Author Topic: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya  (Read 6482 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2011, 07:28:13 AM »
Here comes a shocker. The WSJ is saying that the Euros and Arabs aren’t anywhere near capable of enforcing the NFZ without us doing the bulk of the work and that this entire thing is on the verge of falling flat on its face because we’re looking for someone else to lead the charge for once. Didn’t see that coming!  ::)

Qaddafi's tanks just rolled into Benghazi, too. This rebellion is all but done, anyway.


What the hell is the point of a no fly zone in the first place?

Fury

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2011, 07:36:56 AM »
What the hell is the point of a no fly zone in the first place?

To soothe egos of the UN as they sat on the sidelines and watched another massacre take place. They'll probably use it to ask for more money from the US.

Soul Crusher

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2011, 07:39:11 AM »
To soothe egos of the UN as they sat on the sidelines and watched another massacre take place. They'll probably use it to ask for more money from the US.

This seems like a big waste of time at this point. 

Gadaffi already did what he needed to do to crush the rebels nd now its too little to olate and going o require a lot more than fly overs to get him out of there at this point. 


Fury

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2011, 07:41:54 AM »
This seems like a big waste of time at this point. 

Gadaffi already did what he needed to do to crush the rebels nd now its too little to olate and going o require a lot more than fly overs to get him out of there at this point. 



I wonder if he's even flying planes at this point. This will probably go from NFZ to bombing runs on Libyan forces within a few hours of it starting.

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2011, 07:47:08 AM »
To soothe egos of the UN as they sat on the sidelines and watched another massacre take place. They'll probably use it to ask for more money from the US.

in all fairness though-----

Aren't rebels intent on overthrowing the govt and hanging the leaders in the streets.... well, aren't they traitors?

If the president of a country chooses to kill traitors intent on overthrowing his nation, isn't that his right?

If president christie was elected in 2013, and suddenly 2000 liberals decided they were going to take over the country and kick out the leader - we'd call them traitors and they'd be locked up or hung, right?  You can't just go knocking over governments.

Plus, aren't these rebels al-Q and/or extemists anyway?  We're talking about risking uS lives and money to get into the middle of two grousp of a-holes fighting? 

Why not just spend the $ on popcorn and watch them kill each other?

Fury

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #55 on: March 19, 2011, 07:48:53 AM »
in all fairness though-----

Aren't rebels intent on overthrowing the govt and hanging the leaders in the streets.... well, aren't they traitors?

If the president of a country chooses to kill traitors intent on overthrowing his nation, isn't that his right?

If president christie was elected in 2013, and suddenly 2000 liberals decided they were going to take over the country and kick out the leader - we'd call them traitors and they'd be locked up or hung, right?  You can't just go knocking over governments.

Plus, aren't these rebels al-Q and/or extemists anyway?  We're talking about risking uS lives and money to get into the middle of two grousp of a-holes fighting?  

Why not just spend the $ on popcorn and watch them kill each other?

What? I've been against this NFZ from day one. The rebel side is crawling with jihadists and other anti-US scum. It's still a massacre, though.

The UN has almost 200 nations in it. The USA, who already pays 22% of its yearly bill, shouldn't have to do everything.

And you know the USA and Japan account for over 1/3 of the yearly UN budget? That organization is nothing more than a money-sucking vampire.

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2011, 07:50:52 AM »
What? I've been against this NFZ from day one. The rebel side is crawling with jihadists and other anti-US scum. Fuck them.

agreed.

I dont understand why so many ppl in our govt - from both parties - are so anxious to start a 3rd war to rescue some group of people who hate us anyway.

Soul Crusher

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2011, 07:53:54 AM »
agreed.

I dont understand why so many ppl in our govt - from both parties - are so anxious to start a 3rd war to rescue some group of people who hate us anyway.

Here is the problem 240  - Obama's incompetence in this is going to lead to a war.   

Fury

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2011, 07:57:16 AM »
agreed.

I dont understand why so many ppl in our govt - from both parties - are so anxious to start a 3rd war to rescue some group of people who hate us anyway.

Because Obama opened his fuckhole and threw his weight behind the protesters early on. Now, as the NY Times pointed out, should Qaddafi remain in power then it's likely he's going to reprise with terrorist attacks down the road.

Obama kowtowed to British and French pressure to put this NFZ in. Now those two c*nts, along with their buddies in the Arab League, aren't even capable of implementing the NFZ without the US doing the legwork.

When did our military become a tool of Western Europe?

George Whorewell

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #59 on: March 19, 2011, 08:33:36 AM »
Because Obama opened his fuckhole and threw his weight behind the protesters early on. Now, as the NY Times pointed out, should Qaddafi remain in power then it's likely he's going to reprise with terrorist attacks down the road.

Obama kowtowed to British and French pressure to put this NFZ in. Now those two c*nts, along with their buddies in the Arab League, aren't even capable of implementing the NFZ without the US doing the legwork.

When did our military become a tool of Western Europe?

When Barak Hussein Osama realized that teleprompters and race based quotas couldn't help him in diplomatic relations with the rest of the world.

Fury

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #60 on: March 19, 2011, 08:48:39 AM »
When Barak Hussein Osama realized that teleprompters and race based quotas couldn't help him in diplomatic relations with the rest of the world.

;D

Racist post reported.

Fury

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #61 on: March 19, 2011, 09:18:15 AM »
John Bolton: Barack Obama 'still not qualified' to be president
By JUANA SUMMERS | 3/19/11 1:09 AM EDT Updated: 3/19/11 9:56 AM EDT

SACRAMENTO, Calif - President Barack Obama is unqualified, disinterested and not ready to lead on foreign policy, John Bolton said Friday night.

Making no mention of his own flirtations with a 2012 presidential bid, the former ambassador to the United Nations told California Republicans that it could take hours to outline all the challenges the Obama administration faces.

"When President Obama took the office on Jan. 20, 2009, when it came to foreign policy and national security, he wasn't qualified to be president," Bolton said. "Today, more than two years later, he's still not qualified."

During his 27-minute speech to a state GOP convention here, Bolton criticized Obama's handling of nearly every significant foreign policy matter.

On Libya, Bolton blasted Obama's latest statement of American goals, saying the White House's objectives are now "utterly inexplicable," and that Obama had done a "180-degree shift" on the issue of a no-fly zone.

Likewise, Bolton said Obama was a flip-flopper on Egypt. "Obama had, by my count, four positions on Egypt before Mubarak finally fell."

Though not by name, Bolton also jabbed recent comments by potential 2012 rival Haley Barbour that America should consider shrinking its presence in Afghanistan.

"Many people wonder why we're there and what the objectives are," Bolton said, noting that an American presence in Afghanistan will help keep the country from becoming a "base for international terrorism."

"We're not there fighting for them. We're there fighting for us," he said.

Prior to his speech, Bolton told reporters he was "considering" a 2012 run, but that he hadn't made up his mind. He didn't offer a timeline for when he'd make a decision.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51584.html#ixzz1H3xk01D4



Soul Crusher

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #62 on: March 19, 2011, 09:21:20 AM »
Bolton is frequently on Batchelor and gives great commentary.  He clearly is a man who likes being in the trenches on these issues.   

He was one of the other things GWB did right that the far left freaked about.   Bolton was appointed in a recess appointment and the left exploded. 

whork25

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #63 on: March 19, 2011, 09:27:02 AM »
Looks like im the only one who supports this then

240 is Back

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #64 on: March 19, 2011, 10:08:33 AM »
should Qaddafi remain in power then it's likely he's going to reprise with terrorist attacks down the road.

I doubt it.  He is very happy we did nothing while he smoked the rebels, town by town, then delivered this weak "in"action at the last minute which stops nothing.

And the thought of him starting shit with the USA, that would be suicide.  Obama will let him cap his own people, but you start shit here and Obama's approval moves to 80% overnight and kadaffi sees his nation turned to Iraq II.   

Won't happen.

Soul Crusher

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #65 on: March 19, 2011, 10:11:17 AM »
I doubt it.  He is very happy we did nothing while he smoked the rebels, town by town, then delivered this weak "in"action at the last minute which stops nothing.

And the thought of him starting shit with the USA, that would be suicide.  Obama will let him cap his own people, but you start shit here and Obama's approval moves to 80% overnight and kadaffi sees his nation turned to Iraq II.   

Won't happen.

48 to go! 

Dos Equis

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #66 on: March 19, 2011, 10:26:04 AM »
We need to stay out of this one. 

Fury

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2011, 10:28:19 AM »
European governments "completely puzzled" about US position on Libya

(Foreign Policy) — Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s meetings in Paris with the G8 foreign ministers on Monday left her European interlocutors with more questions than answers about the Obama administration’s stance on intervention in Libya.

Inside the foreign ministers’ meeting, a loud and contentious debate erupted about whether to move forward with stronger action to halt Col. Muammar al-Qaddafi’s campaign against the Libyan rebels and the violence being perpetrated against civilians. Britain and France argued for immediate action while Germany and Russia opposed such a move, according to two European diplomats who were briefed on the meeting.

Clinton stayed out of the fray, repeating the administration’s position that all options are on the table but not specifically endorsing any particular step. She also did not voice support for stronger action in the near term, such as a no-fly zone or military aid to the rebels, both diplomats said.

“The way the U.S. acted was to let the Germans and the Russians block everything, which announced for us an alignment with the Germans as far as we are concerned,” one of the diplomats told The Cable.

Clinton’s unwillingness to commit the United States to a specific position led many in the room to wonder exactly where the administration stood on the situation in Libya.

“Frankly we are just completely puzzled,” the diplomat said. “We are wondering if this is a priority for the United States.”

On the same day, Clinton had a short meeting with French President Nicolas Sarkozy, in which Sarkozy pressed Clinton to come out more forcefully in favor of action in Libya. She declined Sarkozy’s request, according to a government source familiar with the meeting.

Sarkozy told Clinton that “we need action now” and she responded to him, “there are difficulties,” the source said, explaining that Clinton was referring to China and Russia’s opposition to intervention at the United Nations. Sarkozy replied that the United States should at least try to overcome the difficulties by leading a strong push at the U.N., but Clinton simply repeated, ”There are difficulties.”

One diplomat, who supports stronger action in Libya, contended that the United States’ lack of clarity on this issue is only strengthening those who oppose action.

“The risk we run is to look weak because we’ve asked him to leave and we aren’t taking any action to support our rhetoric and that has consequences on the ground and in the region,” said the European diplomat.

British and French frustration with the lack of international will to intervene in Libya is growing. British Prime Minister David Cameron said on Tuesday that Arab sentiment was, “if you don’t show your support for the Libyan people and for democracy at this time, you are saying you will intervene only when it’s about your security, but you won’t help when it’s about our democracy.”

France sent letters on Wednesday to all the members of the U.N. Security Council, which is discussing a Lebanon-sponsored resolution to implement a no-fly zone, calling on them to support the resolution, as has been requested by the Arab League.

“Together, we can save the martyred people of Libya. It is now a matter of days, if not hours. The worst would be that the appeal of the League of the Arab States and the Security Council decisions be overruled by the force of arms,” the letter stated.

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe wrote on his blog, “It is not enough to proclaim, as did almost all of the major democracies that ‘Qaddafi must go.’ We must give ourselves the means to effectively assist those who took up arms against his dictatorship.”

In an interview with the BBC on Wednesday in Cairo, Clinton pointed to the U.N. Security Council as the proper venue for any decision to be made and she pushed back at the contention by the British and the French that the U.S. was dragging its feet.

“I don’t think that is fair. I think, based on my conversations in Paris with the G-8 ministers, which, of course, included those two countries, I think we all agree that given the Arab League statement, it was time to move to the Security Council to see what was possible,” Clinton said. I don’t want to prejudge it because countries are still very concerned about it. And I know how anxious the British and the French and the Lebanese are, and they have taken a big step in presenting something. But we want to get something that will do what needs to be done and can be passed.”

“It won’t do us any good to consult, negotiate, and then have something vetoed or not have enough votes to pass it,” Clinton added.

Clinton met with Libyan opposition leader Mahmoud Jibril in Paris as well, but declined to make any promises on specific actions to support the Libyan opposition.

Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman John Kerry (D-MA) also doubled down on his call for a no-fly zone over Libya in a speech on Wednesday at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

“The international community cannot simply watch from the sidelines as this quest for democracy is met with violence,” he said. “The Arab League’s call for a U.N. no-fly zone over Libya is an unprecedented signal that the old rules of impunity for autocratic leaders no longer stand. . . The world needs to respond immediately to avert a humanitarian disaster.”

And Clinton’s former top aide Anne-Marie Slaughter accused the Obama administration of prioritizing oil over the human rights of the people of Libya.

“U.S. is defining ‘vital strategic interest’ in terms of oil and geography, not universal values. Wrong call that will come back to haunt us,” she wrote on Wednesday on her Twitter page.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/16/european_governments_completely_puzzled_about_us_position_on_libya





I doubt it.  He is very happy we did nothing while he smoked the rebels, town by town, then delivered this weak "in"action at the last minute which stops nothing.

And the thought of him starting shit with the USA, that would be suicide.  Obama will let him cap his own people, but you start shit here and Obama's approval moves to 80% overnight and kadaffi sees his nation turned to Iraq II.  

Won't happen.

I was referring more towards England and France who are probably going to pay in some form. Qaddafi seems to be alright with the US response. Not that something like that means much. He's no angel.


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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2011, 10:54:00 AM »
We need to stay out of this one. 

Good call.

Please tell warmongers like Newt, T-Paw, Kerry, Mccain and Hannity that unless they are funding the war themselves, it's a no-win for the US to get involved.

Soul Crusher

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2011, 11:08:11 AM »
Good call.

Please tell warmongers like Newt, T-Paw, Kerry, Mccain and Hannity that unless they are funding the war themselves, it's a no-win for the US to get involved.

And Obama, KC Baller, Straw Man, Benny, an Andre 

240 is Back

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #70 on: March 19, 2011, 11:12:34 AM »
And Obama, KC Baller, Straw Man, Benny, an Andre 

Obama.... not so much... the totality of his action was a purposefully too-late vote, followed by zero action.  Bush would have (and did!) pushed the UN vote thru while massing troops for instant action.

Obama and gates made it very clear early on that we were not getting involved.  And we didn't.  If you don't see the wink-wink of such a late vote (which even Rush and hannity called too little to late to change a thing), you're just being blind on purpose.

Obama said we were gonna sit it out, and that's what we did ;)

Soul Crusher

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2011, 11:16:10 AM »
Obama.... not so much... the totality of his action was a purposefully too-late vote, followed by zero action.  Bush would have (and did!) pushed the UN vote thru while massing troops for instant action.

Obama and gates made it very clear early on that we were not getting involved.  And we didn't.  If you don't see the wink-wink of such a late vote (which even Rush and hannity called too little to late to change a thing), you're just being blind on purpose.

Obama said we were gonna sit it out, and that's what we did ;)

 ::)  ::)

This thing has not even gotten underway yet moron and you are declaring victory for your messiah? 

Fury

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2011, 11:26:37 AM »
::)  ::)

This thing has not even gotten underway yet moron and you are declaring victory for your messiah? 

Don't worry, he's "libertarian".  ::)

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2011, 12:01:53 PM »
Godspeed to our boys in the air. at sea. 8)


Skip8282

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Re: UN imposes No-Fly Zone over Libya
« Reply #74 on: March 20, 2011, 05:33:57 AM »
Obama.... not so much... the totality of his action was a purposefully too-late vote, followed by zero action.  Bush would have (and did!) pushed the UN vote thru while massing troops for instant action.

Obama and gates made it very clear early on that we were not getting involved.  And we didn't.  If you don't see the wink-wink of such a late vote (which even Rush and hannity called too little to late to change a thing), you're just being blind on purpose.

Obama said we were gonna sit it out, and that's what we did ;)



Too late vote and zero action?

What the fuck do you call all those missiles we shot over there.  We're knee deep in this muck - and you can thank Barry.