FORCED GROWING

[local hero]

you stated plenty times they arent strong and the strength comes from the drugs anyways

if you read up on any of this, the soviets and Chinese pick the strongest kids from a young age, the creme of the crop have state money spent on them developing them into great athletes

you name coan and henry.... so your telling me none of the olympic greats wouldnt have been as big in powerlifting if theyd dedicated there lives to it too?

[asbrus]

you stated plenty times they arent strong and the strength comes from the drugs anyways

if you read up on any of this, the soviets and Chinese pick the strongest kids from a young age, the creme of the crop have state money spent on them developing them into great athletes

you name coan and henry.... so your telling me none of the olympic greats wouldnt have been as big in powerlifting if theyd dedicated there lives to it too?

S0ME 0F THEM ARE N0T VERY STR0NG NATURALLY. S0ME ARE. F0R EXAMPLE, TARNENK0 THE WEIGHTLIFTER THAT STILL H0LDS THE REC0RD F0R CLEAN AND JERK BEF0RE THEY CHANGED THE WEIGHTS SAID THAT YURK VARDANYAN THE ARMENIAN LIFTER WAS WEAK WITH0UT THE DRUGS. I NEVER SAID THEY ARE ALL WEAK. I KN0W A C0UPLE 0F WEIGHTLIFTERS FR0M THE F0RMER USSR. THEY W0ULD TELL Y0U THE SAME EXACT THING I'M TELLING. STRENGTH IS 0NLY SEC0ND T0 TECHNIQUE AND IF Y0U HAVE PHENEM0NAL TECHNIQUE AND SPEED IN THE LIFT, THEN Y0U'LL BE A W0RLD CHAMP. REGARDLESS IF THEY PICK THE KIDS, THE CHINESE AND ASIANS ARE PHYSICALLY WEAKER THAN EUR0PEANS IN BRUTE STRENGTH. I'M SURE A L0T 0F THEM W0ULD BE GREAT IN P0WERLIFTING, BUT THAT D0SEN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT IN 0LYMPIC WEIGHTLIFTING TECHNIQUE AND SPEED IS FIRST AND STRENGTH IS SEC0ND. ALS0, WHEN THEY PICKED THE KIDS, STRENGTH WAS N0T THE IMP0RTANT FACT0R THEY L00KED AT. THEY L00KED T0 SEE WHETHER THEY CAN PERF0RM THE LIFT WELL AND IF THEY HAD A NATURAL TALENT F0R THE EXECUTI0N 0F THE LIFTS.

[jpm101]

Olympic lifting is one of the fastest sports in the world. Need to be athletic by nature, with quickness, timing and genetic gifted power.  Developing the technical form/style , quickness and timing for lifting directs the raw power to useable improved strength. Might mention overwhelming confidence when flipping up or jerking & holding, above the head ,400 to 500 lbs.

Though Power Lifting can be somewhat related to Olympic lifting, PL'ing requires a very short range of motion compared to Olympic lifting. Even PL'ing squats are being allowed to just a bit below the mid range breaks. For pure athletic abilities, strength, quickness and courage Olympic lifting will have an overwhelming advantage over PL'ing. (speed and quickness are not the same in lifting or any thing else)

The old Soviet block (maybe now even) would select both boys & girls (as young as 6) to be tested for certain sports like soccer , track & field, lifting, basketball, etc. Besides body bio-mechanics (regarding athletic abilities) they would be measured for bone length/thickness, muscle/ligament displacement, etc. All to fine the best sports potential for each kid. China is way into this for quite a number of years also. Those kids who were exceptional would attend special sports schools for education and training.  No matter which county, mental and emotional exams are included along with their sports training.

Perhaps not so much talent (though basic talent is very important) but a good bet that future potential ,through science and intense training, can be fulfilled. We do this stuff here in America, on a  smaller scale . looking for future football, basketball, etc players. Stating , usually, from middle school and up.  Of course we do have special sports high schools (in the US) but will never admit it. Good Luck.

[Yev33]

I see what asbrus is trying to say and he is right to a certain degree. For example if you clean and jerk 400lbs, it wouldn't make much sense for you to use a lot more than that on squats. Since all you would be doing is overtaxing your recovery without gaining much benefit for your competition lifts. So while you may see someone do front squats with 405 on the bar for 10, if they have no clue and previous expirience with Oly lifting they will get pinned to the floor with less than 3 plates. And as a side note, I cringe everytime someone brings up an Olympic weightlifting routine and schedule and tries to apply it to bodybuilding or powerlifting. You can practice the olympic lifts more than four times a week with heavy weights in relation to your 1rm, try doing that with the deadlift. Olympic lifts are fast and explosive with virtually no eccentric with the heaviest of weights, there are no grinding reps.

[#1 Klaus fan]

only difference between training for strength and size is rep range..   

strength focus on low reps while incorporating moderate to higher reps..

size focus on moderate reps while incorporating low reps and high reps..

I think training for size or strength is the same thing. Only thing difference is that if you want to be as strong as possible, you have to incorporate heavy weights for a few months before maxing.

[#1 Klaus fan]

I'm kind of doing something like this regularly.   It might sound extreme, but I'm a natural trainer and it works well for me. It's a lot effort but hey, nothing's easy right? For example, during the last 6 days I have worked my biceps about 6 or 7? times, I'm not sure exactly, but the volume I have done per arm within these 6 days is 7.2 metric tons.   I just won't have any results if there isn't a shit loads of volume involved. My training is very unusual in lots of ways but lets not go there.

To add: with volume and frequence, first thing you notice is how your work capacity increases, not so much your strength or muscle mass. It takes a while to use that work capacity to further push your body and get those strength and muscle mass benefits.

[#1 Klaus fan]

About weightlifting: in weightlifting, strength absolutely rules! There have been olympic champions with mediocre technique, but not a single weak one! And oh yes, they are the strongest people on the planet.

[asbrus]

About weightlifting: in weightlifting, strength absolutely rules! There have been olympic champions with mediocre technique, but not a single weak one! And oh yes, they are the strongest people on the planet.

S0 THE CHINESE ARE THE 0NE 0F THE STR0NGEST PE0PLE 0N THE PLANET? THE CLEAN AND JERK AND SNATCH ARE N0T ABS0LUTE STRENGTH LIFTS. STRENGTH IS A PART 0F THE LIFT BUT IT'S N0T EVERYTHING.

[#1 Klaus fan]

S0 THE CHINESE ARE THE 0NE 0F THE STR0NGEST PE0PLE 0N THE PLANET? THE CLEAN AND JERK AND SNATCH ARE N0T ABS0LUTE STRENGTH LIFTS. STRENGTH IS A PART 0F THE LIFT BUT IT'S N0T EVERYTHING.

You have something against Chinese? They are very good at lower weightclasses, sometimes even dominating, but they have never had good super heavyweight lifters. The weights, while not as heavy as in a deadlift or even bench press, are heavy enough that absolute strength is the determining factor. Why do pro shot putters, who push a 16 pound shot around, bench press near 300 kilos? Strength rules even with those loads, now we are talking hundreds of kilos of external load.

[jon cole]

Was watching weighlifting on euro-sport last week, mid-weight categorie, all guy have huge and solid quads, hams and glutes, also massive back, especially erector, traps, incredible thickness and density, 3 dimension back and quads,

So just let them train chest, arm, shoulder and they'll smoke average bber easily.

Average bber lack of mass and density for their bodyweight, because they spent to many time on sissy exercises; leg press, leg ext etc won't give you quads like weighlifter BECAUSE NOTHING hurt quads like front squat or oly squat.
front squat ass to the bottom is the best exercise for quads.

when you see what kind of legs and back weightlifer can build with weighlifiting range of rep and exercise that must be a lesson to all bber.
 

[asbrus]

You have something against Chinese? They are very good at lower weightclasses, sometimes even dominating, but they have never had good super heavyweight lifters. The weights, while not as heavy as in a deadlift or even bench press, are heavy enough that absolute strength is the determining factor. Why do pro shot putters, who push a 16 pound shot around, bench press near 300 kilos? Strength rules even with those loads, now we are talking hundreds of kilos of external load.

EVERY0NE KEEPS SAYING THAT CHINESE D0MINATE THE L0WER WEIGHT CLASSES 0NLY. THIS ISN'T TRUE AS THEY START T0 WIN MEDALS IN THE UPPER WEIGHT CLASSES T00. EVEN S0, A CHINESE LIGHTWEIGHT IS NEVER NATURALLY STR0NGER THAN A EUR0PEAN. THE CHINESE HAVE W0N AS A TEAM F0R THE LAST 10 YEARS. S0 G0ING BY Y0UR L0GIC CHINA MEN ARE THE STR0NGEST BEINGS 0N EARTH. D0 Y0U EVEN UNDERSTAND H0W THE LIFTS ARE D0NE? THE CLEAN AND JERK AND SNATCH REQUIRES AMAZING SPEED AND TECHNIQUE T0 GET THE LIFT UP. THIS IS WHY Y0U SEE AN 13 YEAR 0LD S0METIMES PICK UP 225 LBS 0VER HER HEAD. THIS ISN'T ABS0LUTE STRENGTH. IT'S M0RE EXPL0SIVE P0WER AND SPEED WITH PR0PER TECHNIQUE AND FLEXIBILITY.

[local hero]

i still dont get your beef with the chinkies,,,, why cant they be as strong as europeans? indians and iranians arent known as being a strong race but they have churned out a few good lifters in the past.

regarding the other post about weightlifters training chest n arms and bodybuilding, your probly right, but as i said, they are an elite genetically, somthing asbus just cant seem to get into his thick head

[#1 Klaus fan]

EVERY0NE KEEPS SAYING THAT CHINESE D0MINATE THE L0WER WEIGHT CLASSES 0NLY. THIS ISN'T TRUE AS THEY START T0 WIN MEDALS IN THE UPPER WEIGHT CLASSES T00. EVEN S0, A CHINESE LIGHTWEIGHT IS NEVER NATURALLY STR0NGER THAN A EUR0PEAN. THE CHINESE HAVE W0N AS A TEAM F0R THE LAST 10 YEARS. S0 G0ING BY Y0UR L0GIC CHINA MEN ARE THE STR0NGEST BEINGS 0N EARTH. D0 Y0U EVEN UNDERSTAND H0W THE LIFTS ARE D0NE? THE CLEAN AND JERK AND SNATCH REQUIRES AMAZING SPEED AND TECHNIQUE T0 GET THE LIFT UP. THIS IS WHY Y0U SEE AN 13 YEAR 0LD S0METIMES PICK UP 225 LBS 0VER HER HEAD. THIS ISN'T ABS0LUTE STRENGTH. IT'S M0RE EXPL0SIVE P0WER AND SPEED WITH PR0PER TECHNIQUE AND FLEXIBILITY.

This is kind of funny because I HAVE done the lifts (am I the only one here?), I was pretty good at them when I did them (now just getting stronger, will get back to the lifts sometime in the near future). YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW TOUGH EVEN A 100 KG CLEAN AND JERK CAN BE, STRENGTH WISE, BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT! YOU HAVE NO IDEA, SO SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

[asbrus]

This is kind of funny because I HAVE done the lifts (am I the only one here?), I was pretty good at them when I did them (now just getting stronger, will get back to the lifts sometime in the near future). YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW TOUGH EVEN A 100 KG CLEAN AND JERK CAN BE, STRENGTH WISE, BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT! YOU HAVE NO IDEA, SO SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

ARE Y0U G0ING T0 CRY N0W LITTLE GIRL? L0L THERE ARE 15 YEAR 0LD KIDS LIFTING THAT MUCH WEIGHT WH0 ARE INT0 0LYMPIC WEIGHTLIFTING IN S0ME C0UNTRIES. I CAN PRESS 185 LBS F0R REPS. IF I TRAINED F0R IT 220 W0ULD BE CAKEWALK F0R ME. I'M N0T AN 0LYMPIC WEIGHTLIFTER BUT I KN0W IF Y0U T0LD A C0ACH 0R A T0P ATHLETE WHAT Y0U T0LD ME THEY'D LAUGH AT Y0U. T0 LIFT 400 BLS 0VER Y0UR HEAD REQUIRES AN INSANE AM0UNT 0F SPEED AND TECHNICAL ABILITY AND N0T JUST STRENGTH. I D0N'T CARE IF Y0U'VE D0NE THE LIFTS. THE IDEA THAT Y0U'RE A GR0WN MAN AND HAVING TR0UBLE LIFTING 100 KG IS N0T A STRENGTH ISSUE. Y0UR T00 SL0W AND Y0UR TECHNIQUE SUCKS. THIS IS WHY Y0U CAN'T CLEAN AND JERK THAT WEIGHT. THERE ARE GIRLS THAT ARE INT0 WEIGHTLIFTING WTH 13 INCH ARMS AND TINY DELTS LIFTING THAT MUCH.

[#1 Klaus fan]

I knew it.

[asbrus]

I knew it.

BRB CLEAN AND JERKING 100 KGS WITH0UT SPEED AND H0RRIBLE TECHNIQUE AND JUST USING BRUTE STRENGTH LIKE Y0U SAY. N0 W0NDER Y0U CAN'T JERK IT. WHY AM I EVEN ARGUING WITH Y0U? IT'S CLEAR Y0U D0N'T UNDERSTAND THE SP0RT AND H0W  THE LIFTS ARE D0NE EVIDENT BY Y0UR C0MMENT THAT WEIGHTLIFTING IS ALL STRENGTH. T00 FUNNY.

[#1 Klaus fan]

Keep talking, maybe some fool will listen to you. Master of weightlifting. 

[local hero]

ARE Y0U G0ING T0 CRY N0W LITTLE GIRL? L0L THERE ARE 15 YEAR 0LD KIDS LIFTING THAT MUCH WEIGHT WH0 ARE INT0 0LYMPIC WEIGHTLIFTING IN S0ME [s]C0UNTRIES.[/

yeh, and those 15yr olds are the same cream of the genetic pool that i was talking about...

kind of like how you have great genes for typing rubbish in CAPS