You can’t even comprehend what you’ve typed. Your answer for how things are judged was pretty much Bill Dobbins’s article. Are you Bill Dobbins? You didn’t ask me to tell you the definition of symmetry. You typed that you were interested in hearing my thoughts. I made fun of that. Dorian’s body lacked actual symmetry. He didn’t have 2 torn biceps. If you drew a line down the middle of Shawn’s body, each side looked almost identical. Dorian’s didn’t. Dorian’s body lacked the flow that Shawn’s had. This can also be referred to symmetry. What definition of symmetry do you think Dorian had over Shawn? Post a thread named Dorian had better symmetry than Shawn Ray and see what percentage agree. We both know that people that disagree will be the overwhelming majority.
I didn’t modify the question. You couldn’t answer it in the beginning and you still can’t.
What don’t I get? That you have no way to answer my questions and still prove your point?
He met some of the criteria. He was not the most symmetrical. He wasn’t the best conditioned a lot of times. He wasn’t the most muscular. He was near the top on a lot of the criteria. You still can’t explain how Dorian had perfect scores in a round where symmetry is key. The only argument here is how much you value each aspect. If someone is missing an arm but is the best at everything else, how much should the lack of an arm hurt them. How much should being the 10th best in a major judging category hurt their overall ranking?
Say I want to discuss something, why would I go to a near illiterate person who can’t comprehend what he’s typed or make a point to save his life? It has also probably become rather obvious to you that you could be right in almost anything but due to your inferior ability to debate, fail to prove any point.
Who posted the Dobbins article because you obviously don’t agree with it. His stance was that while everything may be judged in every round, the first round that is referred to as the symmetry round by many is called that because in the relaxed poses asymmetry and imbalances are harder to obscure. By the way muscle dryness would be in reference to a dehydrated muscle which would be flat and probably show little detail. Is this what you mean? I don’t think it is. This is just another example of you lacking articulation needed for a debate. You have to type exactly what you mean.
You keep typing that he satisfied all of the criteria better yet you can’t conceed that he obviously didn’t have the best symmetry. Without this you pretty much lose anyone that was going to agree with you. It shows that you refuse to see the truth.
Dorian doesn’t have better balance or proportions than Shawn, Kevin or Flex. His physique lacked their flow. Why is it that people look at Shawn and think that his physique looks better than Dorian’s? I’m not really even saying that Dorian didn’t deserve to win some of the time. What I’m saying is that his symmetry wasn’t ranked anywhere close to that and in a round where his flaws were extremely obvious, he should not have been ranked where he was. Some of the years he probably could overcome his weaknesses but pretending he didn’t have the weaknesses compared to these competitors isn’t being truthful.
You can’t even comprehend what you’ve typed. Your answer for how things are judged was pretty much Bill Dobbins’s article. Are you Bill Dobbins? You didn’t ask me to tell you the definition of symmetry. You typed that you were interested in hearing my thoughts. I made fun of that. Dorian’s body lacked actual symmetry. He didn’t have 2 torn biceps. If you drew a line down the middle of Shawn’s body, each side looked almost identical. Dorian’s didn’t. Dorian’s body lacked the flow that Shawn’s had. This can also be referred to symmetry. What definition of symmetry do you think Dorian had over Shawn? Post a thread named Dorian had better symmetry than Shawn Ray and see what percentage agree. We both know that people that disagree will be the overwhelming majority.
No my answer for how things are judged wasn't only the Bill Dobbin's article , I also mentioned the IFBB judging criteria obviously with your comprehension issues you missed that as well. I bet you never even seen it so allow me
When assessing a competitor’s physique, a judge should follow a
routine procedure which will allow a comprehensive assessment of
the physique as a whole. During the comparisons of the
compulsory poses, the judge should first look at the primary
muscle group being displayed. The judge should then survey the
whole physique, starting from the head, and looking at every part
of the physique in a downward sequence, beginning with general
impressions, and looking for muscular bulk, balanced
development, muscular density and definition. The downward
survey should take in the head, neck, shoulders, chest, all of the
arm muscles, front of the trunk for pectorals, pec-delt tie-in,
abdominals, waist, thighs, legs, calves and feet. The same
procedure for back poses will also take in the upper and lower
trapezius, teres and infraspinatus, erector spinae, the gluteus
group, the leg biceps group at the back of the thighs, calves, and
feet. A detailed assessment of the various muscle groups should
be made during the comparisons, at which time it helps the judge
to compare muscle shape, density, and definition while still
bearing in mind the competitor’s overall balanced development.
The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.
Front Double Biceps (see Figure 1)
Standing face front to the judges, with the legs and feet
in-line and a short distance apart, the competitor will raise
both arms to shoulder level and bend them at the elbows.
The hands should be clenched and turned down so as to
cause a contraction of the biceps and forearm muscles,
which are the main muscle groups that are to be assessed
in this pose. In addition, the competitor should attempt
to contract as many other muscles as possible as the
judges will be surveying the whole physique, from head to
toe.
The judge will first survey the biceps muscles looking for a
full, peaked development of the muscle, noting whether
or not there is a defined split between the anterior and
posterior sections of the biceps, and will continue the
head-to-toe survey by observing the development of the
forearms, deltoids, pectorals, pec-delt tie-ins, abdominals,
thighs, and calves. The judge will also look for muscle
density, definition, and overall balance.
Front Lat Spread (see Figure 2)
Standing face front to the judges, with the legs and feet a
short distance apart, the competitor will place the open
hands, or clenched fists, against, or gripping, the lower
waist or obliques and will expand the latissimus muscles.
At the same time, the competitor should attempt to
contract as many other frontal muscles as possible. It
shall be strictly forbidden for the competitor to pull up on
the posing trunks so as to show the top inside of the
quadriceps.
The judge should first see whether the competitor can
show a good spread of the latissimus muscles, thereby
creating a V-shaped torso. Then the judge should
continue with the head-to-foot survey, noting first the
general aspectsof the physique and then concentrating on
the more detailed aspects of the various muscle groups.
3. Side Chest (see Figure 3)
The competitor may choose either side for this pose, in
order to display the “better” arm. He will stand with his
left or right side towards the judges and will bend the arm
nearest the judges to a right-angle position, with the fist
clenched and, with the other hand, will grasp the wrist.
The leg nearest the judges will be bent at the knee and
will rest on the toes. The competitor will then expand the
chest and by upward pressure of the front bent arm and
contract the biceps as much as possible. He will also
contract the thigh muscles, in particular, the biceps
femoris group, and by downward pressure on his toes,
will display the contracted calf muscles.
The judge will pay particular attention to the pectoral
muscles and the arch of the rib cage, the biceps, the leg
biceps and the calves, and will conclude with the head-tofoot
examination. In this pose the judge will be able to
survey the thigh and calf muscles in profile, which will
help in grading their comparative development more
accurately.
Back Double Biceps (see Figure 4)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
bend the arms and wrists as in the Front Double Biceps
pose, and will place one foot back, resting on the toes.
He will then contract the arm muscles as well as the
muscles of the shoulders, upper and lower back, thigh
and calf muscles.
The judge will first survey the arm muscles and then do
the head-to-foot survey, during which there are more
muscle groups to look at than in all of the other poses.
This includes the neck, deltoids, biceps, triceps, forearm,
trapezius, teres, infraspinatus, erector spinae, external
obliques, latissimus dorsi, gluteus, thigh biceps, and
calves. This pose, probably more than the others, will
help the judge to determine the quality of the
competitor’s muscle density, definition, and overall
balance.
Back Lat Spread (see Figure 5)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
place his hands on his waist with his elbows kept wide,
one foot back and resting on the toes. He will then
contract the latissimus dorsi as wide as possible and
display a calf contraction by pressing downward on the
rear toes. The competitor should make an effort to
display the opposite calf to that which was displayed
during the back double biceps pose so the the judge may
assess both calf muscle equally. It shall be strictly
forbidden for the competitor to pull up on the posing
trunks so as to show the gluteus maximus muscles.
The judge will look for a good spread of the latissimus
dorsi, but also for good muscle density and will again
conclude with the head-to-foot survey.
6. Side Triceps (see Figure 6)
The competitor may choose either side for this pose so as
to show the “better” arm. He will stand with his left or
right side towards the judges and will place both arms
behind his back, either linking his fingers or grasping the
front arm by the wrist with his rear hand. The leg nearest
the judges will be bent at the knee and the foot will rest
flat on the floor. The competitor will exert pressure
against his front arm, thereby causing the triceps muscle
to contract. He will also raise the chest and contract the
abdominal muscles as well as the thigh and calf muscles.
The judge will first survey the triceps muscles, and
conclude with the head-to-foot examination. In this pose,
the judge will be able to survey the thigh and calf muscles
in profile, which will help in grading their comparative
development more accurately.
Abdominals and Thighs (see Figure 7)
Standing face front to the judges, the competitor will
place both arms behind the head and will place one leg
forward. He will then contract the abdominal muscles by
55
“crunching” the trunk slightly forward. At the same time,
he will contract the thigh muscles of the forward leg.
The judge will survey the abdominal and thigh muscles,
and then conclude with the head-to-foot examination. Dorian’s body lacked actual symmetry. He didn’t have 2 torn biceps. If you drew a line down the middle of Shawn’s body, each side looked almost identical. Dorian’s didn’t. Dorian’s body lacked the flow that Shawn’s had. This can also be referred to symmetry. What definition of symmetry do you think Dorian had over Shawn? Post a thread named Dorian had better symmetry than Shawn Ray and see what percentage agree. We both know that people that disagree will be the overwhelming majority.
[/quote]
actually symmetry? your definition of actual symmetry is left/right exactness? LMFAO
first thing you need to know sport is NOTHING in nature is truly symmetrical. and I especially love that lame default position of ' flow ' hehehehehehehe spoken like someone who doesn't know anything about ' symmetry ' in the bodybuilding context , you need to do some more research because the more you type the more you're exposing how little you know
And your proof that Shawn had better symmetry is ad populum? and I'm not saying that Dorian does have better ' symmetry ' per sa but your proof he does it popular opinion? more faulty logic on your behalf lol I'm gonna play Devil's advocate for you , Shawn could have better symmetry than Dorian and still lose the symmetry round , shall I explain to you again why?
I didn’t modify the question. You couldn’t answer it in the beginning and you still can’t.
Sure you did and I already answered how height comes into play
What don’t I get? That you have no way to answer my questions and still prove your point?
What don't you get? how contests are judged for starters , how Dorian can win the symmetry round , what symmetry is , what the IFBB judging criteria is , how to apply it , how to comprehend what is being typed , there is a LOT you don't get
He met some of the criteria. He was not the most symmetrical. He wasn’t the best conditioned a lot of times. He wasn’t the most muscular. He was near the top on a lot of the criteria. You still can’t explain how Dorian had perfect scores in a round where symmetry is key. The only argument here is how much you value each aspect. If someone is missing an arm but is the best at everything else, how much should the lack of an arm hurt them. How much should being the 10th best in a major judging category hurt their overall ranking?
You just proved my point again lmfao there is NO round where symmetry is key , where symmetry is judged as a sole entity. boy and I thought Hulkster was thick. Dorian was never lacking an ' arm ' for starters one bicep was shorter than another and I might agree that Dorian was never the most ' symmetrical ' depending on the context , and he wasn't the best conditioned?
boy you are digging yourself deeper and deeper , it's astounding how little you know yet are so positive in your ignorance lol and he wasn't the most muscular?
the best part of all your gross overstatements is they are just declarations with no explanation or elaboration what so ever , of wait is this the part where I know have to ask you to explain yourself? or should he just take your
ignorant expert opinion on the subject?
Say I want to discuss something, why would I go to a near illiterate person who can’t comprehend what he’s typed or make a point to save his life? It has also probably become rather obvious to you that you could be right in almost anything but due to your inferior ability to debate, fail to prove any point.
More fluff no substance
I'm starting to see a pattern here
Who posted the Dobbins article because you obviously don’t agree with it. His stance was that while everything may be judged in every round, the first round that is referred to as the symmetry round by many is called that because in the relaxed poses asymmetry and imbalances are harder to obscure. By the way muscle dryness would be in reference to a dehydrated muscle which would be flat and probably show little detail. Is this what you mean? I don’t think it is. This is just another example of you lacking articulation needed for a debate. You have to type exactly what you mean.
I posted it to show YOU how there is NO round that judges symmetry alone and when knowing that ALL ROUNDS ARE PHYSIQUE ROUNDS it's easy to see how and why Dorian won this round despite you point that he shouldn't. And it doesn't matter what the round is called it is NOT the only thing being judged , get this through your head. And muscle dryness would be a reference to dehydrated muscle which would be flat?
at first I thought you were just a gimmick looking to troll but then I thought maybe you're not but the absurdity of your comments can only draw one conclusion
if you're not a gimmick and actually believe this nonsense
I'm trying to figure out which is worse
' dryness probably shows little detail '
You keep typing that he satisfied all of the criteria better yet you can’t conceed that he obviously didn’t have the best symmetry. Without this you pretty much lose anyone that was going to agree with you. It shows that you refuse to see the truth.
He wouldn't need the best symmetry to beat the guys who did , and go learn what symmetry is while you're at it because it's obvious you're trying to learn on the fly with your Google searches
Dorian rarely had the best ' symmetry ' and always won the symmetry rounds with straight firsts I'm better with your limited abilities you still can't comprehend why. he was almost ( according to you ) never the most muscular , or best conditioned and his symmetry sucked , this begs the question . HOW THE FUCK DID HE DOMINATE THE SPORT FOR YEARS ON END? Oh I know according to you it was a ' gift ' from judges who wanted to keep a certain type of physique haahhahahaha and you have the audacity to claim I don't know how to argue? hehehehehehehe
Dorian doesn’t have better balance or proportions than Shawn, Kevin or Flex. His physique lacked their flow. Why is it that people look at Shawn and think that his physique looks better than Dorian’s? I’m not really even saying that Dorian didn’t deserve to win some of the time. What I’m saying is that his symmetry wasn’t ranked anywhere close to that and in a round where his flaws were extremely obvious, he should not have been ranked where he was. Some of the years he probably could overcome his weaknesses but pretending he didn’t have the weaknesses compared to these competitors isn’t being truthful.
He doesn't have better balance & proportions than Shawn , Kevin or Flex? ( more blanket statements with NO elaboration of points you have nerve saying I don't know how to argue lol ) we'll just take your word he doesn't
and there it is again , the old ' flow ' hahahahahaha , people look at Shawn and his physique is more aesthetically pleasing so they feel he should have won despite is flaws and despite not meeting ALL of the criteria better than Dorian , it doesn't matter what people feel , like you , they don't know how contests are judged and base everything on how they feel , emotions don't dictate contests kid you still have a ton to learn
And I never once pretended that he didn't have any weaknesses compared to his competition , once again you're arguing a point NO ONE ever made , I'm explaining that despite his flaws he can still beat them by satisfying more of the criteria better than the rest , a concept you still can't grasp. Now how about the fact that the high and low scores are toss out? I better you knew this too
knowing this as well it would make you comprehend a little better how Dorian can still dominate ( Google that one too
)
We've established you don't have the slightest clue on how contests are judged and jumped to conclusions before knowing actual facts , you committed yourself way to early and ended up looking really stupid in the process , now you're embarrassed because you're in over your head and are trying desperately to save face , it's not working. You're a proud man but pride isn't going to save you from the ridiculous statements you're typing but hey have at it , I made a GetBig career out of exposing ignorant people just ask Hulkster
