Author Topic: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach  (Read 73710 times)

Option D

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #150 on: June 19, 2012, 06:38:15 AM »
What comments have i posted about egypt?

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #151 on: June 19, 2012, 06:40:43 AM »



Don't remember, but considering you melt down when anyone attacks the messiah, its fun to lump you in w the likes of andre, 180, benny, blackass.

 :P  :P

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #152 on: June 19, 2012, 06:58:38 AM »

Don't remember, but considering you melt down when anyone attacks the messiah, its fun to lump you in w the likes of andre, 180, benny, blackass.

 :P  :P

So you admit you got nothin


hahahahaha

Factcheck/getbig.org says youre full of shit...

I blasted Obama for his last shit with the mexicans... and Gitmo....and Weak healthcare and im on record with my support for Ron Paul
Fatality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Scorpion Wins

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #153 on: June 19, 2012, 11:40:52 AM »
41 rockets slam into Southern Israel
 Israel National News ^ | June 19, 2012 | Gil Ronen




41 Rockets Slam into South, IAF Strikes Kill Six Terrorists killed Monday were an Egyptian and a Saudi, who dedicated attack to Osama Bin Laden. By Gil Ronen First Publish: 6/19/2012, 6:36 PM (Flash 90)Forty-one terrorist rockets slammed into southern Israel between midnight and 8:30 p.m. Monday. The IAF has carried out three strikes on terror targets in Gaza in the last 24 hours, killing at least six terrorists. An IAF strike Tuesday afternoon severely injured a man who was on a motorcycle, Gaza sources said. Hamas has taken responsibility for the rocket fire at the Negev. It said it was trying to hit the IDF's Zikim base, and that the rockets were a response to IAF strikes last night. No Israeli casualties have been reported but thousands of residents have been forced to spend the day in shelters. The two terrorists who infiltrated Israel Monday were a Saudi citizen and an Egyptian belonging to a hitherto unknown group called the Shura Council of the Mujahedeen at Al Quds, Associated Press reported. The two appear in a video made public by the group in which they can be seen reading their final wills before launching the attack. In a leaflet published along with the video, the group dedicates the attack to the Al Aqsa Mosque, Arab terror prisoners held in Israel, and Osama bin Laden. The terrorists killed one person before being killed themselves.


(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #154 on: June 24, 2012, 09:07:22 AM »
Bump for straw and fagbear

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #155 on: June 24, 2012, 09:52:32 AM »

By Yasmin Helal
 Al Arabiya


An Egyptian plumber in Alexandria beat his pregnant wife to death upon learning that she had not voted for Muslim Brotherhood presidential candidate Mohammed Mursi, reported the Egyptian daily al-Wafd on Sunday.
 
According to police reports, the initial argument between the couple who was not named escalated into violence, despite her pleas. Battered and bruised, she was reported to have died at the hospital from injuries sustained.
 
Domestic fights have dominated Egyptian news headlines when the bid fell on the two most feared and most controversial candidates, Mursi and former prime minister Ahmed Shafiq.

 Voters, along with Egyptian media personalities, heatedly defended their chosen candidates and eagerly await the result which will be announced Sunday.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/06/24/222413.html

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #156 on: June 24, 2012, 02:44:20 PM »
White House 'Congratulates' Morsi on Winning Egyptian Presidential Election
weeklystandard.com ^ | June 24, 2012 | DANIEL HALPER
Posted on June 24, 2012 2:31:47 PM EDT by Free ThinkerNY

White House spokesman Jay Carney issued the following statement in response to the Egyptian presidential election:

"The United States congratulates Dr. Mohamed Morsi on his victory in Egypt’s Presidential election, and we congratulate the Egyptian people for this milestone in their transition to democracy.

"We look forward to working together with President-elect Morsi and the government he forms, on the basis of mutual respect, to advance the many shared interests between Egypt and the United States. We believe that it is important for President-elect Morsi to take steps at this historic time to advance national unity by reaching out to all parties and constituencies in consultations about the formation of a new government. We believe in the importance of the new Egyptian government upholding universal values, and respecting the rights of all Egyptian citizens – including women and religious minorities such as Coptic Christians. Millions of Egyptians voted in the election, and President-elect Morsi and the new Egyptian government have both the legitimacy and responsibility of representing a diverse and courageous citizenry.

(Excerpt) Read more at weeklystandard.com ...

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #157 on: June 24, 2012, 03:00:56 PM »
Flashback- W.H.: Muslim Brotherhood "Secular," Won't Seek Presidency
Pundit Press ^ | 6/24/12 | Aurelius
Posted on June 24, 2012 11:47:48 AM EDT by therightliveswithus

The White House does not want you to remember some facts today. Unfortunately for them, the internet never forgets.

In February of last year, the White House was very busy giving the Muslim Brotherhood free PR. This prompted the Telegraph to write an article entitled, "The Muslim Brotherhood gets a PR makeover from the Obama administration."

In the piece, Administration officials are quoted as saying that the Muslim Brotherhood is a "largely secular" organisation that "eschewed violence." Today, after winning the Presidency, the M.B. declared that, "Allah willing," their new capital would be in Jerusalem. Something tells me that they are planning something that does not "eschew violence."

And the most ironic piece of news is that, back when the White House was giving the Brotherhood free publicity, the M.B. decided to declare that they would not seek the Egyptian Presidency. The White House welcomed the news. And this is the most ironic screenshot of the day (click on the image for better quality):

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #158 on: June 24, 2012, 06:59:59 PM »
Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi: “Jihad Is Our Path & Death in the Name of Allah Is Our Goal”
Gateway Pundit ^ | 6/24/12 | Jim Hoft
Posted on June 24, 2012 9:47:10 PM EDT by Nachum

Muslim Brotherhood presidential candidate Mohamed Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood told supporters last month, “Jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal.” Lovely. Voice of Russia reported, via ROP:

Egypt’s Constitution should be based on the Koran and Sharia law, presidential candidate from the Muslim Brotherhood Islamist movement Mohamed Morsi said.

“The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal,” Morsi said in his election speech before Cairo University students on Saturday night.

Today Egypt is close as never before to the triumph of Islam at all the state levels, he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at thegatewaypundit.com ...

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #159 on: June 24, 2012, 07:01:24 PM »
Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi: “Jihad Is Our Path & Death in the Name of Allah Is Our Goal”
Gateway Pundit ^ | 6/24/12 | Jim Hoft
Posted on June 24, 2012 9:47:10 PM EDT by Nachum

Muslim Brotherhood presidential candidate Mohamed Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood told supporters last month, “Jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal.” Lovely. Voice of Russia reported, via ROP:

Egypt’s Constitution should be based on the Koran and Sharia law, presidential candidate from the Muslim Brotherhood Islamist movement Mohamed Morsi said.

“The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal,” Morsi said in his election speech before Cairo University students on Saturday night.

Today Egypt is close as never before to the triumph of Islam at all the state levels, he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at thegatewaypundit.com ...

Great success!


Vince G, CSN MFT

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #161 on: June 24, 2012, 07:04:12 PM »
Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi: “Jihad Is Our Path & Death in the Name of Allah Is Our Goal”
Gateway Pundit ^ | 6/24/12 | Jim Hoft
Posted on June 24, 2012 9:47:10 PM EDT by Nachum

Muslim Brotherhood presidential candidate Mohamed Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood told supporters last month, “Jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal.” Lovely. Voice of Russia reported, via ROP:

Egypt’s Constitution should be based on the Koran and Sharia law, presidential candidate from the Muslim Brotherhood Islamist movement Mohamed Morsi said.

“The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal,” Morsi said in his election speech before Cairo University students on Saturday night.

Today Egypt is close as never before to the triumph of Islam at all the state levels, he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at thegatewaypundit.com ...



Of course its going to be based on Sharia Law...its an Islamic Country.  We are a nation that has laws based on Christian Laws.

That was never going to change no matter who was elected to office.  It would be silly to think that it would somehow become like the U.S.  Its an Arab country...deal with it
A

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #162 on: June 24, 2012, 07:05:45 PM »

Of course its going to be based on Sharia Law...its an Islamic Country.  We are a nation that has laws based on Christian Laws.

That was never going to change no matter who was elected to office.  It would be silly to think that it would somehow become like the U.S.  Its an Arab country...deal with it

Shame on you.

Vince G, CSN MFT

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #163 on: June 24, 2012, 07:12:04 PM »
Shame on you.


Get your head out of ass.....the vast majority of people in that country is Muslim so obviously they are going to follow Sharia Law....that was never going to change
A

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #164 on: June 24, 2012, 07:28:17 PM »

Get your head out of ass.....the vast majority of people in that country is Muslim so obviously they are going to follow Sharia Law....that was never going to change
Big Ach resents this remark.

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #165 on: June 24, 2012, 07:37:01 PM »

Get your head out of ass.....the vast majority of people in that country is Muslim so obviously they are going to follow Sharia Law....that was never going to change

If imam asked you TP commit hari Kari would you? 

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #166 on: June 25, 2012, 11:44:11 AM »
Egypt’s hopes betrayed

 Telegraph View: the liberal, secularist dream of Egypt's revolution has been betrayed by the army and Islamists.
 
By Telegraph View

7:34AM BST 25 Jun 2012






Pity those liberal, secularist Egyptians who drove the revolution that ousted Hosni Mubarak 16 months ago. Like a nut, they have been cracked between the military, who have dominated the country for the past 60 years, and the Muslim Brotherhood, who claim to be moderate, but whose ultimate goal remains the imposition of sharia.
 

Yesterday’s announcement of Mohammed Morsi’s victory in the presidential election results from a deal between the Freedom and Justice Party, the Brotherhood’s political arm, and the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. Under it, the military will control internal security, defence and foreign policy, leaving domestic matters largely in Mr Morsi’s hands. For the moderates, this means the threat of repression on one hand and Islamicisation on the other.
 

At least the Brotherhood have a legitimate claim to power, after winning both parliamentary and presidential elections. By contrast, the military – in conjunction with the supreme court – has done all it can to retain its authority. On June 14, the court ruled that the electoral law was unconstitutional and that parliament, elected last year, should be dissolved. The SCAF then arrogated to themselves the right to legislate, and to select the body producing the new constitution.
 

The best that can be expected is that the rival ambitions of the two sides will ensure mutual constraint. But the reversal of the timetable for democratic transition by the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces is more likely to produce bitter frustration and possibly chaos, with competing centres of power strangling desperately needed attempts to revive Egypt’s economy. Whatever happens, the hopes raised by those heady weeks in Tahrir Square have been cruelly betrayed.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/9353445/Egypts-hopes-betrayed.html


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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #167 on: June 25, 2012, 01:39:35 PM »
Brothers’ Day

By Mark Steyn

June 25, 2012 4:29 A.M.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/303860/brothers-day-mark-steyn#



Last year at NRO I wrote: “The short 90-year history of independent Egypt is that it got worse” — and was about to get “worse still.” Eighty years ago, Egypt was ruled by a ramshackle, free-ish monarchy in mimicry of the Westminster system; forty years ago, it was under the control of authoritarian, secular pan-Arab nationalists; and now the Muslim Brotherhood guy has won the election.
 
But don’t worry, on the day Mubarak stepped down, America’s director of national intelligence, who presides over the most lavishly funded intelligence bureaucracy on the planet, was telling the world that the Muslim Brotherhood is “largely secular.” So that’s okay.
 
The linked clip of me and Megyn Kelly aired an hour or so after Mubarak’s resignation, and is the same interview in which I said this was the dawn of the post-Western Middle East. “Experts” can get a lot of things wrong, but rarely on the scale of the Western media in February 2011, even as they were on the sharp end of the ”Facebook Revolution”:
 

Within minutes of Mubarak’s resignation, the CBS reporter Lara Logan, covering events in Tahrir Square, was set upon by a 200-strong mob who stripped her, punched her, beat her with flagpoles, and subjected her to a half-hour sexual assault by multiple participants while shouting “Jew! Jew!…”

What’s striking about this story is not so much that her own employer, CBS News, chose not to run it until over three days later - on the following Monday – but that in the intervening period they pumped out the same sappy drivel as everybody else – ”Egypt’s New Age Revolution” (60 Minutes), “Egypt Proved Change Is Possible, Sexy And Cool!” (CBS Sunday Morning) – even as they knew there was another side to the story, and that their own correspondent was lying in the hospital traumatised because of it.
 
We can’t do anything about the disposition of the Egyptian electorate, but we could at least stop deluding ourselves. Mubarak, according to various reports, is in a coma, or “clinically dead,” or near death. Let’s suppose the “Facebook Revolution” had never happened, and he’d continued ruling until stricken by ill health a year or so later. Does anyone suppose his successor would have been any worse than the Brotherhood/military carve-up Egypt’s wound up with?
 
Or, as CBS would put it, any less “sexy and cool”?
 

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #168 on: June 25, 2012, 02:05:31 PM »
Obama Phones to Congratulate Muslim B'hood on Victory in Egypt’s ‘Milestone’ Election
 CNS News ^ | 6/24/2012 | Patrick Goodenough




CNSNews.com) – President Obama phoned the Muslim Brotherhood’s Mohammed Morsi on Sunday evening to congratulate him on becoming Egypt’s new president, the U.S. Embassy in Cairo said in a Twitter message around 7 PM eastern time.

Earlier, White House press secretary Jay Carney in a statement called the Islamist’s election a “milestone” in Egyptians’ transition to democracy.

“Millions of Egyptians voted in the election, and President-elect Morsi and the new Egyptian government have both the legitimacy and responsibility of representing a diverse and courageous citizenry,” he said.

Egypt’s election commission earlier announced that Morsi had beaten his second-round opponent, former prime minister Ahmed Shafiq, by a margin of 51.7 to 48.3 percent – or just 800,000 votes.

Results had been delayed for four days, worsening an already tense atmosphere after an incident-laden campaign, including a recent court ruling dissolving the Muslim Brotherhood-dominated parliament and claims of a power grab by the ruling military council.

Carney commended both the election commission and the military council “for their role in supporting a free and fair election, and look forward to the completion of a transition to a democratically-elected government.”

“We look forward to working together with President-elect Morsi and the government he forms, on the basis of mutual respect, to advance the many shared interests between Egypt and the United States,” the statement read.

“We believe that it is important for President-elect Morsi to take steps at this historic time to advance national unity by reaching out to all parties and constituencies in consultations about the formation of a new government.

“We believe in the importance of the new Egyptian government upholding universal values, and respecting the rights of all Egyptian citizens – including women and religious minorities such as Coptic Christians.”

Muslim Brotherhood supporters celebrate the victory of Mohammed Morsi, in Cairo on Sunday. (AP Photo/Amr Nabil)

In his first address after the results were announced, Morsi said on state television he would be the leader “of all Egyptians.” Copts were widely reported to have supported non-Islamist candidates in the first round of voting, and Shafiq in the runoff.

Iran’s foreign ministry hailed Morsi’s victory, declaring that Egypt was in the “final stages of the Islamic Awakening and a new era of change in the Middle East.”

Celebrations were reported in the Gaza Strip, where tens of thousands of Palestinians demonstrated. Hamas leader called Morsi’s win “a victory for all Arabs and Muslims.”

Hamas, the terrorist group that controls Gaza, was set up in 1987 as a Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Its founding charter calls for Jews to be killed and says all Muslims are duty-bound to join a jihad to destroy Israel. The U.S. government has designated Hamas as a “foreign terrorist organization” since 1997.

Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s office said in a brief statement it respected the outcome of the Egyptian election.

“Israel looks forward to continuing cooperation with the Egyptian government on the basis of the peace treaty between the two countries, which is a joint interest of both peoples and contributes to regional stability,” it said.

Egypt in 1979 became the first Arab country to sign a peace agreement with the Jewish state, and U.S. governments have over the ensuing decades given Egypt more than $60 billion in military aid linked to the treaty.

The fall of the Mubarak regime last year and the rise of Islamist forces prompted concerns about the future of the agreement. In a recent Pew Global Attitudes Project poll 61 percent of Egyptian respondents favored ending the treaty, up from 54 percent a year earlier.

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #169 on: June 25, 2012, 02:29:45 PM »
The New Egyptian President Reportedly Said 'Jihad Is Our Path And Death In The Name Of Allah Is Our Goal'
Ashley Lutz|Jun. 25, 2012, 2:40 PM|3,736|40




Comments reportedly made just over a month ago by new Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi have some spooked.
 
The Voice of Russia radio website reported that Mordi made the following remarks on May 13:
 
“The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal,” Morsi said in his election speech before Cairo University students on Saturday night.
 
Today Egypt is close as never before to the triumph of Islam at all the state levels, he said.
 
“Today we can establish Sharia law because our nation will acquire well-being only with Islam and Sharia. The Muslim Brothers and the Freedom and Justice Party will be the conductors of these goals,” he said.
 
While the comments have not been widely reported, they appear to have been reported by the respectable Ria Novosti news-wire, and are no doubt worrying to Middle East observers.
 
Morsi was the presidential candidate for the Muslim Brotherhood, a group that has some ideological links to radical Jihadist movements. For the most part, the Muslim Brotherhood have promised to rule Egypt in a relatively secular manner, for example denying any expansion of sharia law within the country. These comments seem to directly contradict that position.
 
Egypt is the largest Arab nation with a population of 90 million. Morsi, a former prisoner who holds a doctorate from USC, was elected to a four-year term in an election marred by violence and confusion.
 
DON'T MISS: Egypt's New Islamist President Has Already Said He Wants To Reopen Ties With Iran >


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/morsi-says-jihad-is-our-path-and-death-in-the-name-of-allah-is-our-goal-2012-6#ixzz1yqJeoSX0





Option FAIL, Benny, Andre, Straw? 

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #170 on: June 26, 2012, 03:29:06 AM »
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is doing her part to help the Muslim Brotherhood implement the Turkey Strategy in Egypt. As I’ve pointed out before, if you want to see what’s going to happen in Egypt, look at Turkey, where the military was Atatürk’s bulwark against what would otherwise be the certainty that Islamists would overwhelm the pro-Western civil society the Kemalists labored against Islamic norms to build. (Caroline Glick makes a similar argument in a characteristically sharp post.)

It has taken Turkey’s Islamic supremacist prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a decade of meticulous, determined gradualism to return Turkey to the Islamist camp. Things will go downhill much faster in Egypt, especially with the U.S. government suicidally siding with the America-hating Brotherhood. In Egypt, they have not had a nine-decade secularization project and the military, far from being committed to Western democracy, has always been rife with Islamic supremacists — several of whom went on to iconic careers in al-Qaeda and other jihadist organizations (after getting their start, of course, in the Muslim Brotherhood).

Here’s what Mrs. Clinton is telling the Arabic press: 

Egyptian military authorities must cede power to the winner of the country’s first post-Mubarak presidential elections, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton insisted Wednesday.

“We think that it is imperative that the military fulfill its promise to the Egyptian people to turn power over to the legitimate winner,” Clinton said in a discussion hosted at the State Department.

Some of the actions by the military leadership in past days were “clearly troubling,” Clinton said, sitting with former secretary of state James Baker at the event to support the creation of the first US museum for diplomacy. ”The military has to assume an appropriate role which is not to interfere with, dominate or try to subvert the constitutional authority,” she warned.

That’s the Turkey strategy in small compass. Erdogan exploited the bleating of American and European progressives to weaken Turkey’s pro-Western military — transferring control to the Islamist civilian government he controls, and installing Islamists loyal to him in place of the Kemalist military officers he has sacked. Interestingly, Mrs. Clinton does not have much to say about “subvert[ing] the constitutional authority” when Erdogan — who Obama hails as his closest regional ally — jails political opponents, military officers, and journalists.

The secretary of state paid lip-service to the need for the Brotherhood’s New Egypt to support “an inclusive democratic process, the rights of all Egyptians, women and men, Muslims and Christians, everyone has to be respected.” I’m sure Coptic Christians are very impressed, as are the smattering of authentic democrats whom the administration helped the Brotherhood steamroll.

A real opportunity here for Mitt Romney — but is he listening so much to the Brotherhood-friendly counsel of the GOP’s McCain wing that he’ll blow it?

 

Www.national review.com



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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #171 on: June 26, 2012, 05:34:53 AM »
Published on The National Interest (http://nationalinterest.org)

Source URL (retrieved on Jun 26, 2012): http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/time-give-mideast-democracy-7105



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Waking from the Democratic Dream


 


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Robert W. Merry [2]
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June 25, 2012



Robert W. Merry [2]
 
The time has come for the United States to give up on the notion of democracy in the Middle East. It isn’t going to happen, at least not anytime soon, and the country is starting to look silly with so many of its intellectuals clinging to a notion that has no basis in reality. Just look at Iraq, set upon a course that many Americans thought would lead to democracy, and paid for with the blood of more than four thousand American dead and some thirty-three thousand wounded. What do we see in today’s Iraq? A budding dictatorship moving in the direction of the last one—but with a big difference: this one is dominated by Shiites, a power arrangement that appreciably enhances the regional influence of neighboring Iran, considered by many Americans as their country’s most nettlesome adversary.
 
Look at Egypt, where the “Arab Spring” set American hearts aflutter with the prospect of democratic pluralism. The lesson there is that it’s impossible to overestimate the willingness of the traditional power blocs to upend any democratic structures or procedures that threaten their position and prerogatives in that venerable land. Consider tiny Kuwait, where the highest court just annulled the duly run parliamentary elections of February, in which opposition forces made serious gains against the country’s status quo forces. And look at Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, where any democratic sentiments are quickly quashed whenever they gain any apparent traction at all.
 
And yet in the face of all this, and more, many idealistic Americans hold fast to the idea that if we can just provide assistance and guidance and apply sufficient military power against the bad guys, democratic institutions eventually will blossom in the region. The problem here isn’t just that this notion lacks any shred of realism; more significantly, it undergirds the constant call for America to apply military force in the region on behalf of democracy . . . or the prospect of democracy . . . or at least the prospect that some Middle Eastern nation might begin a long journey toward democracy. Consider, for example, Libya, where the demise of the dictator Muammar el-Qaddafi led many Americans to visualize the stirrings of a democratic impulse, made possible in large measure by America’s judicious application of force.
 
But then it turned out that the militias that emerged during the anti-Qaddafi fervor weren’t about to relinquish their weapons or their territorial gains and that the country couldn’t rise above the chaos of tribal, ethnic and sectarian strife. It isn’t clear that Libya is really a nation at present. True, we don’t often hear today the kind of rhetoric that President George W. Bush unfurled during his second inaugural address in January 2005, when he proclaimed America’s “ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world.” That now is seen as idle talk without any foundation in serious thought. But that perception doesn’t stop many from still seeing America’s goal as the spread of democracy—and democracy’s goal as eradicating tyranny.
 
The essential problem with all this is that it is grounded in ignorance. Americans can’t fathom the power of the Islamic idea that there is no spiritual “I,” but only a spiritual “We” that has entered into the quickened body as a reflection of the divine light. The Arabic word for this, as Oswald Spengler points out, is Islam—submission. He adds that the Western religious sacrament of contrition “presupposes the strong and free will that can overcome itself. But it is precisely the impossibility of an Ego as a free power in the face of the divine that constitutes ‘Islam.’” He explains that the Islamic prime sacrament is Grace, which knows no such thing as free will.
 
As Islam emerged in the seventh century, the consensus of the community became by definition infallible. As Muhammad put it, “My people can never agree in an error.” This concept of an infallible community consensus lies at the heart of two fundamental Islamic religious ideas—first, that the individual is meaningless outside this infallible consensus and, second, that government and religion remain inseparable. Those ideas were incorporated into Islam in the seventh century and remain to this day bedrock maxims of Islamic thought—and powerful doctrinal impediments to the democratic impulse.
 
Americans know that a central tenet of Islam is an absolute conviction that government and religion are intertwined as one. But they can’t bring themselves to see that this perception is fundamental and embedded in the culture of the region. Nor can they see that this reality will always militate against the democratic impulses that inevitably spring up from time to time within the hopes and dreams of many people of the region.
 
Further, many Americans can’t see that many secular mores and folkways of the region are the product of the bedouin culture, developed over centuries of isolation in an austere and unforgiving land. As David Pryce-Jones writes in his book The Closed Circle: An Interpretation of the Arabs, Middle Eastern nationalism “simply adds what might be called an outer ring” to the tribal customs and judgments of Middle Eastern society.
 
This is particularly true of what he calls the "power-challenge dialectic," a residue from the tribal experience that both guides and constricts behavior at the national level. In tribal society, all males are theoretically equal and capable of exercising authority. Thus, to gain power a man must develop a following by demonstrating that he is heroic, ruthless, tough, cruel and understanding—in short, commanding. Since there are no formal means of selecting leaders, the informal realities unleash the power-challenge dialectic, in which challenge is the only way to get power and the accumulation of power invites challenge. As Pryce-Jones explains, the power-challenge dialectic has survived as a tribal legacy, perpetuating “absolute and despotic rule, preventing the evolution of those pluralist institutions that alone allow people to participate in the processes of the state and so to identify with it.”
 
The story of Western civilization is in significant measure the story of the slow, inexorable ascent of liberal democracy. It is a grand story, full of civic tension, brutality, sacrifice, intellectual exploration, heroism and triumph. But this is not the story of Middle Eastern Islam, which emanates from a separate cultural etymology and distinct cultural sensibility. It isn’t realistic to expect that the peoples of this cultural heritage will embrace in any serious way the structures, sensibilities and practices of an alien culture, however successful it has been in comparison.
 
But don’t take my word for it. Just look at developments in the Middle East in the wake of the American effort to remake Iraq and the Arab Spring of 2011. Do we see there an inexorable push toward democracy, or rather Pryce-Jones’s power-challenge dialectic at work? Anyone who sees the former should probably take a second look, but with a cold eye of realism.
 
Robert W. Merry is editor of The National Interest [3] and the author of books on American history and foreign policy. His next book, Where They Stand: The American Presidents in the Eyes of Voters and Historians [4], is due out on June 26 from Simon & Schuster.
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Robert W. Merry [2]
 

Topics:Democracy [5]
 Ideology [6]
 
Regions:Middle East [7]
 

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Source URL (retrieved on Jun 26, 2012): http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/time-give-mideast-democracy-7105


Links:
[1] http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php?v=250&username=nationalinterest
 [2] http://nationalinterest.org/profile/robert-w-merry-0
 [3] http://nationalinterest.org/
 [4] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1451625405/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thenatiinte-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1451625405%22%3EWhere%20They%20Stand:%20The%20American%20Presidents%20in%20the%20Eyes%20of%20Voters%20and%20Historians%3C/a%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=thenatiinte-20&l=as2&o=1&a=1451625405%22%20width=%221%22%20height=%221%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22%22%20style=%22border:none%20%21important;%20margin:0px%20%21important;%22%20/%3E%20
 [5] http://nationalinterest.org/topic/society/democracy
 [6] http://nationalinterest.org/topic/society/ideology
 [7] http://nationalinterest.org/region/middle-east

dario73

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #172 on: June 26, 2012, 06:06:10 AM »

Get your head out of ass.....the vast majority of people in that country is Muslim so obviously they are going to follow Sharia Law....that was never going to change

The Obama administration should have taken your advice. If they would have, they would have never labeled the Muslim Brotherhood as a "secular" organization.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #173 on: June 26, 2012, 06:10:11 AM »
The Obama administration should have taken your advice. If they would have, they would have never labeled the Muslim Brotherhoos as a "secular" organization.

I almost pity the 95ers like Vince blackass benny Option Fail et al at this point for how low they have had to sink to defend obama.   

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Re: Egypt And The Success Of Obama's Reasoned Approach
« Reply #174 on: June 26, 2012, 06:49:59 AM »
I almost pity the 95ers like Vince blackass benny Option Fail et al at this point for how low they have had to sink to defend obama.   

So...
what are we talking about here..lol...Wheres you beef this time?
Muslims took over in Egypt?.