Author Topic: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK CONTINUES...saves auto industry  (Read 5692 times)

andreisdaman

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Obama gets the credit for saving the auto industry...after many said that he should not bail them out with loans..Obama, showed great bravery in going ahead and giving GM and Chrysler loans anyway and SAVED THE U.S. AUTO INDUSTRY FROM COMPLETE AND TOTAL COLLAPSE...Obama saved 20,000 jobs....and GM and Chrysler are now selling more cars, making better cars, and are both showing profits again....ALL LOANS HAVE BEEN PAID BACK WITH INTEREST..the American people made money on the deal

lets remember that the conservatives and Republicans DID NOT WANT TO BAIL OUT THE AUTO INDUSTRY AND DIDN'T CARE THAT THE US WOULD BE TOTALLY OUT OF THE AUTO BUSINESS....

I don't know how Berzerk Fairy can even show his face in these threads any more...I keep schooling him big time...

PLUS...he still won't explain why he has his mother in his avatar :D


Fury

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2011, 07:33:46 PM »
$14 billion of US taxpayer dollars to save 20,000 jobs and two failed companies that, unlike Ford, were far too stupid to save themselves. You really are one pathetically stupid douche bag.

Nice meltdown, though.

andreisdaman

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2011, 07:35:14 PM »
$14 billion of US taxpayer dollars to save 20,000 jobs and two failed companies that, unlike Ford, were far too stupid to save themselves. You really are one pathetically stupid douche bag.

Nice meltdown, though.

you're the one melting..still repeating lies

Fury

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2011, 07:36:38 PM »
you're the one melting..still repeating lies

I just posted a WSJ article from today that quotes Obama's own crony, you stupid fuck. Good job owning me with an article from April 2010, though. You really are right on par with Blacken for Getbig's dumbest.


andreisdaman

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2011, 07:42:23 PM »
I just posted a WSJ article from today that quotes Obama's own crony, you stupid fuck. Good job owning me with an article from April 2010, though. You really are right on par with Blacken for Getbig's dumbest.


Jesus your dumbness never ceases...the article is from 2010 because THATS WHEN GM REPAID THE LOAN IN FULL!!!...can you read???...

now that I've owned you yet again, lets get to why you have your mother dancing naked in your avatar..thats more interesting

Fury

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2011, 07:44:02 PM »
Jesus your dumbness never ceases...the article is from 2010 because THATS WHEN GM REPAID THE LOAN IN FULL!!!...can you read???...

now that I've owned you yet again, lets get to why you have your mother dancing naked in your avatar..thats more interesting

Where in that Gallup thread did I mention GM, you fucking retard? I said "auto bailouts". Jesus, you are one stupid fuck.

This thread is definitely not going the way you intended it to.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303745304576359530678869402.html

LOL.

The best part has to be you bragging about US taxpayers paying $14 billion to save 20,000 jobs. Hahahahahaha!

GigantorX

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2011, 07:46:17 PM »
Jesus your dumbness never ceases...the article is from 2010 because THATS WHEN GM REPAID THE LOAN IN FULL!!!...can you read???...

now that I've owned you yet again, lets get to why you have your mother dancing naked in your avatar..thats more interesting

In fairness, GM did repay the loan but the Treasury still spent around 50 billion to buy a shareholders stake in the company. I share that the Treasury still owns. So yes, the loans were repaid but the 50 billion that bought the shares of GM are still on the books.

Fury

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2011, 07:47:32 PM »
Let's cheer for saving two failed companies that will rinse and repeat the same shitty business tactics that got them into that position in the first place. And if that's not good enough, let's cheer for that $700k/job the US taxpayer spent to save a union!

andreisdaman

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2011, 07:47:37 PM »
Where in that Gallup thread did I mention GM, you fucking retard? I said "auto bailouts". Jesus, you are one stupid fuck.

This thread is definitely not going the way you intended it to.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303745304576359530678869402.html

LOL.

The best part has to be you bragging about US taxpayers paying $14 billion to save 20,000 jobs. Hahahahahaha!

OH MY GOD>>you can't be that GODDAMN DUMB...AUTO BAILOUTS were to GM AND CHRYSLER.....GM PAID LOANS BACK....CHRYSLER PAID LOANS BACK....

admit you were wrong and lets move on so you can keep SOME self respect...
again..lets talk about why your mother is in your avatar

Fury

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2011, 07:49:28 PM »
OH MY GOD>>you can't be that GODDAMN DUMB...AUTO BAILOUTS were to GM AND CHRYSLER.....GM PAID LOANS BACK....CHRYSLER PAID LOANS BACK....

admit you were wrong and lets move on so you can keep SOME self respect...
again..lets talk about why your mother is in your avatar

Are you retarded? Seriously?

It was Obama's top auto and manufacturing adviser, Ron Bloom, that gave the $14 billion number today. So you're calling Obama a liar now? Another bit of advice: read the article before opening that cock holster of yours.

Just stop. This is fucking embarrassing for you.

andreisdaman

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2011, 07:50:51 PM »
In fairness, GM did repay the loan but the Treasury still spent around 50 billion to buy a shareholders stake in the company. I share that the Treasury still owns. So yes, the loans were repaid but the 50 billion that bought the shares of GM are still on the books.

yes but that obligation is now down to about 14 billion or so and Fiat and other consortiums have pledged to buy out the rest of the U.S obligation....we will have gotten back all of our money....but thanks for pointing that out

andreisdaman

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2011, 07:52:23 PM »
Are you retarded? Seriously?

It was Obama's top auto and manufacturing adviser, Ron Bloom, that gave the $14 billion number today. So you're calling Obama a liar now? Another bit of advice: read the article before opening that cock holster of yours.

Just stop. This is fucking embarrassing for you.

please don't talk about anything else..you are owned and won't apologize or own up to you being wrong....

NOW FOR THE TENTH TIME....WHY DO YOU HAVE YOUR MOTHER IN YOUR AVATAR???

Fury

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2011, 07:53:15 PM »
please don't talk about anything else..you are owned and won't apologize or own up to you being wrong....


Hit with reality so he falls back on failed tactics. Boring. Thanks for playing. You have officially reached "Blacken700" status.

"The White House's top auto and manufacturing adviser, Ron Bloom, later specified the loss at closer to $14 billion."
"The White House's top auto and manufacturing adviser, Ron Bloom, later specified the loss at closer to $14 billion."
"The White House's top auto and manufacturing adviser, Ron Bloom, later specified the loss at closer to $14 billion."
"The White House's top auto and manufacturing adviser, Ron Bloom, later specified the loss at closer to $14 billion."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

andreisdaman

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2011, 07:55:30 PM »
Hit with reality so he falls back on failed tactics. Boring. Thanks for playing. You have officially reached "Blacken700" status.

"The White House's top auto and manufacturing adviser, Ron Bloom, later specified the loss at closer to $14 billion."
"The White House's top auto and manufacturing adviser, Ron Bloom, later specified the loss at closer to $14 billion."
"The White House's top auto and manufacturing adviser, Ron Bloom, later specified the loss at closer to $14 billion."
"The White House's top auto and manufacturing adviser, Ron Bloom, later specified the loss at closer to $14 billion."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

sigh....this is like talking to a child

George Whorewell

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2011, 07:55:58 PM »
Andre-- the American car companies are a catastrophe with the exception of Ford. All are financed with billions in taxpayer money. The "saving" of the auto industry amounted to fattening the pockets of a few union bosses,  saving the jobs of 20 thousand or so obsolete American Autoworker Union employees and a perpetual cycle of tax rebate bribes where the government essentially paid consumers to purchase cars.

quadzilla456

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2011, 07:58:08 PM »
andreisdabitch...

haha - you are a moron. Let's have this talk again in a few years. You think USA is recovering? The shit is just starting.

Credit card debt is out of control. Millions more homes ready to foreclose. No manufacturing jobs were created. Massive affirmative action going on putting minorities into non productive jobs (Radioshack, Bestbuy, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. etc.). Politics in the USA run by lawyers instead of scientists and engineers (China). Gas prices going up. Discussions going on about raising the debt ceiling (yeah, that's a sign of a nation winning). Nasa being dismantled in lieu of welfare.

Should I go on? Andreis, the country is in a hot mess. There are so many distractions most sheople don't know what's going on. When the shit hits the fan they are open for a rude awakening.

andreisdaman

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2011, 07:59:35 PM »
Andre-- the American car companies are a catastrophe with the exception of Ford. All are financed with billions in taxpayer money. The "saving" of the auto industry amounted to fattening the pockets of a few union bosses,  saving the jobs of 20 thousand or so obsolete American Autoworker Union employees and a perpetual cycle of tax rebate bribes where the government essentially paid consumers to purchase cars.

good try and I guess that makes sense from your point of view.....frommy point of view and the view of most Americans...

Auto industry saved from total collapse
20. 0000 jobs saved or else the economy would have really tanked
many thousands more peripheral jobs which depend on the auto industry saved

there are other benefits but why bother listing them...you guys don't get it


Fury

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2011, 08:00:32 PM »
sigh....this is like talking to a child

So you're calling Obama and his top auto advisor liars?  ::)

And speaking of children, just look at your responses in this and Gallup thread. You're like what, almost 50, too?  :-X

good try and I guess that makes sense from your point of view.....frommy point of view and the view of most Americans...

Auto industry saved from total collapse
20. 0000 jobs saved or else the economy would have really tanked
many thousands more peripheral jobs which depend on the auto industry saved

there are other benefits but why bother listing them...you guys don't get it



20,000 jobs that wouldn't have made the economy any worse than it is. But yeah, you defending saving jobs at a cost of $700k/job.

Responding to you is honestly making my head hurt. You really are THAT fucking stupid.

andreisdaman

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2011, 08:01:03 PM »
andreisdabitch...

haha - you are a moron. Let's have this talk again in a few years. You think USA is recovering? The shit is just starting.

Credit card debt is out of control. Millions more homes ready to foreclose. No manufacturing jobs were created. Massive affirmative action going on putting minorities into non productive jobs (Radioshack, Bestbuy, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. etc.). Politics in the USA run by lawyers instead of scientists and engineers (China). Gas prices going up. Discussions going on about raising the debt ceiling (yeah, that's a sign of a nation winning). Nasa being dismantled in lieu of welfare.

Should I go on? Andreis, the country is in a hot mess. There are so many distractions most sheople don't know what's going on. When the shit hits the fan they are open for a rude awakening.

this thread is not about all those things you just mentioned..ONLY about the AUTO BAILOUTS...I can address that stuff as well if you like but why waste my time....

andreisdaman

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2011, 08:04:38 PM »
So you're calling Obama and his top auto advisor liars?  ::)

And speaking of children, just look at your responses in this and Gallup thread. You're like what, almost 50, too?  :-X

20,000 jobs that wouldn't have made the economy any worse than it is. But yeah, you defending saving jobs at a cost of $700k/job.

Responding to you is honestly making my head hurt. You really are THAT fucking stupid.


your continuing stupidity in the face of adversity would be commendable..if only you were't such a retard...I tell you what..since you are incapable of knowing right from wrong I will let up and leave you alone....you are too dumb to debate me and besides you need critical thinking skills to do so which you lack....

go back to studying for your GED....I'll even help you if you want..see??..no hard feelings

Fury

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2011, 08:05:56 PM »
You keep talking shit yet you refuse to actually refute Obama and his top auto adviser. Says a lot. Thanks for playing.

This thread was a magnificent backfire. Then again, 99.99% of your posts are. Sup, economy threads! LOL!


andreisdaman

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2011, 08:29:08 PM »
You keep talking shit yet you refuse to actually refute Obama and his top auto adviser. Says a lot. Thanks for playing.

This thread was a magnificent backfire. Then again, 99.99% of your posts are. Sup, economy threads! LOL!



its really funny that you use a quote from one of Obama's allies to prove your point and when I do the same and use a conservative quote to prove my point you say that the said conservative has no credibility and doesn't know what he is talking about....

case in point: when speaker of the house Boehner said that Obama did a great job handling the Egyptian crisis and that he was a legitimate citizen of the U.S...you stated that Boehner didn't know what he was talking about....can you imagine that???..BOEHNER>>>THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE>>>THIRD IN LINE TO THE PRESIDENCY>>DOESN"T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT?????????

I just keep tripping you up and owning you.....that is what this thread is about..its showing everyone your hypocrisy and exposing you as a dumbass know-nothing...

in that regard, this thread is a resounding success so far!!!

Fury

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK FAIRY CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2011, 09:31:21 PM »
its really funny that you use a quote from one of Obama's allies to prove your point and when I do the same and use a conservative quote to prove my point you say that the said conservative has no credibility and doesn't know what he is talking about....

case in point: when speaker of the house Boehner said that Obama did a great job handling the Egyptian crisis and that he was a legitimate citizen of the U.S...you stated that Boehner didn't know what he was talking about....can you imagine that???..BOEHNER>>>THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE>>>THIRD IN LINE TO THE PRESIDENCY>>DOESN"T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT?????????

I just keep tripping you up and owning you.....that is what this thread is about..its showing everyone your hypocrisy and exposing you as a dumbass know-nothing...

in that regard, this thread is a resounding success so far!!!

And? I hate to break it to you but I've been a registered independent since I turned 18. Thus I'm able to call Boehner an asshole when it fits and also criticize your leftist Gods when I feel like it. I don't blindly follow party lines like you fucking sheeple do.

Egypt has turned into a massive cluster-fuck and Boehner is right there with your God-King with egg on their faces.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2011, 11:12:36 PM »
Anybody know what ever came of this?

A top Senate Republican on Thursday accused the Obama administration of misleading taxpayers about General Motors' loan repayment, saying the struggling auto giant was only able to repay its bailout money by dipping into a separate pot of bailout money.

Sen. Chuck Grassley's charge was backed up by the inspector general for the bailout -- also known as the Trouble Asset Relief Program, or TARP. Watchdog Neil Barofsky told Fox News, as well as the Senate Finance Committee, that General Motors used bailout money to pay back the federal government.

"It appears to be nothing more than an elaborate TARP money shuffle," Grassley, the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, said in a letter Thursday to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.

GM announced Wednesday that it had paid back the $8.1 billion in loans it received from the U.S. and Canadian governments. Of that, $6.7 billion went to the U.S. treasury.

But Grassley said in his letter that a Securities and Exchange Commission form filed by GM showed that $6.7 billion of the tens of billions the company received was sitting in an escrow account and available to be used for repayment. He called on Geithner to provide more information about why the company was allowed to use bailout money to repay bailout money, and how much of the remaining escrow money GM would be allowed to keep.

"The bottom line seems to be that the TARP loans were 'repaid' with other TARP funds in a Treasury escrow account. The TARP loans were not repaid from money GM is earning selling cars, as GM and the administration have claimed in their speeches, press releases and television commercials," he wrote.

Vice President Biden on Wednesday called the GM repayment a "huge accomplishment."

But Barofsky told Fox News that while it's "somewhat good news," there's a big catch.  

"I think the one thing that a lot of people overlook with this is where they got the money to pay back the loan. And it isn't from earnings. ... It's actually from another pool of TARP money that they've already received," he said Wednesday. "I don't think we should exaggerate it too much. Remember that the source of this money is just other TARP money."

Barofsky told the Senate Finance Committee the same thing Tuesday, and said the main way for the federal government to earn money out of GM would be through "a liquidation of its ownership interest."

Grassley criticized this scenario in his letter.

"The taxpayers are still on the hook, and whether TARP funds are ultimately recovered depends entirely on the government's ability to sell GM stock in the future. Treasury has merely exchanged a legal right to repayment for an uncertain hope of sharing in the future growth of GM. A debt-for-equity swap is not a repayment," he wrote.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/22/grassley-slams-gm-administration-loans-repaid-bailout-money/#ixzz1OBtGLvxo


Soul Crusher

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Re: OBAMA'S ASS-KICKING OF BERZERK CONTINUES...saves auto industry
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2011, 04:23:05 AM »
The Inherently Ideological Evaluation of the GM Bailout
June 2, 2011 9:24 A.M. By Jim Manzi


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/268637/inherently-ideological-evaluation-gm-bailout-jim-manzi



   
Megan McArdle has done consistently excellent reported pieces on the GM bailout, and her recent evaluation of its net effect on the U.S. Treasury is no exception. Her bottom line is that the deal caused U.S. taxpayers to:

burn $10-20 billion in order to give the company another shot at life. To put that in perspective, GM had about 75,000 hourly workers before the bankruptcy. We could have given each of them a cool $250,000 and still come out well ahead compared to the ultimate cost of the bailout including the tax breaks

This is in line with the Obama administration’s $14 billion estimate of the net cost to the Treasury, as reported in the Wall Street Journal. If anything, I think this understates the case on the direct costs, because it does not consider other direct transfers of economic value like the government support for Delphi that inflated the value of the asset that GM sold to create a big chunk of their headline profits this past quarter, green-car development subsidies, and uncompensated interest costs on the government investment.

But no matter what realistic direct bailout costs you estimate, the objection of bailout defenders is that it is dwarfed by the other receipts or avoided expenditures created by the bailout. According to the Wall Street Journal, this is exactly the defense offered by the Obama administration:

The White House report said the money invested in GM and Chrysler ultimately saved the government tens of billions of dollars in direct and indirect costs, including the cost of unemployment insurance and lost tax receipts that the government would have incurred had the big Detroit auto makers collapsed.

There is a lot to this point, but it’s not really so simple. You can’t compare all of these net tax receipts (or more broadly, economic activity) to what would happen in “the world as it is today, minus GM.”

First, in the event of a bankruptcy, you don’t burn down the factories, erase all the source code on all the hard disks, make it illegal to use the brand name Chevrolet, and execute all of the employees. Others take ownership of the assets, and the employees go on with their lives. Some of these assets will be put to use generating revenues, profits, and taxes, and some of these former employees will get jobs or start businesses, and generate revenues, profits, and taxes. In order to measure the effect of the bailout over, say, five or ten years, you have to compare the actual taxes collected to what would happened over this same period in the counterfactual case where the bankruptcy was allowed to proceed. What owners would have bought the factories and IP assets, and what would they have done with them? What businesses would the former employees have started? Who would have moved to Arizona and retired? What new industry clusters will evolve in Arizona because of this transfer of people?

Second, some of the profit GM makes today would have been made by other companies that picked up some of the slack if the company lost market share after a bankruptcy. They would pay taxes on these profits, and as far as government receipts are concerned, money is money. How would auto industry structure evolve over time given whatever changes happened to the assets currently owned by the legal entity GM, or the employees currently paid by it?

Anybody who tells you they can answer all of these questions reliably is full of it.

And that doesn’t even start to get to the really long-run considerations of what effects this has on rule of law and moral hazard (or if you want to make the case for the bailout, social solidarity and degradation of the working class).

I hold the belief, quite strongly, that the net effect of the GM bailout will be negative. More precisely, I hold the belief that over a series of many such decisions, a mindset that would have been stringent enough not to have sanctioned the GM bailout is likely to lead to better overall economic outcomes for America. This belief is ideological — not in the sense that I just hold it for inexplicable reasons that cannot ever be changed by empirical analysis, but in the sense that I don’t believe that human beings currently have the capability to conduct the kind of analysis that should convince a rational observer to change his mind about the GM bailout in isolation from a more profound paradigm-shift-like change in his beliefs about the world.

The GM bailout is not an isolated case of this problem. And as I’ve argued many times, impressive-sounding empirical analysis is typically insufficient to measure the effect of important economic interventions like the stimulus program. If you can’t even measure what effect already-executed programs have had, how likely is it that you can predict the effects of future programs?

Acceptance of this degree of ignorance doesn’t cut equally against all ideological positions. It leads naturally to a call for decentralized decision-making, experiments, and entrepreneurial groping toward knowledge.