Author Topic: Who Are the Rebels  (Read 2525 times)

blacken700

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Who Are the Rebels
« on: March 28, 2011, 02:20:19 PM »
The New Yorker



hree of the world’s great armies have suddenly conspired to support a group of people in the coastal cities and towns of Libya, known, vaguely, as “the rebels.” Last month, Muammar Qaddafi, who combines a phantasmagorical sense of reality with an unbounded capacity for terror, appeared on television to say that the rebels were nothing more than Al Qaeda extremists, addled by hallucinogens slipped into their milk and Nescafé. President Obama, who is torn between the imperatives of rescuing Libyan innocents from slaughter and not falling into yet another prolonged war, described the same rebels rather differently: “people who are seeking a better way of life.”

During weeks of reporting in Benghazi and along the chaotic, shifting front line, I’ve spent a great deal of time with these volunteers. The hard core of the fighters has been the shabab—the young people whose protests in mid-February sparked the uprising. They range from street toughs to university students (many in computer science, engineering, or medicine), and have been joined by unemployed hipsters and middle-aged mechanics, merchants, and storekeepers. There is a contingent of workers for foreign companies: oil and maritime engineers, construction supervisors, translators. There are former soldiers, their gunstocks painted red, green, and black—the suddenly ubiquitous colors of the pre-Qaddafi Libyan flag.

And there are a few bearded religious men, more disciplined than the others, who appear intent on fighting at the dangerous tip of the advancing lines. It seems unlikely, however, that they represent Al Qaeda. I saw prayers being held on the front line at Ras Lanuf, but most of the fighters did not attend. One zealous-looking fighter at Brega acknowledged that he was a jihadi—a veteran of the Iraq war—but said that he welcomed U.S. involvement in Libya, because Qaddafi was a kafir, an unbeliever.

Outside Ajdabiya, a man named Ibrahim, one of many émigrés who have returned, said, “Libyans have always been Muslims—good Muslims.” People here regard themselves as decent and observant; a bit old-fashioned and parochial, but not Islamist radicals. Ibrahim is fifty-seven. He lives in Chicago, and turned over his auto-body shop and car wash to a friend so that he could come and fight. He had made his life in the United States, he said, but it was his duty as a Libyan to help get rid of Qaddafi––“the monster.”

In the past month, men like Ibrahim have rushed into combat as if it were an extension of the street protests, spurred by bravado and defiance but barely able to handle weapons. For many of them, the fighting consists largely of a performance—dancing and singing and firing into the air—and of racing around in improvised gunwagons. The ritual goes on until they are sent scurrying by Qaddafi’s shells. In the early days of Qaddafi’s counterattack, youthful fighters were outraged that the enemy was firing real artillery at them. Many hundreds have died.

The reality of combat has frightened the rebels, but it has also strengthened the resolve of those who have lost friends or brothers. Outside Ajdabiya, I met Muhammad Saleh, a young mechanic armed with only a bayonet. Just an hour or two earlier, he had seen his younger brother die. A few days later, he told me that he was planning to buy black-market weapons and, with a group of ten friends, return to the battlefield. With professional training and leadership (presumably from abroad), the rebels may eventually turn into something like a proper army. But, for now, they have perhaps only a thousand trained fighters, and are woefully outgunned. Last week, a former Army officer told me, “There is no army. It’s just us—a few volunteers like me and the shabab.”

Significant questions remain about the leaders of the rebellion: who they are, what their political ideas are, and what they would do if Qaddafi fell. At the courthouse on Benghazi’s battered seafront promenade, the de-facto seat of the Libyan revolution, a group of lawyers, doctors, and other professionals have appointed one another to a hodgepodge of “leadership councils.” There is a Benghazi city council, and a Provisional National Council, headed by a bland but apparently honest former justice minister, Mustafa Abdel Jalil, who spends his time in Bayda, a hundred and twenty-five miles away. Other cities have councils of their own. The members are intellectuals, former dissidents, and businesspeople, many of them from old families that were prominent before Qaddafi came to power. What they are not is organized. No one can explain how the Benghazi council works with the National Council. Last week, another shadow government, the Crisis Management Council, was announced in Benghazi; it was unclear how its leader, a former government planning expert named Mahmoud Jibril, would coördinate with Jalil, or whether he had supplanted him.

It gets more confusing: there are two competing military chiefs. One is General Abdel Fateh Younis, who was Qaddafi’s interior minister and the commander of the Libyan special forces until he “defected” to the rebel side. Younis has been publicly absent, and he is distrusted by the shabab and by many council members. The other chief, Colonel Khalifa Heftir, is a hero of Libya’s war with Chad, in the nineteen-eighties; he later turned against Qaddafi and, until recently, was in exile in the U.S. Unlike Younis, he elicits widespread admiration in Benghazi, but he, too, has kept out of sight, evidently at a secret Army camp where he is preparing élite troops for battle.

Mustafa Gheriani, a businessman and rebel spokesman, acknowledged the ragtag inefficiencies of the revolutionary councils but urged me not to believe Qaddafi’s charges of extremism. “The people here are looking to the West, not to some kind of socialist or other extreme system—that’s what we had here before,” he said. “But, if they become disappointed with the West, they may become easy prey for extremists.”

Before Qaddafi’s troops arrived in Benghazi, there was a great deal of revolutionary bluster; Libyans were united in their hatred of Qaddafi, rebels said, and if his forces tried to take the city they would stand and fight. But, when the first columns of soldiers reached the city’s edge, many thousands of Benghazians—including some city-council members—fled eastward. Of those who stayed to fight, more than thirty died, and the effort was saved only by the arrival of French warplanes. Since then, the rhetoric about unity has changed to include suspicious asides about Qaddafi loyalists, scores of whom have been rounded up and detained, in some cases violently.

Gheriani tried to assure me that the new state the rebels envision would be led not by confused mobs or religious extremists but by “Western-educated intellectuals,” like him. Whether this was wishful thinking, of which there has been a great deal here in recent weeks, was uncertain. After forty-two years of Muammar Qaddafi—his cruelty, his megalomaniacal presumptions of leadership in Africa and the Arab world, his oracular ramblings—Libyans don’t know what their country is, much less what it will be.

Some things are clear, though. In Benghazi, an influential businessman named Sami Bubtaina expressed a common sentiment: “We want democracy. We want good schools, we want a free media, an end to corruption, a private sector that can help build this nation, and a parliament to get rid of whoever, whenever, we want.” These are honorable aims. But to expect that they will be achieved easily is to deny the cost of decades of insanity, terror, and the deliberate eradication of civil society. ♦

ILLUSTRATION: TOM BACHTELL


Read more http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/04/04/110404taco_talk_anderson#ixzz1HvoNi4mc

Kazan

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2011, 04:12:16 PM »
You keep believing what some reporter, I'll take the word of the military, we'll see who's right
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blacken700

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 04:54:35 PM »
You keep believing what some reporter, I'll take the word of the military, we'll see who's right

i haven't seen anything on what the military said, post it

Kazan

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 05:12:18 PM »
i haven't seen anything on what the military said, post it

Google is your friend, there are many boards military boards. I suggest you don't post any of your stupid shit, you will last about 5 seconds
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Fury

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 05:14:21 PM »
Google is your friend, there are many boards military boards. I suggest you don't post any of your stupid shit, you will last about 5 seconds

LOL!  :D :D :D :D

blacken700

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 05:25:06 PM »
Google is your friend, there are many boards military boards. I suggest you don't post any of your stupid shit, you will last about 5 seconds

translation, you don't have shit  ::) just as i thought

Kazan

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 05:28:53 PM »
translation, you don't have shit  ::) just as i thought


Impossible, you have never had a thought. Just because your either to lazy or stupid to find the information is not my concern
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blacken700

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 05:32:09 PM »

Impossible, you have never had a thought. Just because your either to lazy or stupid to find the information is not my concern

you posted something dipshit now back it up

Kazan

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2011, 05:37:26 PM »
you posted something dipshit now back it up

Go over to socnet, don't post because you will be banned in seconds and read
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blacken700

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2011, 06:17:56 PM »
that's what i like poeple post shit and can't back it up typ. ::)     here let me try, the moon is made of cheese because  i said so, if you don't believe me go look it up yourself

Fury

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2011, 06:20:12 PM »

Impossible, you have never had a thought. Just because your either to lazy or stupid to find the information is not my concern

Hahaha! :D :D :D :D

blacken700

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2011, 06:26:52 PM »
Hahaha! :D :D :D :D

how you doing mommy's boy, does she know your still up,or are you being sneaky  :D :D :D

Fury

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2011, 06:28:04 PM »
Hahaha, this uneducated, jobless, semi-literate, welfare-leeching degenerate seems angry!

You’re a liar and a gimmick. Hope this helps. Why don’t you log on your “Whork” account and back yourself up in this thread because you’re taking a beating?
 
:D :D :D :D


Soul Crusher

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2011, 06:28:57 PM »
Hahaha, this uneducated, jobless, semi-literate, welfare-leeching degenerate seems angry!

You’re a liar and a gimmick. Hope this helps. Why don’t you log on your “Whork” account and back yourself up in this thread because you’re taking a beating.
 
:D :D :D :D



Stop - I;m about to bust a gut.    :( >:( ;D :D ;) :) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(

blacken700

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2011, 06:31:40 PM »
Hahaha, this uneducated, jobless, semi-literate, welfare-leeching degenerate seems angry!

You’re a liar and a gimmick. Hope this helps. Why don’t you log on your “Whork” account and back yourself up in this thread because you’re taking a beating.
 
:D :D :D :D



when you have your own place and don't live with your mommy than you can talk. i bet you don't even have a girlfriend, oh and your mommy don't count  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Fury

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2011, 06:33:12 PM »
Hahaha, the GED-holding, air force pilot, ground soldier who fought in three wars, multi-millionaire businessman and operator of fifteen different accounts on here seems quite upset.


blacken700

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2011, 06:38:51 PM »
berzerkfury on his first date    :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Soul Crusher

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2011, 07:35:33 PM »
Skip to comments.

Jihadis who killed Americans get U.S. support in Libya
Washington Examiner ^ | March 28, 2011 | Byron York



There's no question that the rebels Americans are currently fighting for in Libya include in their ranks jihadis who in recent years traveled to Iraq and Afghanistan to kill Americans. The only question is whether that worries you or not.

Take Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, a leader of U.S.-supported rebels in the fighting for Adjabiya. His hometown, Darnah, has produced many jihadis, and after the Sept. 11 attacks al-Hasidi traveled to Afghanistan to fight the "foreign invasion" -- that is, the U.S. military. According to a report in Britain's Daily Telegraph, al-Hasidi says he was later captured in Pakistan, handed over to the U.S., then held in prison in Libya before being released in 2008.

In addition to fighting the U.S. in Afghanistan, al-Hasidi also says he recruited about two dozen men to fight the U.S. in Iraq.

Now al-Hasidi and his allies are moving toward Tripoli, which would not be possible without the military power of the United States. The men who devoted so much energy to killing Americans are now thankfully watching Americans kill for them.

To some observers, that's no big deal. "No one seems all that frightened by him," the New York Times wrote of al-Hasidi after a visit to Darnah in early March. Al-Hasidi, the paper reported, "praises Osama bin Laden's 'good points' but denounces the 9/11 attacks on the United States." And besides, the Times reported, al-Hasidi finds it amusing that the government of Moammar Gadhafi considers him an al Qaeda terrorist. "He promised to lay down his arms once victory is won and return, he said, to teaching," the Times reported.

Maybe you believe that. Maybe you don't. The problem is, al-Hasidi is by no means alone.

We know that from intelligence gained in the Iraq War.


(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonexaminer.com ...


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Kazan

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2011, 08:05:26 PM »
that's what i like poeple post shit and can't back it up typ. ::)     here let me try, the moon is made of cheese because  i said so, if you don't believe me go look it up yourself

I told you the site, now either go read from people in the know or shut your fucking suck.
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blacken700

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2011, 04:08:14 AM »
I told you the site, now either go read from people in the know or shut your fucking suck.

post what you read,tough  guy ;D

Soul Crusher

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Re: Who Are the Rebels
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2011, 04:13:38 AM »
Ironic Post Reported.