Author Topic: Strongest Factions??? (Read 6071 times)

GraniteCityDon · « **on:** March 06, 2011, 02:54:57 AM »

Who would you class, in no particular order, as the strongest factions ever? Mine would have to include:

4 Horsemen
Nation
Dangerous Alliance
Corporate Ministry (Although The Union was woeful!)
DX & Radicalz (for a short period of time)
NWO before everyone became a part of it

Each of these factions had a major impact on their respective era's and were included in most of the major storylines, regardless of how strong / weak the era actually was. It was a shame that Austin - as good as he was - single handidly became responsible for the Ministry's downfall (kayfabe) as they were owning & sacrificing everyone.

I only remember from the late 80's onwards so i dont really recall the territories but were there any such factions back then? I wouldnt include and of the "Families" as they were more of a stable.

Montague · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2011, 05:41:36 AM »

I was a total mark for the Radicalz because I was a fan of every one of its members when they were all still working as underneath guys.
As the WCW product began to stagnate in the late 90's, I looked forward to the formation of Revolution (the Radicalz + Shane Douglas) because it seemed like the company was finally going to finish developing and utilize this untapped talent.

When Benoit won the big belt, I thought for sure that the WCW bookers had finally found the pulse again.
Then...flatline.

When WCW allowed those guys to leave and walk right through the WWF's doors, I knew the writing was on the wall.
The Fed was already ahead in the ratings, and WCW was only sinking more.
I think that even though Vince didn't keep the group together for long, their arrival and initial use served as a landmark in the "Monday Night Wars."

GraniteCityDon · « **Reply #2 on:** March 06, 2011, 07:32:20 AM »

Agreed, i remember them being referred to as "from down south" lol Great impact by all accounts, the systematic demolition of the Outlaws showcased what they were all about and made everyone take notice that these guys werent here just to be part of the roster.

WCW made so many errors with so many individuals its hard to believe they lasted as long as they did. There was no sense of accountability for the powers that be because they made the same mistakes over and over again with almost no backlash i can think of.

Montague · « **Reply #3 on:** March 06, 2011, 09:05:13 AM »

Quote from: GraniteCityDon on March 06, 2011, 07:32:20 AM

Agreed, i remember them being referred to as "from down south" lol Great impact by all accounts, the systematic demolition of the Outlaws showcased what they were all about and made everyone take notice that these guys werent here just to be part of the roster.

WCW made so many errors with so many individuals its hard to believe they lasted as long as they did. There was no sense of accountability for the powers that be because they made the same mistakes over and over again with almost no backlash i can think of.

Yeah.
And, I've said this many times before: you can blame bad booking, but you also need to blame whoever okay'ed those ideas.
It started with Turner.
He wasn't involved enough with his own product.
He had the authority over everything in WCW and didn't do a damn thing.

You never appoint a bunch of other people to run your business and then just forget about it.

Montague · « **Reply #4 on:** March 06, 2011, 06:20:10 PM »

I was looking at this picture the other day when a depressing thought hit me: three of these five guys are no longer with us.

Playboy · « **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2011, 04:43:49 AM »

NWO due to numbers and personas but the Horsemen started it all. I think DX was a complete waste of time. DX was all Shawn Michaels. Back then HHH wasn't "The Game" and he wasn't nearly as big as he was after mid 1999 when he sauced up hard nor was he the talker he is now. He had to leave DX and it was only then that he started to go over. No one cared about the Rodd Dog and Billy Gunn.

Montague · « **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2011, 05:00:05 AM »

Quote from: Playboy on March 07, 2011, 04:43:49 AM

NWO due to numbers and personas but the Horsemen started it all. I think DX was a complete waste of time. DX was all Shawn Michaels. Back then HHH wasn't "The Game" and he wasn't nearly as big as he was after mid 1999 when he sauced up hard nor was he the talker he is now. He had to leave DX and it was only then that he started to go over. No one cared about the Rodd Dog and Billy Gunn.

Everyone else came after the Horsemen - they were #1 on every level.
IMO, D-X was amusing and appropriate for ushering in the Attitude Era because of their deliberate/often "forced" shock value.
I agree with you that Helmsley's best work was yet to come.

The Showstoppa · « **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2011, 05:33:06 AM »

Of course I vote Horsemen of the mid-80's as number one. Original, then Luger and then Windham were all GREAT..... I don't even consider any of the other crap versions on the level to be discussed.

nWo at it's beginning was incredible. Should have stayed, Hall, Nash Hogan and maybe X-pac (to laugh at). So I put that "early" incarnation second.

After that i think of them as just a bunch of different stables....Sullivan had some great ones in Florida as well as the Varsity Club, Ellering in GCW and of course DX all come to mind.

Montague · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2011, 07:51:29 AM »

Quote from: The Showstoppa on March 07, 2011, 05:33:06 AM

Of course I vote Horsemen of the mid-80's as number one. Original, then Luger and then Windham were all GREAT..... I don't even consider any of the other crap versions on the level to be discussed.

You didn't like Mongo?

Playboy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:06:32 AM »

Quote from: Montague on March 06, 2011, 06:20:10 PM

I was looking at this picture the other day when a depressing thought hit me: three of these five guys are no longer with us.

Crap, I just noticed this pic.....very sad to see that three as you mentioned Mont, are gone.... $:-\$

The Showstoppa · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2011, 02:42:48 PM »

Quote from: Montague on March 07, 2011, 07:51:29 AM

You didn't like Mongo?

That was awful....all he did was run around yelling "YEAH BABY !!!" just awful....worse than Paul Roma.....and that is saying a lot.....

leaky_frog · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2011, 04:06:20 PM »

Have to agree the Horseman will always come first.

I loved early NWO (before Wolfpac, LWO, etc); the heat on those guys was incredible, especially Hogan. I had no idea he would be so good at being bad.

Montague · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2011, 05:34:39 PM »

Quote from: Playboy on March 07, 2011, 09:06:32 AM

Crap, I just noticed this pic.....very sad to see that three as you mentioned Mont, are gone.... $:-\$

Hennig & Davey were two of my biggest motivations back in my "training days."
I was incredibly bummed out when they passed.

Quote from: The Showstoppa on March 07, 2011, 02:42:48 PM

That was awful....all he did was run around yelling "YEAH BABY !!!" just awful....worse than Paul Roma.....and that is saying a lot.....

When Bischoff's your biggest mark...

OLE BIG · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2011, 01:37:55 AM »

Quote from: The Showstoppa on March 07, 2011, 05:33:06 AM

Of course I vote Horsemen of the mid-80's as number one. Original, then Luger and then Windham were all GREAT..... I don't even consider any of the other crap versions on the level to be discussed.

nWo at it's beginning was incredible. Should have stayed, Hall, Nash Hogan and maybe X-pac (to laugh at). So I put that "early" incarnation second.

After that i think of them as just a bunch of different stables....Sullivan had some great ones in Florida as well as the Varsity Club, Ellering in GCW and of course DX all come to mind.

Not al lot of love for DX? I am surprised. Michaels is better than their best, and HHH would be a pretty strong number two. Other than sheer numbers, I would put their best on par with, if not better than the nWo.

Man, I loved the Varsity Club. They didn't get a lot of play, and possibly rightly so, but what a cool group.

The Showstoppa · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2011, 05:17:28 AM »

Quote from: OLE BIG on March 08, 2011, 01:37:55 AM

Not al lot of love for DX? I am surprised. Michaels is better than their best, and HHH would be a pretty strong number two. Other than sheer numbers, I would put their best on par with, if not better than the nWo.

Man, I loved the Varsity Club. They didn't get a lot of play, and possibly rightly so, but what a cool group.

when i think of DX as a faction, its more after HBK was out.....when New Age Outlaws, HHH, etc... were DX. when it was just Michaels, HHH and Chyna, I thought of them more as a loose "team" with a valet.

Playboy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 08, 2011, 05:49:45 AM »

The original horsemen were awesome and only with Barry Windham as a replacement as an exception to the rule. IMO every other horseman was a wannabe. Even when they created the new horsemen with Malenko, Benoit, Pillman, it just wasn't the same.

Mongo was a complete waste of space.

The Showstoppa · « **Reply #16 on:** March 08, 2011, 05:52:13 AM »

Quote from: Playboy on March 08, 2011, 05:49:45 AM

The original horsemen were awesome and only with Barry Windham as a replacement as an exception to the rule. IMO every other horseman was a wannabe. Even when they created the new horsemen with Malenko, Benoit, Pillman, it just wasn't the same.

Mongo was a complete waste of space.

totally agree. I didn't mind Luger, as it was a great storyline with booting Ole and then the run after the Horsemen that Luger had. It really gave him a leap-frog into ME status. I think w/windham it was the best version of the Horsemen. One thing I always loved was the connection Flair had with Windham from the Flair/Blackjack Mulligan tt's and fueds in the old mid-atlantic. Just made sense.

Playboy · « **Reply #17 on:** March 09, 2011, 06:39:03 AM »

Quote from: The Showstoppa on March 08, 2011, 05:52:13 AM

totally agree. I didn't mind Luger, as it was a great storyline with booting Ole and then the run after the Horsemen that Luger had. It really gave him a leap-frog into ME status. I think w/windham it was the best version of the Horsemen. One thing I always loved was the connection Flair had with Windham from the Flair/Blackjack Mulligan tt's and fueds in the old mid-atlantic. Just made sense.

Luger had the look. Thats about it. He was so green and was a way better face (which they needed at that time) but as Flair stated in the horsemen dvd, the company didn't let Luger develop his skills and that is not Luger's fault.

The Showstoppa · « **Reply #18 on:** March 09, 2011, 06:44:47 AM »

Quote from: Playboy on March 09, 2011, 06:39:03 AM

Luger had the look. Thats about it. He was so green and was a way better face (which they needed at that time) but as Flair stated in the horsemen dvd, the company didn't let Luger develop his skills and that is not Luger's fault.

I was visiting my brother who lived in Florida at the time and got to see Luger vs Wahoo live before Luger came to JCP. He was obviously green, but you could tell he had the "it" factor. It really is a shame they didn't let him develop in-ring. The Luger/Windham on-again/off again thing was very good for both of them.

Playboy · « **Reply #19 on:** March 09, 2011, 07:09:35 AM »

Quote from: The Showstoppa on March 09, 2011, 06:44:47 AM

I was visiting my brother who lived in Florida at the time and got to see Luger vs Wahoo live before Luger came to JCP. He was obviously green, but you could tell he had the "it" factor. It really is a shame they didn't let him develop in-ring. The Luger/Windham on-again/off again thing was very good for both of them.

I saw Luger working out at my gym back in 1994. He was doing incline barbell presses for chest. He warmed up with 225 for 15 reps and did 4 sets of a good clean 8 reps. Unbelievable and he was nice and polite.

The Showstoppa · « **Reply #20 on:** March 09, 2011, 07:11:38 AM »

Quote from: Playboy on March 09, 2011, 07:09:35 AM

I saw Luger working out at my gym back in 1994. He was doing incline barbell presses for chest. He warmed up with 225 for 15 reps and did 4 sets of a good clean 8 reps. Unbelievable and he was nice and polite.

Ole Big worked out at Lugers gym in Atlanta.....maybe he could chime in with some stuff.

Playboy · « **Reply #21 on:** March 09, 2011, 07:24:08 AM »

Quote from: The Showstoppa on March 09, 2011, 07:11:38 AM

Ole Big worked out at Lugers gym in Atlanta.....maybe he could chime in with some stuff.

That would be great to hear....what about it Big Ole?

The Showstoppa · « **Reply #22 on:** March 09, 2011, 07:25:58 AM »

Quote from: Playboy on March 09, 2011, 07:24:08 AM

That would be great to hear....what about it Big Ole?

He probably hasn't woke up yet....haha....I'll try to shoot him an email, or call, and let him know about this thread.

yates fan · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2011, 05:23:03 PM »

i would say,dangerous alliance or original n.w.o.

Montague · « **Reply #24 on:** March 10, 2011, 03:14:00 AM »

^^LOL!!