Author Topic: American colleges: Education worth the price?  (Read 6672 times)

theonlyone

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American colleges: Education worth the price?
« on: February 14, 2011, 05:41:55 AM »
 More and more American students are facing enormous tuition debt and low job prospects after graduating from college. Some find the solution of finding work abroad, but millions are settling for less.

Is the US raising a generation of janitors with PhDs?

Modern-day post-college survival is no joke.

“I have $76,000 dollars in college debt,” said unemployed college graduate Larry Hales, who has been unsuccessfully looking for work for over a year and a half.

Haunted by tuition debt, Hales is one of America's college degree owners facing a job market that has long ago thrown out the welcome mat.

“Young people have twice the unemployment rate of most Americans,” said filmmaker Danny Schechter.

College grads are stepping out into the world at the worst time to try to land a job – with around 2 million of them unemployed.

The dire market is forcing many to forget their skills and agree to any nearly any job offer.

Over 300,000 waiters and over 18,000 parking lot attendants working in the US are said to have a college degree.

Moreover, the US Bureau of Labor statistics suggests as many as 17 million Americans with college degrees are forced to work jobs requiring fewer skills than a Bachelors degree provides, raising an entire generation of overqualified employees.

“As we have an ever-higher percentage of kids in college, an ever higher percentage of kids graduating at the same time as ever – more companies are hiring fewer people,” said Marty Nemko, an education consultant and career counselor from California.

Inspired by the traditional American promise of a dream life after college, what students aren’t told however, is that the cash and time they are investing is going to come back to bite them.

At 22, Charles holds a Bachelors degree in film and a dream of directing and is already about to settle for less.

“You do wonder sometimes, was college a waste of time, with the economy that we are in,” said the unemployed graduate.

The young man is looking for any available job to pay off his student loan debt, but has not been able to find any paid work.

“I spent probably like $65,000 to seventy thousand on college. And that’s all tuition bills that are going to start coming in soon”, Charles added.

Apart from waving a dream career goodbye, another big trend is debt driving more than career choice, but rather – destinies.

“You want to help poor children as a physician? Good luck with your four hundred thousand dollars in debt! People’s college and university debt is beginning to pick their careers, who they marry, where they live,” said Economist Max Fraad Wolff.

With the economies of other countries beginning to excel again, job hunting abroad is becoming more attractive than in the US.

“A lot of my friends are considering jobs outside of the U.S. – in India. They are considering Argentina, and China,” explained college graduate Tanushree Isaacman.

With $50,000 of college debt Tanushree believes debt walks hand in hand with American culture, it’s simply the cost of living the American life.

“It is education debt, then it’s debt on taking out loans on houses and cars and such, and you live from one debt to another,” the 26-year-old explained.

The US strives to lead the world in the number of college graduates. At the same time, not enough jobs are being created to meet demand as student debt piles up, forcing millions of Americans to settle for less than what they dreamed of.

Lauren Kelley, an associate editor at AlterNet explained Americans simply spend far too much on higher education, forcing many into debt they may never be able to pay off.

That being said, there is no need to discourage people from a college education. People need options.

“We have not invested in any sort of vocational training,” she said. “There should be the option of vocational school.”

In the US there is a tendency to see vocational programs as lesser or inferior. When, in fact, such programs are necessary for a number of sectors of the American economy.

Traditional college and a liberal arts education is not right for everyone, explained Kelley. There needs to be option so people can choose what best fits them.

As student pay for an education they may not want nor need, they enter a world in debt and unable to find work. If given greater options are presented there should be a major shift in the level of debt.

“If they can get a head start now on a career that will actually be beneficial to them, all the better, but it’s just not something we prepare our student for,” explained Kelley.

All students have to make the right choice for them, and need to be given the opportunity to pick from options, she argued.

Hereford

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2011, 09:54:05 AM »
I can't believe how many people I know get degrees in useless things in college (theater? womens studies? recreation management??) and then cry and moan about not being able to find a job.. .or making $26K/yr after graduating.

College is a business like any other. They are there to make money, and is some fool will pay $65000 for a film degree, of course the ssystem is going to accomidate them.

Fury

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2011, 09:58:03 AM »
America's colleges must suck. It would explain why all of Russia's best students come here to do their graduate degrees.

GigantorX

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2011, 10:41:34 AM »
As long as the colleges/universities know that they will be able to keep up enrollment because of federally subsidized loans no matter how high they make tuition.....the cost of college will never, ever come down.

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2011, 10:45:23 AM »
As long as the colleges/universities know that they will be able to keep up enrollment because of federally subsidized loans no matter how high they make tuition.....the cost of college will never, ever come down.

This.  Again, if the feds would stay out of the way, the BUSINESS of college would adjust accordingly. 

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2011, 10:46:54 AM »
As long as the colleges/universities know that they will be able to keep up enrollment because of federally subsidized loans no matter how high they make tuition.....the cost of college will never, ever come down.

Did you ever see my Schiff video on college inflation?

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2011, 11:28:06 AM »
Another thing that annoys me is the way colleges try to act like they aren't a business.....I had to remind a couple of professors of that.  Kinda nice being a bit older after the military and going back to college. I called them out on numerous occasions on bullshit.  the kids in the classes loved me.....and most of the profs did too, but some were just career douches that needed a reality check. 

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2011, 11:28:51 AM »
This.  Again, if the feds would stay out of the way, the BUSINESS of college would adjust accordingly. 
Don`t forget the private loan industry as well.  They have been the absolute worst. 

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2011, 11:35:08 AM »
Another thing that annoys me is the way colleges try to act like they aren't a business.....I had to remind a couple of professors of that.  Kinda nice being a bit older after the military and going back to college. I called them out on numerous occasions on bullshit.  the kids in the classes loved me.....and most of the profs did too, but some were just career douches that needed a reality check. 
Exactly.  There should not be a profit motive in college which is why I wish their were a separation of sports and athletics from education.  Most tuition hikes are a result of an ever growing athletics program.  The highest paid faculty members are the red-faced coaches and their staff. 

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2011, 11:35:42 AM »
Don`t forget the private loan industry as well.  They have been the absolute worst. 

Totally agree.  they have abused the system for far too long.  I'm thankful I utilized the GI Bill and didn't have to deal with it. 

The True Adonis

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2011, 11:42:08 AM »
The other irony here is, the deeper one is in debt with college loans, the likelihood that one will be hired increases.  The corporations then have you and love someone demoralized as a result of debt.  They know you aren`t going ANYWHERE as you have to pay off your debt which makes you beholden to whatever interest they have in order for you to keep your head just above water.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2011, 11:43:27 AM »
I can't believe how many people I know get degrees in useless things in college (theater? womens studies? recreation management??) and then cry and moan about not being able to find a job.. .or making $26K/yr after graduating.

College is a business like any other. They are there to make money, and is some fool will pay $65000 for a film degree, of course the ssystem is going to accomidate them.
yea exactly and they let these people come right into high schools an recruit people into these lousy directions.  Parents really need to direct their children; if they leave it up to the school and the crap influence they bring in, your kid might come home demanding he/she get a degree in film or some other arts where they stand a 99.99 percent chance at failure and you end up waisting all your money on.  Now if your kid is really, and I mean really talented in that shit, then go for it, but they need to be really fucking talented beyond belief or forget it.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2011, 11:46:16 AM »
This.  Again, if the feds would stay out of the way, the BUSINESS of college would adjust accordingly. 
now you guys are talking Ron Paul ;D

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2011, 11:46:54 AM »
yea exactly and they let these people come right into high schools an recruit people into these lousy directions.  Parents really need to direct their children; if they leave it up to the school and the crap influence they bring in, your kid might come home demanding he/she get a degree in film or some other arts where they stand a 99.99 percent chance at failure and you end up waisting all your money on.  Now if your kid is really, and I mean really talented in that shit, then go for it, but they need to be really fucking talented beyond belief or forget it.
How does someone know they are talented if they have never been given a chance to display or learn it?

The Showstoppa

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2011, 11:48:47 AM »
The other irony here is, the deeper one is in debt with college loans, the likelihood that one will be hired increases.  The corporations then have you and love someone demoralized as a result of debt.  They know you aren`t going ANYWHERE as you have to pay off your debt which makes you beholden to whatever interest they have in order for you to keep your head just above water.

Correct again.  I worked for Wells Fargo when I first graduated......awful experience and I was so glad that I wasn't buried in debt and could walk away after a year....i just stayed to keep the resume looking decent.  But there were 2 or 3 other people in the office who had "bought the dream" and had a car loan, home loan, education loan, etc.... and were stuck. 

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2011, 11:50:52 AM »
yea exactly and they let these people come right into high schools an recruit people into these lousy directions.  Parents really need to direct their children; if they leave it up to the school and the crap influence they bring in, your kid might come home demanding he/she get a degree in film or some other arts where they stand a 99.99 percent chance at failure and you end up waisting all your money on.  Now if your kid is really, and I mean really talented in that shit, then go for it, but they need to be really fucking talented beyond belief or forget it.

I don't actually agree with this. If someone wants to pursue something, more power to them. China's graduating 3 million engineers a year right now. Do you think there's anywhere near that many engineering jobs out there in China for those students? Not a fucking chance.

BayGBM

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2011, 11:52:40 AM »
It is even worse for law school grads! Big debts, a degree, and no job.   :'(

Is Law School a Losing Game?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?sq=law%20school&st=cse&scp=3&pagewanted=all

Unless you are 1) going to a top ten law school, 2) have someone who will pay your tuition or 3) have a father, uncle, etc, that is a partner in a firm and can literally guarantee you a well paying job upon graduation I would not recommend law school to young people today; the cost is enormous and the prospects are very bleak. 

Check out some of the blogs for recent law grads
http://shillingmesoftly.blogspot.com/
http://subprimejd.blogspot.com/
http://rosecoloredglassesjd.blogspot.com/
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/

Mr. Magoo

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2011, 11:54:49 AM »
yea exactly and they let these people come right into high schools an recruit people into these lousy directions.  Parents really need to direct their children; if they leave it up to the school and the crap influence they bring in, your kid might come home demanding he/she get a degree in film or some other arts where they stand a 99.99 percent chance at failure and you end up waisting all your money on.  Now if your kid is really, and I mean really talented in that shit, then go for it, but they need to be really fucking talented beyond belief or forget it.

I think it really has more to do with motivation. The people that usually get those "lesser" degrees aren't motivated. I don't think it sheds bad light on the degree itself as much as the unmotivated person getting the degree. Now of course I have no idea what types of job a theater major could get, but that's because I'm not in that department. I think if someone is passionate about what they do, strive to do it to the best of their abilities, then the job offers (and what's more important: the satisfaction of the job) will come.

The True Adonis

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2011, 11:57:12 AM »
It is even worse for law school grads! Big debts, a degree, and no job.   :'(

Is Law School a Losing Game?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?sq=law%20school&st=cse&scp=3&pagewanted=all

Unless you are 1) going to a top ten law school, 2) have someone who will pay your tuition or 3) have a father, uncle, etc, that is a partner in a firm and can literally guarantee you a well paying job upon graduation I would not recommend law school to young people today; the cost is enormous and the prospects are very bleak.  

Check out some of the blogs for recent law grads
http://shillingmesoftly.blogspot.com/
http://subprimejd.blogspot.com/
http://rosecoloredglassesjd.blogspot.com/
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/

Lawyers who didn`t need Law School at all to be a lawyer.  America`s best I`d say.


1. Patrick Henry (1736-1799), member of the Continental Congress, governor of Virginia
2. John Jay (1745-1829), first chief justice of the Supreme Court

3. John Marshall (1755-1835), chief justice of the Supreme Court

4. William Wirt (1772-1834), attorney general

5. Roger B. Taney (1777-1864), secretary of the treasury, chief justice of the Supreme Court

6. Daniel Webster (1782-1852), secretary of state

7. Salmon P. Chase (1808-1873), senator, chief justice of the Supreme Court

8. Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865), president

9. Stephen Douglas (1813-1861), representative, senator from Illinois

10. Clarence Darrow (1857-1938), defense attorney in Scopes trial of 1925. [While Clarence Darrow attended a law school for one year, he did not distinguish himself and preferred to study law on his own. He received the greater part of his education in a law office in Youngstown, Ohio.]

11. Robert Storey (b. 1893), president of the American Bar Association (1952-1953)

12. J. Strom Thurmond (b. 1902), senator, governor of South Carolina

13. James O. Eastland (b. 1904), senator from Mississippi

Mr. Magoo

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2011, 11:59:21 AM »
Didn't Andrew Jackson teach himself law too, while working at a law firm?

The True Adonis

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2011, 12:03:11 PM »
Didn't Andrew Jackson teach himself law too, while working at a law firm?
Yep,
Meant to add him on the list as well.  He was a lawyer in Salisbury, North Carolina. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2011, 12:04:11 PM »
How does someone know they are talented if they have never been given a chance to display or learn it?
Don't be fucking stupid.  If your kid comes home with cross-eyed drawings of something he copied out of a magazine and wants to get a degree in art, you should probably fucking talk them out of it.  If they have been coming home with work that blows your mind and everybody you show it to, then it might be ok.  If your kid grew up filming shit all over and making movies and everyone liked it then ok maybe give them a shot but that's going to be a very small portion of the population--safe bet is still against it.

What I'm saying is that the parent really needs to gauge the kids talent and help direct them from there.

Contrary to popular belief, it's actually way easier to become a lawyer, doctor, accountant, etc than it is to become a successful artist, musician or film maker; yet look at how many eagerly enter these fields every year, 99 percent of them doomed lol...

The True Adonis

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2011, 12:06:25 PM »
Don't be fucking stupid.  If your kid comes home with cross-eyed drawings of something he copied out of a magazine and wants to get a degree in art, you should probably fucking talk them out of it.  If they have been coming home with work that blows your mind and everybody you show it to, then it might be ok.  If your kid grew up filming shit all over and making movies and everyone liked it then ok maybe give them a shot but that's going to be a very small portion of the population--safe bet is still against it.

What I'm saying is that the parent really needs to gauge the kids talent and help direct them from there.

Contrary to popular belief, it's actually way easier to become a lawyer, doctor, accountant, etc than it is to become a successful artist, musician or film maker; yet look at how many eagerly enter these fields every year, 99 percent of them doomed lol...
Harrison Ford and Sean Connery and Arnold Schwarzenegger disagree with you.

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2011, 12:07:14 PM »



Hugo Chavez

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Re: American colleges: Education worth the price?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2011, 12:14:37 PM »
I don't actually agree with this. If someone wants to pursue something, more power to them. China's graduating 3 million engineers a year right now. Do you think there's anywhere near that many engineering jobs out there in China for those students? Not a fucking chance.
maybe I worded it wrong or didn't expand enough.  I just think the parents should guard against their kids going into areas they have no real talent for but might have gotten inspired toward unwittingly by some of the crap that comes in senior year.  Such as these art and film related degrees that I mentioned above.  Unless your kid kicks ass in that shit, they're probably going to fail their asses off and you're going to waste your money on it.