yet?

[tonymctones]

do you have health insurance yet?

yes i do not that it matters...lmfao...

while working part time and going to school at night I had to have an emergency root canal and paid out of pocket for it which all in all was about 1500 bucks and did so b/c i chose to go without insurance...

you know that whole personal responsibility thing?

[Straw Man]

yes i do not that it matters...lmfao...

while working part time and going to school at night I had to have an emergency root canal and paid out of pocket for it which all in all was about 1500 bucks and did so b/c i chose to go without insurance...
you know that whole personal responsibility thing?

good for you.  

I'm glad to hear you're a responsible adult

if you were a bum you could have just passed that bill on to the government .....right?

You've said that many times on this thread

here's one example

thats the way the system works now dumb ass...if ppl cant pay it gets passed on to the tax payer...THATS THE REASON FOR THE MANDATE YOU IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how exactly would your 1500 bill be passed on to the tax payer had you chosen not to pay it?

[tonymctones]

good for you. 

I'm glad to hear you're a responsible adult

if you were a bum you could have just passed that bill on to the government .....right?

You've said that many times on this thread

here's one example

how exactly would your 1500 bill be passed on to the tax payer had you chosen not to pay it?

well if seeing as the hospitals cant turn ppl away...what happens when those ppl dont pay???

are you going to explain how the govt is going to save money with the health care reform???

no, youre not...WHO FUCKING KNEW LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Skip8282]

well if seeing as the hospitals cant turn ppl away...what happens when those ppl dont pay???

are you going to explain how the govt is going to save money with the health care reform???

no, youre not...WHO FUCKING KNEW LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think Lurker would be able to tell more about the programs, but I think EMTALA is an unfunded mandate - maybe used as a tax write-off, IDK.

But, if you're a "total bum", there is PHSA 330.  Probably won't cover a root canal, but will cover basic medical services and preventitive dental. 

Still, there's a lot of people who fall through the cracks - don't qualify for government and can't get it through employers, etc.  It would be nice to see a plan (not the monstrosity of Obamacare), that would help these people.  Just from a humanitarian aspect, the idea of the wealthiest country in the world not taking care of its own is kinda disturbing, IMO.

[Soul Crusher]

No shit skip!  That's what we have been saying all along.  Obamacare mandates expensive and unaffordable insurance to young and middle class people who can't aFford the premiums or cost of this shit sandwich. 
 
They couyld have created a catsprohic plan, low premium, that covers stuff like that that would be highly affordable and accesible to most everyone. 

Instead, they created a rube goldberg monstrosity that will drive premiums through the roof and make things drastically worse.