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Author Topic: Don't Let the BJJ/Wrestlers snow you  (Read 2633 times)
Benny B
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« on: February 02, 2011, 02:43:33 PM »

According to most BJJ stylists, you will always end up on the ground in a fight, and you have no chance against multiple attackers, so training for it is not worthwhile.  Roll Eyes

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUrfB0Xc8ME" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUrfB0Xc8ME</a>
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 02:50:20 PM »

1. that video is as old as the internet.
2. that's not really "multiple" attackers.  Each guy stood there and watched while the other got his ass kicked.
3. any wrestler or BJJ yellow belt would have instantly gone for a double let and put that guy on his ass.
4. it has already been proven that a striker with no takedown defense will lose to a grappler...every time.

hope that helps.
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Benny B
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 03:12:34 PM »

1. that video is as old as the internet.
So what?  Roll Eyes
Quote
2. that's not really "multiple" attackers.  Each guy stood there and watched while the other got his ass kicked.
That's how the fight played out, dummy. It wasn't scripted. Just because each person did not react the way you wanted them to does not make the results irrelevant.
Multiple attackers = fighting more than one person.
 
Quote
3. any wrestler or BJJ yellow belt would have instantly gone for a double let and put that guy on his ass.
BJJ does not have "yellow belts." The double leg takedown is fine. What's next?
Rolling around on the ground gives ample opportunity for the other guy to build up the courage to kick you in the head, smack your woman again, etc.

Quote
4. it has already been proven that a striker with no takedown defense will lose to a grappler...every time.
Really? You've seen every street fight in every country? Amazing!  Roll Eyes

Quote
hope that helps.
No, sorry. It actually failed miserably and was a terrible waste of time.

Who's got next?
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2011, 03:19:44 PM »

I didn't think it was possible, but Benny is 100% right.

Going to the ground, going for a takedown when multiple people are trying to fuck you up, pulling guard= Dumbest things to do in the world when you're in a real fight
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2011, 04:11:18 PM »

I didn't think it was possible, but Benny is 100% right.

Going to the ground, going for a takedown when multiple people are trying to fuck you up, pulling guard= Dumbest things to do in the world when you're in a real fight

  Yes. If you are surrounded by multiple people trying to beat you, diplomatic skills go a much longer way than actually trying to fight them. Ryan Gracie got almost beat to death by a bunch of bikers with no fighting experience. Weight on numbers is a bitch. If you are attcked by a single guy, fight dirty! Throw sand in his eyes and then kick him really hard on the balls. Then burst his knee caps and he is essentially over.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2011, 10:18:58 AM »

So what?  ::)That's how the fight played out, dummy. It wasn't scripted. Just because each person did not react the way you wanted them to does not make the results irrelevant.
Multiple attackers = fighting more than one person.
 BJJ does not have "yellow belts." The double leg takedown is fine. What's next?
Rolling around on the ground gives ample opportunity for the other guy to build up the courage to kick you in the head, smack your woman again, etc.
Really? You've seen every street fight in every country? Amazing!  Roll Eyes
No, sorry. It actually failed miserably and was a terrible waste of time.

Who's got next?

That's weird - I just went from a yellow belt to blue belt under Alex Crispim Roll Eyes

Yes, that's how the fight played out because you had two untrained punching bags going up against an obvious boxer.  Had just one of those guys known any grappling, the outcome would have been much different.

No, I've not seen all street fights, but there's this thing called the UFC.  About 15 years ago they proved that BJJ is superior to all other forms of martial arts, when a 185lb pencil neck ran over a bunch of trained Karate, Boxing, etc. strikers.
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2011, 10:21:00 AM »

I didn't think it was possible, but Benny is 100% right.

Going to the ground, going for a takedown when multiple people are trying to fuck you up, pulling guard= Dumbest things to do in the world when you're in a real fight

I agree 100%.  pulling guard in a street fight against even just one person, let alone more, would be stupid.  The best thing to do is what the guy in the video did.  Hit hard and fast and try to end the fight quickly.  Just pray that the guy(s) you're fighting with, doesn't know how to create distance and then shoot in...
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 10:25:15 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=befAdriVcQU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=befAdriVcQU</a>

Not that it proves anything, but here's a street fight were BJJ comes out on top.  There are dozens of these videos on youtube...
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2011, 10:27:30 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyXERDeMbKI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyXERDeMbKI</a>

boom!
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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2011, 11:16:17 AM »

Dont talk shit, shooting in for a takedown.Seriously youve been watching too much UFC where fights are controlled.If somebody shoots in for a take down theres so much 'illegal' shit you could do to them before they pull that armbar shit if you know how to fight. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2011, 12:16:37 PM »

Dont talk shit, shooting in for a takedown.Seriously youve been watching too much UFC where fights are controlled.If somebody shoots in for a take down theres so much 'illegal' shit you could do to them before they pull that armbar shit if you know how to fight. Roll Eyes

Dude, even in a street fight most people abide by some kind of unspoken rules i.e. no eye gouging, nut shots, etc.  Otherwise, fuck the fighting and start the shooting Roll Eyes
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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2011, 01:25:50 PM »

According to most BJJ stylists, you THEY will always end up on the ground OUT COLD in a fight, and you have no chance against multiple attackers, so training for it is not worthwhile.  Roll Eyes


FIXED!  Wink

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Benny B
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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2011, 06:58:07 PM »

That's weird - I just went from a yellow belt to blue belt under Alex Crispim Roll Eyes
I figured I was dealing with a BJJ guy (or possibly fanboy) who has drunk the whole pitcher of Kool-Aid.  Roll Eyes

That sure IS weird. I went from white belt to blue belt under Royler Gracie. Never heard of Crispim...I'm sure he's a fine teacher.  Undecided Where is his school?

How old are you, fourteen? I know they have a different belt pattern for kids, but I started as an adult.

Quote
Yes, that's how the fight played out because you had two untrained punching bags going up against an obvious boxer.  Had just one of those guys known any grappling, the outcome would have been much different.
MOST people fighting on the street are untrained. You may think we live in a world of "mma bad asses" walking the streets because you spend all your time on the mat and on the couch watching mma fights, but most street thugs don't have the money or the interest in training in a formalized martial arts program.
If ONE of those guys were a better STRIKER, the outcome may have been different. That goes without saying. But guess what? They didn't. AND...what if the guy you take down has a knife?

Quote
No, I've not seen all street fights, but there's this thing called the UFC.  About 15 years ago they proved that BJJ is superior to all other forms of martial arts, when a 185lb pencil neck ran over a bunch of trained Karate, Boxing, etc. strikers.
The UFC is NOT a streetfight, dipshit. That was the point I tried to explain to you in my first post. Obviously, it soared over your head like a 747.  Roll Eyes
There are MANY variables that come into play in a streetfight that you don't have to worry about in a one-on-one challenge match on a soft mat and in front of a passive crowd that you don't have to fear may become involved.

Damn son, your BJJ teacher told you a few things, and you just gobbled that shit up by the spoonful, didn't you.  Cheesy

Open your mind. Always understand that when you are being taught an art, the teacher of that art has a vested interest in you believing that art is superior to all others. Obviously I know the benefits of jits, since I studied it myself. But I know that it is NOT a complete system for self defense.
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Benny B
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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2011, 06:58:54 PM »

I agree 100%.  pulling guard in a street fight against even just one person, let alone more, would be stupid.  The best thing to do is what the guy in the video did.  Hit hard and fast and try to end the fight quickly.  Just pray that the guy(s) you're fighting with, doesn't know how to create distance and then shoot in...

You are at least making SOME sense here.  Smiley
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Benny B
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« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2011, 07:15:53 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=befAdriVcQU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=befAdriVcQU</a>

Not that it proves anything, but here's a street fight were BJJ comes out on top.  There are dozens of these videos on youtube...

You are looking at a one-on-one challenge match where apparently no one in the audience was interested in being anything other than a spectator. OF COURSE I am familiar with this type of situation. There are plenty of videos from the Gracies...including my teacher Royler...that display this type of one-on-one encounter. In this type of situation, a well trained grappler always has the advantage.

Don't you see how neatly this fits into your "UFC shows the superiority of grappling in a street fight" theory? It is virtually the same as a cage fight. Two guys going at it in front of a non-threatening crowd, with plenty of space, and with no other variables at play.

Now, what if this encounter occurred at a night club...very crowded...not too much room to maneuver. Before the fight breaks out, one accuses the other of disrespecting his girl by flirting with her and touching her ass on the dance floor. One guy has two friends standing behind him, looking menacing and ready to back up their friend. The other *appears* to be by himself, but actually came with five other guys who are all around the club. Tell me, should *any* of the gentlemen in this scenario go for an immediate double leg take down, given the lack of space at hand, and given the MANY variables at play? You've got chairs, guys wearing steel-toed boots, beer bottles, etc. What if one (or more) of the guys in this fight are carrying knives? You think grappling range is best, or maybe having experience fighting more than one guy and keeping a healthy distance may be your best bet?
And yes, I've seen/been involved in this type of situation on more than one occasion.
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Benny B
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« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2011, 07:21:33 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyXERDeMbKI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyXERDeMbKI</a>

boom!
If you were paying attention AT ALL, Bas stated that while you DO NOT want the fight to go to the ground, if it does it is great to know jiu jitsu. I never stated otherwise. Try re-reading my first post after you've detoxed and your teacher's Kool-Aid has left your system.  Roll Eyes I wouldn't have bothered studying BJJ myself if I did not believe it did not have any merit.

I could put up COUNTLESS videos by Bas where he is giving street self-defense advice that entails ZERO grappling. He has several dvds and clips from them are up on youtube.
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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2011, 07:30:41 PM »

The good thing about BJJ is as a striker it teaches u how to stay on your feet, when opponents are trying to push u in a corner or take you down. at least thats how it helped me. Subs I never seen one out side the ring. if you can hit, your gonna just hit the guy not spend all this time setting up subs. The fighters I've ever met who are dead set on subs, is usually cause they cant, or don't know how to hit very hard.
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Benny B
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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2011, 07:36:27 PM »

Grappling takes on an entirely new dynamic when your attacker has a concealed weapon, which you will not be prepared for if you think a street fight is the same as the highly regulated UFC cage fights you use as gospel. I have been involved in martial arts for many years, and I honestly fear for you young lads that think that because you train in "mma" that you are invincible on the streets.  Undecided

If in the first video presented, the attacker immediately went for a take down, however the guy on his back always keeps a switchblade strapped to his calf, what might happen? If you take me down, and instead of fighting off your armbar or choke attempts,  I immediately pull my knife and stab you three times in rapid succession in your side, would you consider it a "victory" if you choke me out before you start to bleed out, "Evolver?"



How much of your grappling training with Alex Crispim looks like this, "Evolver?"
Jon Fitch gets in a Knife Fight
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGUoZyJs18" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGUoZyJs18</a>
My guess is, if you think the UFC is the be-all-end-all for street fighting "Evolver," not much of your training at all has this type of element of realism added.  Wink

 
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Benny B
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« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2011, 07:43:55 PM »

The good thing about BJJ is as a striker it teaches u how to stay on your feet, when opponents are trying to push u in a corner or take you down. at least thats how it helped me. Subs I never seen one out side the ring. if you can hit, your gonna just hit the guy not spend all this time setting up subs. The fighters I've ever met who are dead set on subs, is usually cause they cant, or don't know how to hit very hard.
YES!  Smiley
To me, if your goal is self defense, you definitely want to learn some BJJ (or Sambo, Judo, Catch Wrestling, etc.). You at the very least want to be able to defend yourself against it, and get back to your feet if possible.

Now, if you have no weapons or onlookers to worry about and you feel strongly about being able to choke out a potential assailant, then go for it. Roll around to your hearts content in the dirt or concrete with twigs, bugs, broken glass particles, or other crap in your hair until you get that submission.  Smiley
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Benny B
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« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2011, 07:50:52 PM »

Dude, even in a street fight most people abide by some kind of unspoken rules i.e. no eye gouging, nut shots, etc.  Otherwise, fuck the fighting and start the shooting Roll Eyes
Not from where I come from. And you certainly shouldn't EXPECT this kind of "unspoken code of conduct" should you really get into it with someone you don't know and your life could be on the line.  Wink

If you are in a fight with me and I am defending my spouse, friend or other family member, EVERYTHING is fair game. If you don't protect your nuts...unless you are a beast or high on coke or something, I will likely make short work of you.  Wink


These kinds of threads are fun for me. Let's not take it all too seriously. My goal sincerely is to educate and inform based on my martial arts experience.  Smiley
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Nathan
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« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2011, 08:42:12 PM »

Every thing does go in a street fight lol what unwritten code? There is no code only survival.
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« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2011, 09:51:29 PM »

Dude, even in a street fight most people abide by some kind of unspoken rules



HHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHHAAHAH AHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Grin
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2011, 08:51:01 AM »

This guy cracks me up.Another 1 who thinks because he knows BJJ that hes a killer now because hes seen a bunch of UFC fighters end fights with a submission hold LOL Dude i train martial arts but im far from invincible in a fight just because i train.Stick to playing UFC undisputed on your PS3  Cool
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George Whorewell
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2011, 09:28:27 AM »

Not from where I come from. And you certainly shouldn't EXPECT this kind of "unspoken code of conduct" should you really get into it with someone you don't know and your life could be on the line.  Wink

If you are in a fight with me and I am defending my spouse, friend or other family member, EVERYTHING is fair game. If you don't protect your nuts...unless you are a beast or high on coke or something, I will likely make short work of you.  Wink


These kinds of threads are fun for me. Let's not take it all too seriously. My goal sincerely is to educate and inform based on my martial arts experience.  Smiley

When someone in Benny's homeless community tries to take his shopping cart full of cans or trash feast of banana peels and chewed gum, he is difficult to stop.
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2011, 03:34:11 PM »

We have a bunch of tough guys thugs here Roll Eyes Please post videos of street fights where people are getting their eyes gouged out or bitten.
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