Author Topic: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above  (Read 1283 times)


Soul Crusher

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 01:42:46 AM »
Oh lord.  How about theft from the taxpayer to keep funding dem pols who advocate more spending? 

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2011, 07:23:15 AM »
Oh lord.  How about theft from the taxpayer to keep funding dem pols who advocate more spending? 

Exactly, and who is making money from "union busting"? The article fails to differentiate between public sector and private sector unions. The so called elite that are going to feel the pain from this are the top union bosses, the guy that makes 480K a year. Now you tell me who is screwing the "working man".
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George Whorewell

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2011, 08:39:39 AM »
MB do you really believe any of that garbage?

You seemed like a smarter guy than that.

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2011, 09:11:26 PM »
MB do you really believe any of that garbage?

You seemed like a smarter guy than that.

not all of it.  I still think they should be able to unionize in some capacity.

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2011, 06:19:50 AM »
Why should govt workers be able to unionize when the taxpayer is not the one at the table making the deal? 

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 06:20:18 AM »
Why should govt workers be able to unionize when the taxpayer is not the one at the table making the deal? 

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 07:43:05 AM »
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Thugs, Lies and Labor Unions - Why does Obama Send His Kids to a Non-Union Private School?
vanity | 3/4/2011 | Vanity


Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 10:14:39 AM by Titus-Maximus

Do you know why President Obama sends his kids to a non-union private school, because the public schools in DC suck! So can he please stop his hypocritical lecturing of Governor Walker? Obama doesn’t believe in teachers’ unions or else he would have them teaching his kids, which he refuses to do.

Teachers’ unions create a monopoly which is in total contradiction to a teacher’s essence and that is his own individuality as a professional. Collective Bargaining allows them to sell their services as one complete monopolistic force....which is akin to every airline banding together and selling their travel services in complete collusion. As it would be with every grocery store owner acting in concert to set food prices as high as possible, (don’t they deserve a fair wage as well). This monopolistic action had been historically cited as a violation of anti-trust - as unions were found guilty - even FDR opposed them in the government workplace. In classical economic theory monopoly brings about a degradation in service and a raising of prices - and that is what we have been getting year in and year out from our education establishment. Unions protect and foster mediocrity and that is an undying truth. A union monopoly of education is the absolutely last thing this nation needs or wants – it is a complete recipe for disaster and why America ranks near the bottom internationally in education. Private, non-union schools do a much better job – ask President Obama who enthusiastically sends his kids to one – but he hypocritically barred inner city DC children the same privilege by canceling their voucher program!

The unionists claim this is about civil rights – yet they deny the right of any teacher to opt out of the union, they deny the right to work for any teacher that refuses to pay union dues - which is a violation of that individual’s civil rights. So will they please stop their boring, hypocritical lectures about ‘taking away peoples’ rights’. The last thing a labor union is about is freedom, they want total control and to take free choice away from people. It is one of the reasons they want card check – and their desire to attack the ‘right-to-work’ southern states, whose workers are content without unions coming in and ruining their industry!

Why do we need a 1930's style industrial union to represent teachers? Since when does a labor union actually contribute to the intellectual development of a human being? These teachers are not shoveling coal or bolting on fenders where there is a high degree of worker fungibility - teaching is an individual art, like writing or playing music, with a dizzying variation of ability from person to person. Since when is one teacher as good as another? Since when is one surgeon as good as another? Is one lawyer as good as another? Is one chef as good as another? Is one musician as good as another? Is one football coach as good as another? None of that is true - so the unionists’ absurd premise of teacher fungibility as a bedrock requirement for their tenure protection and collective bargaining is a complete lie. Some teachers are far better than others - but don't ask the union system to recognize it because their system destroys innovation, destroys accountability and leaves us only with seniority - leaving our children’s fate to those who have been there the longest. Economic life's rules don't work that way – the efficient allocation of society’s resources is diminished when a manager must abide by the inadequate criteria of simple teacher seniority; the unions are compelling a suboptimal outcome, we are left with no other choice except inferiority. Why do many Wisconsin public school teachers send their kids to non-union private schools? Answer – because the public schools suck, again, just ask President Obama.

The notion of government workers needing a labor union is absurd on its face. The government is not geared towards making a profit, there is no natural adversarial relationship between workers and management – in fact government itself is the monitor and administrator of all employee protection laws that are in effect. Why should government be forced to exist under the threat of a labor union? What have they done in the past to warrant this aggressive action? Are teachers as workers losing limbs, inhaling coal dust or being paid in script? Are they being forced to buy their own pens and paper? Government jobs pay on average better than private sector jobs, and have better benefits with much lower turnover – all things that suggest a labor union is not even necessary, and they are not! This entire government labor movement is a contrivance – created for the benefit of unions themselves and the Democratic Party. President Kennedy by executive order allowed federal employees to unionize – and did this only to garner their votes in the 1964 election. This is ugly cynical politics gussied up in the transparent disguise of “workers’ civil rights” and that is a complete sham. These government unions serve to collect union dues which is funneled to the Democratic Party and create dependent voting blocs of unionized workers who now vote for the Democrats who in turn reward them with higher wages and benefits superior to the private sector – a vicious cycle. Obama needs this union money to win in 2012, he needs these automatic foot soldiers in his campaign, he needs the false accusation of his opponents as the ‘greedy rich’ and that is why he cynically supports unions while hypocritically sending his children to a non-union private school.

How would any private sector employee behave when they have been granted their job for life and it is near impossible for management to fire them? Do you think that situation is a motivation to improve, to innovate and to find better and more creative ways to teach? Absolutely not! It produces a nasty thugish attitude and creates surreal situations like the obscene New York City “rubber room” - full of undisciplined, suspended teachers, getting paid to sit around for months and play cards all day because they cannot be fired – at the cost of millions of dollars. This is the waste that unions bring, at the expense of every kid in the system, and the unions could care less as long as they get theirs.

Why do unions hate testing and teacher evaluations? Why do they resist with every last drop of blood, the ability of administrators to make them account for their productivity? Why do unions seek layoffs of their members rather than all sharing financial pain – because those layoffs are then then used as a political attack – and they could care less as the children suffer.

Why are they dead set against vouchers? Or the funding of private or charter schools? Why are they against testing? They are against every possible measure that proves inadequate teaching. Education in America has gone down in direct inverse proportion to union power rising. The inner city schools are terrible and have been under Democratic rule for decades and not an iota of improvement.

Governor Jon Corzine of NJ who was in bed with the unions, literally and figuratively, had given a speech to the state unionized workers and absurdly screamed ‘I will fight to get you a good contract!’ but it begs the question – who is he fighting? The Man? The taxpayer? The Republicans? Who does represent the taxpayer in the situation with a Democratic governor and a runaway teachers’ union? Corzine couldn’t care less – he raised taxes as labor commanded him to do so – as they now say is the solution in Wisconsin and every other state facing deficits. They say the pain should be shared – yet they have shared none of it and are in a far superior position than private sector employees. Take from someone else is their mantra, into the greedy mouth of their monopoly which, like clockwork, raises prices each year and reduces service. Having a government union that gives huge amounts of funding through mandatory dues directly to the Democratic Party that in turn grants that union huge increases in pay and benefits - creates an enormous and ugly conflict of interest and the nation is finally waking up and rejecting it. Someone needs to represent the taxpayer.

People have done far greater things with far less money in storefront schools, charter schools, Catholic schools and home schooling - all without an extortionist union to ratchet up costs while reducing productivity. (The Democratic Party has done everything in its power to stop vouchers and charter schools as well as their successful attempt to defund Catholic schools - because these outlets eventually disembowel their teachers' union and their money train.) It is time to rip down this expensive and wasteful union monopoly that has done nothing to increase the intellectual development of our students. Fifty years of failure is enough. Let us boldly discard the wasteful and unproductive ways of the past and finally do something ‘for the kids’ in reality and not just as an idle boast. Look where Obama sends his kids and take a lesson from that!


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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 07:48:21 AM »
Great article.   Screw these leeches.

________________________ _________________-



Why Collective Bargaining Is Bad
Townhall.com ^ | March 4, 2011 | Howard Rich





By A decade ago, when our national debt stood at a “mere” $5.6 trillion, the federal government was already dramatically overpaying its employees to perform all sorts of non-core functions.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, compensation for the average federal position in 2000 exceeded compensation for the average private sector job by $30,415 – a sizable gap that has since exploded to $61,998. Now the average federal employee’s compensation totals $123,409 – or more than twice the average private sector salary.

Federal workers have seen their total compensation soar by 36.9 percent since 2000 – after adjusting for inflation. By comparison, private sector compensation has increased by only 8.8 percent.

Also, in spite of a recession that saw the loss of 8 million private sector jobs there are more federal employees working today – 2.15 million – than ever before.

In addition to generous salaries, health care coverage and inflation-protected pensions, public sector employees also receive more vacation time, holidays and sick days than their private sector counterparts.

Needless to say, federal workers have secured much of this largesse thanks to collective bargaining. The same can be said of public school teachers in Milwaukee, Wisconsin – where the average compensation package was recently valued at $100,005.

But public sector collective bargaining isn’t your typical collective bargaining. In fact, it represents an unnatural perversion of a failed private sector experiment – an unfair tactic that continues to be exploited to the detriment of taxpayers. In fact, only now that a line has been drawn in the sand in Wisconsin (one of dozens of states struggling to balance its budget due to the stranglehold of public sector unions) do we see the true cost to taxpayers coming into focus.

In the private sector, collective bargaining is ostensibly driven by market forces. Both workers and managers rely on profits, and so negotiations are (in theory, anyway) conducted with the goal of creating a larger pie for everyone to share. Obviously this hasn’t been the objective of union bosses, which is why the free market has largely weeded their unions out of the economy.

Currently only 7.2 percent of America’s private sector workforce is unionized – down from a World War II-era peak of 33.9 percent. This trend is reversed in the public sector, however, where unions now comprise 36.8 percent of the workforce – up from 9.8 percent in the 1940s.

Why this dichotomy? One reason is that collective bargaining in the public sector is a self-perpetuating process – one that is rigged to continue funneling benefits to workers regardless of whether those benefits are deserved (or whether the work being performed by these employees is even necessary).

For example, not only is government in charge of regulating its interaction with the private sector but unlike the private sector, it is funded by a compulsory revenue stream. And with no balanced budget requirement at the federal level, politicians act as if there is a limitless supply of tax dollars with which to continue feeding union demands. Meanwhile state governments continue to be bailed out by the federal government’s borrowed billions – dumping disproportionate percentages of this money into generous employee salaries and benefits while complaining when core services go unfunded.

Also the structure of collective bargaining in the public sector is fundamentally out-of-balance – which invariably results in unions being represented on both sides of the negotiating table. Not only are union demands voiced by their immediate representatives, they are echoed by numerous bought and paid for politicians (who are supposed to be negotiating on behalf of the taxpayers). Even politicians who are not in the pocket of unions are subject to the political pressure this uniquely powerful special interest can apply.

Obviously the money extracted during this perverse “bargaining” process must come from somewhere – a reality that even supporters of big government are beginning to acknowledge.

“Collective bargaining in the public sector serves to reduce benefits for citizens and to raise costs for taxpayers,” writes David C. Crane, a Democrat who serves on the California Board of Regents.

That is the true war being fought in Wisconsin – and make no mistake that its outcome will go a long way in determining whether government at all levels rids itself of this menace or becomes even more hopelessly enslaved to its demands.


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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 07:54:46 AM »
VIA FREEREPUBLIC




Thugs, Lies and Labor Unions - Why does Obama Send His Kids to a Non-Union Private School?
vanity | 3/4/2011 | Vanity


Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 10:14:39 AM by Titus-Maximus

Do you know why President Obama sends his kids to a non-union private school, because the public schools in DC suck! So can he please stop his hypocritical lecturing of Governor Walker? Obama doesn’t believe in teachers’ unions or else he would have them teaching his kids, which he refuses to do.

Teachers’ unions create a monopoly which is in total contradiction to a teacher’s essence and that is his own individuality as a professional. Collective Bargaining allows them to sell their services as one complete monopolistic force....which is akin to every airline banding together and selling their travel services in complete collusion. As it would be with every grocery store owner acting in concert to set food prices as high as possible, (don’t they deserve a fair wage as well). This monopolistic action had been historically cited as a violation of anti-trust - as unions were found guilty - even FDR opposed them in the government workplace. In classical economic theory monopoly brings about a degradation in service and a raising of prices - and that is what we have been getting year in and year out from our education establishment. Unions protect and foster mediocrity and that is an undying truth. A union monopoly of education is the absolutely last thing this nation needs or wants – it is a complete recipe for disaster and why America ranks near the bottom internationally in education. Private, non-union schools do a much better job – ask President Obama who enthusiastically sends his kids to one – but he hypocritically barred inner city DC children the same privilege by canceling their voucher program!

The unionists claim this is about civil rights – yet they deny the right of any teacher to opt out of the union, they deny the right to work for any teacher that refuses to pay union dues - which is a violation of that individual’s civil rights. So will they please stop their boring, hypocritical lectures about ‘taking away peoples’ rights’. The last thing a labor union is about is freedom, they want total control and to take free choice away from people. It is one of the reasons they want card check – and their desire to attack the ‘right-to-work’ southern states, whose workers are content without unions coming in and ruining their industry!

Why do we need a 1930's style industrial union to represent teachers? Since when does a labor union actually contribute to the intellectual development of a human being? These teachers are not shoveling coal or bolting on fenders where there is a high degree of worker fungibility - teaching is an individual art, like writing or playing music, with a dizzying variation of ability from person to person. Since when is one teacher as good as another? Since when is one surgeon as good as another? Is one lawyer as good as another? Is one chef as good as another? Is one musician as good as another? Is one football coach as good as another? None of that is true - so the unionists’ absurd premise of teacher fungibility as a bedrock requirement for their tenure protection and collective bargaining is a complete lie. Some teachers are far better than others - but don't ask the union system to recognize it because their system destroys innovation, destroys accountability and leaves us only with seniority - leaving our children’s fate to those who have been there the longest. Economic life's rules don't work that way – the efficient allocation of society’s resources is diminished when a manager must abide by the inadequate criteria of simple teacher seniority; the unions are compelling a suboptimal outcome, we are left with no other choice except inferiority. Why do many Wisconsin public school teachers send their kids to non-union private schools? Answer – because the public schools suck, again, just ask President Obama.

The notion of government workers needing a labor union is absurd on its face. The government is not geared towards making a profit, there is no natural adversarial relationship between workers and management – in fact government itself is the monitor and administrator of all employee protection laws that are in effect. Why should government be forced to exist under the threat of a labor union? What have they done in the past to warrant this aggressive action? Are teachers as workers losing limbs, inhaling coal dust or being paid in script? Are they being forced to buy their own pens and paper? Government jobs pay on average better than private sector jobs, and have better benefits with much lower turnover – all things that suggest a labor union is not even necessary, and they are not! This entire government labor movement is a contrivance – created for the benefit of unions themselves and the Democratic Party. President Kennedy by executive order allowed federal employees to unionize – and did this only to garner their votes in the 1964 election. This is ugly cynical politics gussied up in the transparent disguise of “workers’ civil rights” and that is a complete sham. These government unions serve to collect union dues which is funneled to the Democratic Party and create dependent voting blocs of unionized workers who now vote for the Democrats who in turn reward them with higher wages and benefits superior to the private sector – a vicious cycle. Obama needs this union money to win in 2012, he needs these automatic foot soldiers in his campaign, he needs the false accusation of his opponents as the ‘greedy rich’ and that is why he cynically supports unions while hypocritically sending his children to a non-union private school.

How would any private sector employee behave when they have been granted their job for life and it is near impossible for management to fire them? Do you think that situation is a motivation to improve, to innovate and to find better and more creative ways to teach? Absolutely not! It produces a nasty thugish attitude and creates surreal situations like the obscene New York City “rubber room” - full of undisciplined, suspended teachers, getting paid to sit around for months and play cards all day because they cannot be fired – at the cost of millions of dollars. This is the waste that unions bring, at the expense of every kid in the system, and the unions could care less as long as they get theirs.

Why do unions hate testing and teacher evaluations? Why do they resist with every last drop of blood, the ability of administrators to make them account for their productivity? Why do unions seek layoffs of their members rather than all sharing financial pain – because those layoffs are then then used as a political attack – and they could care less as the children suffer.

Why are they dead set against vouchers? Or the funding of private or charter schools? Why are they against testing? They are against every possible measure that proves inadequate teaching. Education in America has gone down in direct inverse proportion to union power rising. The inner city schools are terrible and have been under Democratic rule for decades and not an iota of improvement.

Governor Jon Corzine of NJ who was in bed with the unions, literally and figuratively, had given a speech to the state unionized workers and absurdly screamed ‘I will fight to get you a good contract!’ but it begs the question – who is he fighting? The Man? The taxpayer? The Republicans? Who does represent the taxpayer in the situation with a Democratic governor and a runaway teachers’ union? Corzine couldn’t care less – he raised taxes as labor commanded him to do so – as they now say is the solution in Wisconsin and every other state facing deficits. They say the pain should be shared – yet they have shared none of it and are in a far superior position than private sector employees. Take from someone else is their mantra, into the greedy mouth of their monopoly which, like clockwork, raises prices each year and reduces service. Having a government union that gives huge amounts of funding through mandatory dues directly to the Democratic Party that in turn grants that union huge increases in pay and benefits - creates an enormous and ugly conflict of interest and the nation is finally waking up and rejecting it. Someone needs to represent the taxpayer.

People have done far greater things with far less money in storefront schools, charter schools, Catholic schools and home schooling - all without an extortionist union to ratchet up costs while reducing productivity. (The Democratic Party has done everything in its power to stop vouchers and charter schools as well as their successful attempt to defund Catholic schools - because these outlets eventually disembowel their teachers' union and their money train.) It is time to rip down this expensive and wasteful union monopoly that has done nothing to increase the intellectual development of our students. Fifty years of failure is enough. Let us boldly discard the wasteful and unproductive ways of the past and finally do something ‘for the kids’ in reality and not just as an idle boast. Look where Obama sends his kids and take a lesson from that!



This article claims that Catholic schools have been successfully de-funded. I wasn't aware of that. But, what of Protestant Christian schools?

Speaking of which, I'll put up a thread about a controversial ruling involving schooling, which should make many folks (especially parents) concerned.

Primemuscle

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 11:32:28 PM »
Do you know why President Obama sends his kids to a non-union private school, because the public schools in DC suck! So can he please stop his hypocritical lecturing of Governor Walker? Obama doesn’t believe in teachers’ unions or else he would have them teaching his kids, which he refuses to do.

If the public schools suck it is because they are underfunded. Public schools are required by law to provide an education to every student regardless of any special needs the student may have. Private school charge in the neighborhood of $10,000+ a year to educate select students (those without special needs) while in most states public schools receive less than half that amount Private schools often require parent participation as a condition of enrollment. Public schools do not have this option.

So here is how it works, in the public school setting little Sally a second grader loses it and throws a tantrum tipping over her desk, thowing things at other students, and kicking and biting the teacher. The principal comes down and takes her to the office where she continues her tantrum. The school secretary is asked to watch her while she tries reach her mother or father like has happened the last twenty times this year without success. Later that day the Principal finally contacts Sally's mom who simply says, "I don't have time to come in, you take care of this." So the principal says he's going to have put Sally on suspension. The mom says, you will not! I want her in the classroom. Back to the classroom she goes.

Private school: little Johnny has a bad day, he acts out and slams his books down on the floor, refusing to do his assignment. Teacher calls parent and tells them that Johnny is having problem and needs to go home. Parent comes to school and takes Johnny home scolding him. Should Johnny act out a few too many times, he becomes student persona non grata and mom has to enroll him in public school.

Think I am making this up? I'm retired after thirty years in public education. Been there done that many more times than I can count. My kids went to Catholic school, when they messed up we got to pick them up, take them home and make sure when they went back to school they behaved.

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2011, 03:42:05 AM »
Oh freaking please.  What nonsense. Public schools sucki way tooi many tax dollars as it is.

Primemuscle

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2011, 02:13:10 PM »
Oh freaking please.  What nonsense. Public schools sucki way tooi many tax dollars as it is.

Put your kids in private school then. Everyone wants government services yet a lot of folks don't seem to think they should have to pay for them. Fine, don't use any government services. Don't collect Social Security. Buy private medical insurance, don't use Medicare.

How are you qualified to determine how much money public schools should receive? Are you in education? Are you a financial analyst? What?

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2011, 02:27:20 PM »
Put your kids in private school then. Everyone wants government services yet a lot of folks don't seem to think they should have to pay for them. Fine, don't use any government services. Don't collect Social Security. Buy private medical insurance, don't use Medicare.

How are you qualified to determine how much money public schools should receive? Are you in education? Are you a financial analyst? What?
LOL and they are called liberals...

you know 50% of this country doesnt pay into federal income tax?

I think if the top 50% that do started opting out of the govt services like you suggest you and your former ilk would have been up shit creek without your tax payer funded paddles.

this has nothing to do with unions...unions are an old antiquated way of doing business. They were meant to level the playing field but these days lead to unfair advantages for the unions.

They are not needed now

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2011, 02:51:52 PM »
Put your kids in private school then. Everyone wants government services yet a lot of folks don't seem to think they should have to pay for them. Fine, don't use any government services. Don't collect Social Security. Buy private medical insurance, don't use Medicare.

How are you qualified to determine how much money public schools should receive? Are you in education? Are you a financial analyst? What?

So you have no problem with the fact that American kids have a piss poor ranking, yet you think the teachers, the ones tasked with teaching deserve all kinds of special consideration. Tell you what as soon as the kids rank higher then teachers have every right to ask for more, until that time.......

Government services? Strange when I look at my paycheck I see all kinds of deductions that pay for all these "government services". Sure I won't use any "government services" when the government stops collecting money and refunds all I have already paid in.
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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2011, 10:18:29 PM »
LOL and they are called liberals...

you know 50% of this country doesnt pay into federal income tax?

I think if the top 50% that do started opting out of the govt services like you suggest you and your former ilk would have been up shit creek without your tax payer funded paddles.

No, I previously worked in the private sector for twenty years. Made OK money too. I chose to work for a school district. If that job disappeared, I had other options and would have been fine. Thank you for your concern though.

I assume you aren't among the 50% who do not pay Federal income tax then? Neither am I. Many major corporations in Oregon pay the Oregon minimum corporate tax of $10 including PGE.

this has nothing to do with unions...unions are an old antiquated way of doing business. They were meant to level the playing field but these days lead to unfair advantages for the unions.

They are not needed now 

Tell me this after you've sat at the bargaining table trying to get the District Superintendent (who makes $150,000 a year) to agree to pay more than minimum wage to the part-time two hour cooks who feed the students. Why do administrators and certified staff get better medical benefits than do classified employees? Is it because unions aren't needed to help even the playing field? If it were up to some school administrators classified staff wouldn't be represented by unions at all. Why do you think that is the case?
[/quote]

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2011, 06:31:09 AM »
No, I previously worked in the private sector for twenty years. Made OK money too. I chose to work for a school district. If that job disappeared, I had other options and would have been fine. Thank you for your concern though.

I assume you aren't among the 50% who do not pay Federal income tax then? Neither am I. Many major corporations in Oregon pay the Oregon minimum corporate tax of $10 including PGE.
good to know

and yes i am among the 50% that pay federal income tax

LOL at the corporations dig...how much do the ppl they employee pay in federal income tax?

you libs have the wierdest logic...so even though those corporations employee thousands of ppl and those thousands pay federal income tax you feel that they are evil and contribute little to nothing?

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2011, 03:50:30 PM »
Tony stop using logic. It destroys liberalism.

- Like Radical Islamists, liberals are scared to death of freedom. Giving Americans the option of opting out would destroy the entire leftist government criminal conspiracy. That is exactly why the individual mandate in Osamacare is part and parcel of its funding. It's also why libs want the fairness doctrine back.

Given the choice, nobody except braindead leeches and delusional liberals would subscribe to anything in the democratic party's agenda.

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2011, 11:42:36 PM »
how much do the ppl they employee pay in federal income tax?

you libs have the wierdest logic...so even though those corporations employee thousands of ppl and those thousands pay federal income tax you feel that they are evil and contribute little to nothing?

Our government both federal and state employs millions of people (otherwise known as public employees) who are working class people like many of the private sector folks you speak of....they pay income tax just the same as any other person who isn't hiding their profits in tax shelters does.

For your information, corporate taxes are based on profits. Why then should a very profitable company like Portland General Electric, Nike or Intel not pay their corporate fair share in taxes? ....oh could it be because their unrestricted campaign money got some of the now beholding legislators elected?

You can have a government "of the people" or it would seem you prefer a government of the corporations. BTW, who do you think got Governor Scott Walker elected? Read this about the Koch brothers who are a couple of trust fund babies, who probably never worked a day in their life:

Charles and David Koch are conservative titans of industry who have infamously used their vast wealth to undermine President Obama and fight legislation they detest, such as the cap-and-trade climate bill, the health care reform act, and the economic stimulus package. For years, the billionaires have made extensive political donations to Republican candidates across the country and have provided millions of dollars to astroturf right-wing organizations. Koch Industries' political action committee has doled out more than $2.6 million to candidates. And one prominent beneficiary of the Koch brothers' largess is Scott Walker.

Primemuscle

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2011, 12:16:13 AM »
Why should govt workers be able to unionize when the taxpayer is not the one at the table making the deal? 

What makes you think taxpayers aren't at the table making the deal? Who do you think is making the deal?  It is called collective bargaining. It is not like unions can go to government leadership and demand this or that on behalf of public employees. in fact, many public employees do not have the ability, by law to strike should they not reach agreement. Are you aware of that?

Before I retired from public education, as a union leader, I sat across the table many times from administration who represented the elected School Board and bargained for classified employee wages, working conditions and benefits. I presume we all paid taxes no matter which side of the table we were on. It isn't some magical them verses us situation. Public employees aren't the enemy or the problem.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2011, 01:40:52 AM »
Clueless. 

George Whorewell

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2011, 03:34:21 AM »
What makes you think taxpayers aren't at the table making the deal? Who do you think is making the deal?  It is called collective bargaining. It is not like unions can go to government leadership and demand this or that on behalf of public employees. in fact, many public employees do not have the ability, by law to strike should they not reach agreement. Are you aware of that?

Before I retired from public education, as a union leader, I sat across the table many times from administration who represented the elected School Board and bargained for classified employee wages, working conditions and benefits. I presume we all paid taxes no matter which side of the table we were on. It isn't some magical them verses us situation. Public employees aren't the enemy or the problem.

Oh god. A public education union leader. You are the enemy and the problem.  ::)

tonymctones

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2011, 04:17:49 AM »
What makes you think taxpayers aren't at the table making the deal? Who do you think is making the deal?  It is called collective bargaining. It is not like unions can go to government leadership and demand this or that on behalf of public employees. in fact, many public employees do not have the ability, by law to strike should they not reach agreement. Are you aware of that?

Before I retired from public education, as a union leader, I sat across the table many times from administration who represented the elected School Board and bargained for classified employee wages, working conditions and benefits. I presume we all paid taxes no matter which side of the table we were on. It isn't some magical them verses us situation. Public employees aren't the enemy or the problem.
LOL bro, we may all be in the same boat but public employees are on the upper deck...

your pay checks come from our tax dollars, when there is less tax dollars to give in b/c of unemployment and underemployment...you guys not only need to suffer right along with us but if you want to be honest about you the govt needs to suffer more.

you keep thinking we are on the same side, thats union brain washing bro...you dont represent my best interest you represent your union members best interest and RIGHT NOW they are at opposite ends of the table...

WHY SHOULD ANYONE have the ability to strike and walk off a job while not being fired for it?


Primemuscle

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2011, 12:06:47 AM »
LOL bro, we may all be in the same boat but public employees are on the upper deck...

your pay checks come from our tax dollars, when there is less tax dollars to give in b/c of unemployment and underemployment...you guys not only need to suffer right along with us but if you want to be honest about you the govt needs to suffer more.

you keep thinking we are on the same side, thats union brain washing bro...you dont represent my best interest you represent your union members best interest and RIGHT NOW they are at opposite ends of the table...

WHY SHOULD ANYONE have the ability to strike and walk off a job while not being fired for it?



It is very clear you and I are not on the same side of the issue. You have no idea what public employees have already sacrificed and I do. You act as if you own public employees because you taxes of which some portion of may go to funding their wages, while I believe public employees deserve the same rights as other workers have. Federal law allows all workers public and private to unionize. Unlike many public employee groups all private sector employees have the right to strike if they reach an impass with their employer.

Fortunately, since Governor Walker start pulling his crap, public polls show that more American people support public employees right to bargain than don't....I guess
that leaves you in the minority....which is a good thing!

Actually, many public employees do not have the ability to go out on strike. Remember the air traffic controllers? Police and firemen and other safety related public employees can't strike. In Oregon educational employees cannot legally strike. All of these folks can participate in informational pickets for their rights though.

tonymctones

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Re: Union-Busting Is Theft -- a Weapon of Class Warfare from Above
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2011, 03:40:38 AM »
It is very clear you and I are not on the same side of the issue. You have no idea what public employees have already sacrificed and I do. You act as if you own public employees because you taxes of which some portion of may go to funding their wages, while I believe public employees deserve the same rights as other workers have. Federal law allows all workers public and private to unionize. Unlike many public employee groups all private sector employees have the right to strike if they reach an impass with their employer.

Fortunately, since Governor Walker start pulling his crap, public polls show that more American people support public employees right to bargain than don't....I guess
that leaves you in the minority....which is a good thing!

Actually, many public employees do not have the ability to go out on strike. Remember the air traffic controllers? Police and firemen and other safety related public employees can't strike. In Oregon educational employees cannot legally strike. All of these folks can participate in informational pickets for their rights though.
LMFAO you must have missed the part where I said why should ANYBODY meaning public or private be allowed to walk away from their job and not be fired...

sorry if you agree to do a job then you do that job...vast majority dont have that right in america which MAKE YOU IN THE MINORITY...

yes youve sacrificed...LOL by not getting pay increases, taking maditory furlows and having to contribute to your health care and retirement and you act as if that is some big sacrifice... ::)

public opinion doesnt make political agenda if it did then the health care disaster would have never passed