Author Topic: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War  (Read 2760 times)

blacken700

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Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« on: March 04, 2011, 06:50:18 PM »


Forbes

In what may be the result of one of the great political miscalculations of our time, Scott Walker’s popularity in his home state is fast going down the tubes.

A Rasmussen poll out today reveals that almost 60% of likely Wisconsin voters now disapprove of their aggressive governor’s performance, with 48% strongly disapproving.

While these numbers are clearly indicators of a strategy gone horribly wrong, there are some additional findings in the poll that I suspect deserve even greater attention.

It turns out that the state’s public school teachers are very popular with their fellow Badgers. With 77% of those polled holding a high opinion of their educators, it is not particularly surprising that only 32% among households with children in the public school system approve of the governor’s performance. Sixty-seven percent (67%) disapprove, including 54% who strongly disapprove.

Can anyone imagine a politician succeeding with numbers like this among people who have kids?

These numbers should be of great concern not only to Governor Walker but to governors everywhere who were planning to follow down the path of war with state employee unions. You can’t take on the state worker unions without taking on the teachers – and the teachers are more popular than Gov. Walker and his cohorts appear to realize.

The data should also weigh heavily on the minds of each and every Republican gearing up to run for president in 2012 as the actions of Governor Walker, Kasich and anyone else planning to enter this fight are bringing Christmas to the Obama re-election campaign as they return rank and file union members to where they once lived  - the Democratic Party.

The defection of union members to the Republican Party has been an important part of the electoral math for successful GOP candidates for many years now and a real thorn in the side for the democrats.

Consider the re-election campaign of President George W. Bush where success came down to winning the vote in Northeastern Ohio.

I’m from Northeastern Ohio. I can tell you without hesitation that union flows through the blood of these people who spent so much of their lives in the steel mills (before they closed up) and are reminded each and every day of how well their union looked out for them. While a number of these people are retired and living on their pensions provided by their collective bargaining agreement, their kids – many of whom do not hold union jobs- remain very appreciative of what the unions did for mom and dad.

While this appreciation may not have prevented these people from siding politically with the social philosophy of George W. Bush – as they did- had Bush taken on the unions in his re-election bid, the outcome would likely have been very different.

These strong, emotional attachments to the unions persist in many of the rust belt states where so many key presidential battlegrounds can be found.

While Governor Walker may yet succeed in getting his budget repair bill through the legislative process and accomplish his goal of reducing collective bargaining to a shell of its former self, the larger battle appears to already be lost. And while Walker – still in the earliest stages of his term-may be able to recover over the next three and a half years, from a national perspective, I don’t know that Walker’s future makes any difference at all.

The damage has already been done.

Should Gov. Walker accomplish his goal, he will have stoked a level of union anger that I very much suspect will become a key driver in an Obama victory in 2012. He will also have prompted the nation’s unions to work together for a common objective– a feat that would have seemed impossible just one month ago.

If Walker loses his fight, he will have reminded the unions of the importance of fighting back against their enemies, reminding them of how life was for their forbearers who fought to establish the modern union movement. This will ignite the passion for battle while reminding those union folks who have been voting republican of the importance of sticking with the party that sticks with them.

Walker would have done well to take ‘yes’ for an answer when the unions agreed to his financial proposals. Given the procedural advantages in Ohio, where the GOP legislators could push through the anti-collective bargaining bill without the need for Democratic legislators, Walker should have backed down and allowed John Kasich to take the lead in the effort.

The Wisconsin governor’s desire to be at the forefront of his perceived GOP revolution may not only have doomed the anti-union effort, but it may forever label him as the man who gave the democrats the gift that keeps on giving – the return of the union rank and file into the arms of the Democratic Party.

GigantorX

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 07:37:40 PM »
Whatever. The budget will get balanced and in a few months things will get back to normal.

MB

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 08:32:19 PM »
If Walker has lost the war, I guess the WI Dem. State Senators can return to work now. 

Primemuscle

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 11:00:11 PM »
Good thoughts here. I hope your analysis is correct. my union asked me to go the Wisconsin and perhaps Ohio because of this situation. Unfortunately, I have other pressing personal family commitments hindering my helping my union brothers and sisters at this time.

I am retired from a long career in public education. I know first hand how important public and private sector unions are to us working class citizens in this country. Without our unions, many more of us would be living in poverty than are currently.

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2011, 03:50:37 AM »
When the layoffs begin and thousands lose their jobs due to union intransegience and screaming I don't want to hear a word.

The union thugs had a chance to avoid all layoffs and now risk losing the jobs of thousands of people.  That is sick and demented, but expected from union people. 

Walker is asking for the same deal that the fed govt has.  No one is screaming that those employees are treated unfairly!

And public workers are not taxpayers - they are tax takers. 

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2011, 05:59:40 AM »
A Rasmussen poll out today reveals that almost 60% of likely Wisconsin voters now disapprove of their aggressive governor’s performance, with 48% strongly disapproving.

Admitting he considered sneaking some rowdy rioters into a peaceful crowd (illegally endangering the lives of the citizens of his state) probably didn't help his cause. 

Kazan

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2011, 07:29:16 AM »
Good thoughts here. I hope your analysis is correct. my union asked me to go the Wisconsin and perhaps Ohio because of this situation. Unfortunately, I have other pressing personal family commitments hindering my helping my union brothers and sisters at this time.

I am retired from a long career in public education. I know first hand how important public and private sector unions are to us working class citizens in this country. Without our unions, many more of us would be living in poverty than are currently.

You know I read stuff like this and have to laugh, the kids in WI are basically functional illiterates. So you tell me what other reason than the union would a bunch of under performing workers be able to keep their job? If education was so fucking important the teachers would be teaching the kids not out protesting.
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Kazan

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2011, 07:31:10 AM »
Admitting he considered sneaking some rowdy rioters into a peaceful crowd (illegally endangering the lives of the citizens of his state) probably didn't help his cause. 


Where was this level of outrage when the POTUS was telling people to punish their enemies? Or any of the other numerous dumbass things he said?????
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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2011, 08:00:58 AM »

Where was this level of outrage when the POTUS was telling people to punish their enemies? Or any of the other numerous dumbass things he said?????


so to be clear - you agree walker is a bag of shit for considering violence against americans?  You can't tell a judge "look brah, I killed one dude, but ted Bundy killed like 50, and you're not all pissed about him...."


If your only defense of walker is "Why weren't you mad when so-and-so did it", that's not much of a defense.

Kazan

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2011, 09:09:54 AM »

so to be clear - you agree walker is a bag of shit for considering violence against americans?  You can't tell a judge "look brah, I killed one dude, but ted Bundy killed like 50, and you're not all pissed about him...."


If your only defense of walker is "Why weren't you mad when so-and-so did it", that's not much of a defense.

What exactly does that have to do with your fucking double standard for everything Obama? As usual you try to turn this into being about me, well I'm not playing, Obama doesn't get a fucking pass for whatever reason you think he deserves one. Is it because he is black? A far lefty? What exactly is it?

Where did I defend Walker?

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2011, 10:46:56 AM »
You pipe in on a thread titled "Gov Scott" and you attack me for not attacking obama, but claim you're not defending the governor?

Listen, if Obama ever admits to a prank caller that he considered the use of violence inciting rioters in order to achieve his political goals, I'll be the first to start a thread about how much he sucks.

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2011, 12:10:39 PM »
actaully walker is kicksing ass

this is BS

everyone wants him to clean out those union roaches

Rasmussen should have done their poll with "everyone" because the one they did of likely Wisconsin voters show only 34% strongly approve and 48% strongly disapprove of the job he is doing


Primemuscle

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2011, 02:04:41 PM »
When the layoffs begin and thousands lose their jobs due to union intransegience and screaming I don't want to hear a word.

The union thugs had a chance to avoid all layoffs and now risk losing the jobs of thousands of people.  That is sick and demented, but expected from union people. 

Walker is asking for the same deal that the fed govt has.  No one is screaming that those employees are treated unfairly!

And public workers are not taxpayers - they are tax takers. 

Public employees pay taxes just the same as anyone else does.

No one wants to see folks lose their jobs. The problem is that a some people think we don't need public employees or that they should be public servants (as in slaves) and work for nothing. When hardworking public employees are laid off and there is no one doing their job, folks will realize how valuable they were. I wouldn't expect the layoffs to last very long. When teachers are laid off and classroom sizes soar, parents will have the Governor's head! Not enough school bus drivers left to take kids to school? Watch what happens then!

The only folks hurt by wage and benefit cuts as proposed by the Governor are the public employees. But when public employees get laid off, everyone will feel the pain. I am a retired public school employee. My pay and benefits were competitive with folks having equal training and skills working in in the private sector. I didn't get rich....but I wouldn't have worked there for less. I wasn't a public slave.

tonymctones

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2011, 02:12:12 PM »
Public employees pay taxes just the same as anyone else does.

No one wants to see folks lose their jobs. The problem is that a some people think we don't need public employees or that they should be public servants (as in slaves) and work for nothing. When hardworking public employees are laid off and there is no one doing their job, folks will realize how valuable they were. I wouldn't expect the layoffs to last very long. When teachers are laid off and classroom sizes soar, parents will have the Governor's head! Not enough school bus drivers left to take kids to school? Watch what happens then!

The only folks hurt by wage and benefit cuts as proposed by the Governor are the public employees. But when public employees get laid off, everyone will feel the pain. I am a retired public school employee. My pay and benefits were competitive with folks having equal training and skills working in in the private sector. I didn't get rich....but I wouldn't have worked there for less. I wasn't a public slave.
nobody is saying we dont need public servants...

nobody is saying they dont pay taxes...

what most are saying is that in a time when everyone is hurting, they should hurt right along with us...its insane to think that they contribute so little if any to their health care and retirement.


Primemuscle

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2011, 02:22:09 PM »
How do you know they aren't feeling the financial hurt along with the rest of us? At the school district where I worked, classified and certified employees have not seen an increase in salary since 2007. They have been given up to 20 furlow days (temporary layoffs). They are paying a larger portion of their benefit costs, when they still have them. Many have lost medical benefit coverage due to reductions in hours. Work less than 4 hrs a day and you don't qualify for benefits, period. Just like you and I these folks are paying more for essentials like groceries and fuel and trying to pay for them with less money.

Unfortunately, the grass always looks greener when your on the other side of the fence.

tonymctones

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2011, 02:30:41 PM »
How do you know they aren't feeling the financial hurt along with the rest of us? At the school district where I worked, classified and certified employees have not seen an increase in salary since 2007. They have been given up to 20 furlow days (temporary layoffs). They are paying a larger portion of their benefit costs, when they still have them. Many have lost medical benefit coverage due to reductions in hours. Work less than 4 hrs a day and you don't qualify for benefits, period. Just like you and I these folks are paying more for essentials like groceries and fuel and trying to pay for them with less money.

Unfortunately, the grass always looks greener when your on the other side of the fence.
ARE YOU FUKING SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!

what % of teachers have been laid off over the past 4 years?

There are millions out there without jobs, being laid off, under employed and youre fuking talking about not getting pay raises and being 20 day furlows?

FUKING SERIOUSLY???

you disconnected dunce!!!!


tonymctones

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2011, 02:35:08 PM »
How do you know they aren't feeling the financial hurt along with the rest of us? At the school district where I worked, classified and certified employees have not seen an increase in salary since 2007. They have been given up to 20 furlow days (temporary layoffs). They are paying a larger portion of their benefit costs, when they still have them. Many have lost medical benefit coverage due to reductions in hours. Work less than 4 hrs a day and you don't qualify for benefits, period. Just like you and I these folks are paying more for essentials like groceries and fuel and trying to pay for them with less money.

Unfortunately, the grass always looks greener when your on the other side of the fence.
so in a time when unemployment is at record highs, under employment is at record highs...

you feel that not getting a pay raise is sharing in the pain?

goodness gracious man


Kazan

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2011, 02:45:18 PM »
You pipe in on a thread titled "Gov Scott" and you attack me for not attacking obama, but claim you're not defending the governor?

Listen, if Obama ever admits to a prank caller that he considered the use of violence inciting rioters in order to achieve his political goals, I'll be the first to start a thread about how much he sucks.

So basically your going to continue to play your game? You intentionally try to stir shit up then act surprised when you get called out for your fucking double standard. Obama could shit in a hot dog bun, you would gladly eat it and ask for seconds.
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tonymctones

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2011, 09:10:01 PM »
bump for an answer from the retired teach...

you think not getting a pay raise and taking a 4 week furlow is the same as the millions being unemployed or under employed?

thats sacrifice to you? to public employees?

fucking really???

Primemuscle

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2011, 09:50:22 PM »
bump for an answer from the retired teach...

you think not getting a pay raise and taking a 4 week furlow is the same as the millions being unemployed or under employed?

thats sacrifice to you? to public employees?

fucking really???

Just so you know, I am not a retired teacher. I worked out of the physical plant in the maintenance department. My job was to help keep our schools safe, clean and operational for students and staff. Not too glamorous, but necessary.

You don't get it do you? Let me spell it out for you. The furlow days plus the absence of pay increases for the last three going on four years is what the remaining full time employees are trying to live with. A third of the employees were laid off and are now unemployed and another third of the remaining employees are now under-employed. Full time jobs at the District are a rarity these days. However, the District is constantly looking to hire cooks, custodians bus-drivers and instructional assistants. But what with the low wages, part time work and little or no benefits, even with the high unemployment in Oregon, people aren't applying. They can make more money at McDonald's or Starbucks. Yeah, it's so great being a public employee....you should give it a try.

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2011, 06:44:13 AM »
Just so you know, I am not a retired teacher. I worked out of the physical plant in the maintenance department. My job was to help keep our schools safe, clean and operational for students and staff. Not too glamorous, but necessary.

You don't get it do you? Let me spell it out for you. The furlow days plus the absence of pay increases for the last three going on four years is what the remaining full time employees are trying to live with. A third of the employees were laid off and are now unemployed and another third of the remaining employees are now under-employed. Full time jobs at the District are a rarity these days. However, the District is constantly looking to hire cooks, custodians bus-drivers and instructional assistants. But what with the low wages, part time work and little or no benefits, even with the high unemployment in Oregon, people aren't applying. They can make more money at McDonald's or Starbucks. Yeah, it's so great being a public employee....you should give it a try.
how many teachers were laid off? not other employees, teachers?

sorry bro but part time cooks, janitors, Inst assitants dont need to be making a good living doing that...

youre they type that feels those ppl should be middle class, right?

bro if ppl like that deserve to be middle class then what do ppl who work as management deserve to be?

another thing is you CHOOSE to work there, as did the line cooks, janitors and inst assistants...if you want you can go work else where and if you dont make the desired amount I suggest you go do it.

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2011, 07:16:42 AM »
Just so you know, I am not a retired teacher. I worked out of the physical plant in the maintenance department. My job was to help keep our schools safe, clean and operational for students and staff. Not too glamorous, but necessary.

You don't get it do you? Let me spell it out for you. The furlow days plus the absence of pay increases for the last three going on four years is what the remaining full time employees are trying to live with. A third of the employees were laid off and are now unemployed and another third of the remaining employees are now under-employed. Full time jobs at the District are a rarity these days. However, the District is constantly looking to hire cooks, custodians bus-drivers and instructional assistants. But what with the low wages, part time work and little or no benefits, even with the high unemployment in Oregon, people aren't applying. They can make more money at McDonald's or Starbucks. Yeah, it's so great being a public employee....you should give it a try.

I understand your point.  I think what tony is saying is the lack of a pay raise and some furlough days don't really compare to people who are unemployed.  Anyone in the private sector who has maintained their job through a pretty bad recession should be thankful and should not be complaining.  Union employees have it pretty good compared to the average American. 

Primemuscle

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2011, 12:49:17 AM »
I understand your point.  I think what tony is saying is the lack of a pay raise and some furlough days don't really compare to people who are unemployed.  Anyone in the private sector who has maintained their job through a pretty bad recession should be thankful and should not be complaining.  Union employees have it pretty good compared to the average American. 

I agree that if the only thing public employees suffered were furlough days and a wage freeze, they'd be doing well as compared to many folks in the private sector who are either unemployed or underemployed. However, what I am saying is that public employees have also seen big layoff and reductions in hours....at least in Oregon. It is ridiculous to split hairs between one working class group of folks and another because essentially, we are all in the same lousy boat.

Historically, unions have raised the bar for all workers whether they are unionized or not. Case in point, Precision Cast Parts, a major manufacturing firm in Oregon, is non union. How do they do that? They do it by being competitive with what union workers who do comparable work earn in wage and benefits and by being loyal to their employees. Some would argue that unions are no longer necessary. I disagree. If it were not for organized labor, you, I and most of the working class would still be working 80 hour weeks, there would still be child labor and we'd probably "owe our souls to the company store." In other words we'd still be slaves to the rich.

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2011, 01:38:16 AM »
Public unions are not the same as private unions.

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Re: Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2011, 04:39:28 AM »
nobody is saying we dont need public servants...

nobody is saying they dont pay taxes...

what most are saying is that in a time when everyone is hurting, they should hurt right along with us...its insane to think that they contribute so little if any to their health care and retirement.


Agree however the politicians, the CEO's, Wall Street you name it, should hurt too then right?