True definition of breaking through a plateau

[BILL ANVIL]

Yeah, i'm natural too.  19 years.

However, this thread isn't about telling one's story.  It is a question for GH15.

Let's go GH..  answer the question.

You've been busting ass in the gym eating 6 times a day for 19 years, or just been "working out" for 19 years?

[coltrane]

You've been busting ass in the gym eating 6 times a day for 19 years, or just been "working out" for 19 years?

The first five or so years no attention to diet.   Then after that, I got on the bandwagon and paid attention to diet.  That is when my physique made progress.

[Coach is Back!]

There's a difference between actual training and "working out".

[coltrane]

There's a difference between actual training and "working out".

If youre trying to be a techical smart ass, point made.  

I train.  I work-out.  I lift weights.  I bodybuild.  I pay attention to diet. 

i don't compete on stage.

[coltrane]

So what's your stats? Height, weight, % bodyfat? Height and weight and easily determined and not really left up for dispute, but % bodyfat is a whole different story. Case in point, maybe you think that you are sitting at sub-6, when in fact you are actually 8-9%

I'm def not below 6%.  I'm probably hovering around 12%. 

Right now 215 pounds, 6 foot. 
I've posted pics numerous times and was declared a steroid user by GH.  A guy that doesn't know me at all.  That's why I get pissed (along with a few other hard working lifters on here).  He makes blanket assumptions.

[coltrane]

In sum, there is quite a lot a person can do in terms of building a great physique without steroids.  The components are:

--training hard and smart
--knowing your body and it's nutrition
--consistency
--time

There are so many prime examples of great physiques out there that haven't been saturated with hormones.

[Coach is Back!]

It wasn't aimed toward you. Just saying there is a difference. Not trying to be a smartass.

[GroinkTropin]

Ha.  Look at all the GH15 disciples coming to his aid.  Bunch of brainwashed drug addicts.

There are natural competitions out there which are drug tested.  And there are people out there that don't take steroids and have good builds.

True. Post up a few, let me see who you think is natty and who isn't. Curious.

[youngbb31]

In sum, there is quite a lot a person can do in terms of building a great physique without steroids.  The components are:

--training hard and smart
--knowing your body and it's nutrition
--consistency
--time

There are so many prime examples of great physiques out there that haven't been saturated with hormones.

All true and good points, however, you will one day reach a plateau of gaining lean muscle and it will be like the great wall of china lol...meaning theres no knocking it down. TRUE bodybuilding is knowing these essentials as you pointed out and a mix of drugs (just being real) that is if you want to compete, if not, sure you can still have a good physique 

[gh15]

All true and good points, however, you will one day reach a plateau of gaining lean muscle and it will be like the great wall of china lol...meaning theres no knocking it down. TRUE bodybuilding is knowing these essentials as you pointed out and a mix of drugs (just being real) that is if you want to compete, if not, sure you can still have a good physique 

and if you dont know when your time is to get on the hormone train,,,and you play with the natural balonie ,,,you can burn out ,,you will go for years 2-3 maybe more stuck ,,some go 5-6 years before they realize and brave enough...like you need ot be breave lol ,,to get hormones

natural has limits,,hormonized has limits too ,,look at jason he cant grow no matter hwat he does now,,philsulina is also maxed you will see,,so there is a point that only thing that grow is the gut,,

some true naturals ,,that been to halodrol lol ,,well i consider them natural since im nuts most wouldnt consider them natural ,,but some of those look very good WHEN PUMPED,,for about 10 minutes if low body fat,,they really can give the illusion of juiced up lol UNTIL they turn to the side ways lol ,,but again natural usualy will do anything to enhance his look ,,he will have no life,,he will have no social life,,he will have to have his meals on the sot on the spot all the time unless get into flat land so fast its nto even funny,,and to begin with even if they eat all the time they are flat if nto pumped,,they cant have any stress ,,they got to sleep right,,they got to train right,,they got to do everything to the t inorder ot look good for 10 min when pumped IF LEAN ENOUGH,,

the fact that you went to tann yourself for a month  doesnt mean you imrpoved your natural physiqe.....you still same only more tann ,,the fact you lost few lbs of water and fat  doesnt mean you grew as a natural since your weight loss will be ON THE SCALE,,you will be down to 178 and yes leaner looking but you wont be able to be that lean if you remained your 184lb...

natural bodybuild is nto a nice site lol

gh15 approved

[disco_stu]

gh15 is an idiot- period.

ive trained with guys who are naturals and one fella always complained that he found it hard to put on mass cos he was so naturally lean- im talking 6 pack abs, striations and veins all over...not a huge guy but no slouch either...we measured him at 6% bfat year round. he ran track in the summer. never ever touched a steroid in his life.

then theres others who do it as a lifestyle and dont compete and they are solid, well built guys who are accused of as steroid heads regularly...they love it!...never touched a steroid ever.

then theres junior state level comps with drug free guys winning and sporting decent physiques who again get accused and never have used..WAY over the GH15 "limits"...then there's professional athletes in contact sports with serious drug testing regimes like AFL that spend most of their year running loads of miles and in the off season pumping weights who also weigh outside of the gh15 "limits". The evidence is all around for everyone to see...but if you take a logical approach you are accused of being naive and not having any real life experience.

finally, why would anyone give this pin cushion any credibility when his background is amongst drug dealers, liars, drama queens, narcissists and scams and he has absolutely no education or credentials "otherwise"?

in any other situation he'd be laughed at and told to go back to the fruit picking line- or assembly line- and keep lifting those panels, picking the fruit or pressing the buttons and let the adults do the important stuff.

[gh15]

Hahahaha... This is the most bizarre post I've ever seen!! WTF are you trying to say?!? 

lol ,,he is bizzare indeed lol

gh15 approved

[nosleep]

how big was he disco stu?

probably under the criteria that gh15 said has absolit natural limits...U DUMB FUCKING IDIOT.

[gh15]

gh15 is an idiot- period.

ive trained with guys who are naturals and one fella always complained that he found it hard to put on mass cos he was so naturally lean- im talking 6 pack abs, striations and veins all over...not a huge guy but no slouch either...we measured him at 6% bfat year round. he ran track in the summer. never ever touched a steroid in his life.

then theres others who do it as a lifestyle and dont compete and they are solid, well built guys who are accused of as steroid heads regularly...they love it!...never touched a steroid ever.

then theres junior state level comps with drug free guys winning and sporting decent physiques who again get accused and never have used..WAY over the GH15 "limits"...then there's professional athletes in contact sports with serious drug testing regimes like AFL that spend most of their year running loads of miles and in the off season pumping weights who also weigh outside of the gh15 "limits". The evidence is all around for everyone to see...but if you take a logical approach you are accused of being naive and not having any real life experience.

finally, why would anyone give this pin cushion any credibility when his background is amongst drug dealers, liars, drama queens, narcissists and scams and he has absolutely no education or credentials "otherwise"?

in any other situation he'd be laughed at and told to go back to the fruit picking line- or assembly line- and keep lifting those panels, picking the fruit or pressing the buttons and let the adults do the important stuff.

welcome to the movie .....


UTOPIA ,,

written  directed and produced by the one and only


disco spilberstu

gh15 approved

[cephissus]

suckmymuscle's wet dream was stolen from him using elaborate technology, for the purpose of funding the R&D costs of this very same tech -- behold:

[nosleep]

HOW ABOUT WHEN YOU PLATEAU, U WORK YOUR WAY DOWN A BIT. TAKE HALF A STEP BACK NOT A FULL, THEN TAKE TWO STEP FORWARDS.

lets say you plateau'd on 500mg test a week at about 200lbs...work down to about 250mg test for 3-4 months, you'll lose some weight and when you do, then go back up. i've noticed great gains like that. I've tried to go off and just get back on when it's time, but i hate becoming soft. soft is for pussies.

GO 500MG FOR LIKE 3 MONTHS, PLATEAU...BY THE END OF MONTH 6 IM AT 250MG, AND I START GETTING SOFTER, THEN BOOM GO TO 350, 425, 500 IN LIKE 3-4 WEEK INTERVALS AND bada bing bada boom!

[mesmorph78]

gh15 is an idiot- period.

this
totally irational....
lets examine his logic (or lack of) he has a set formula of what a natural bb falls under...
he sees someone that falls outside of that bracket ... straight away they are a liar and on drugs....
??... so he made the rules on whats natural we are to assume...
and you have idiots who actually follow this gimmick....
even if he turns out to be a pro... which makes no difference to me
he is a complete idiot.
..
thats all
mes

[youngbb31]

and if you dont know when your time is to get on the hormone train,,,and you play with the natural balonie ,,,you can burn out ,,you will go for years 2-3 maybe more stuck ,,some go 5-6 years before they realize and brave enough...like you need ot be breave lol ,,to get hormones

natural has limits,,hormonized has limits too ,,look at jason he cant grow no matter hwat he does now,,philsulina is also maxed you will see,,so there is a point that only thing that grow is the gut,,

some true naturals ,,that been to halodrol lol ,,well i consider them natural since im nuts most wouldnt consider them natural ,,but some of those look very good WHEN PUMPED,,for about 10 minutes if low body fat,,they really can give the illusion of juiced up lol UNTIL they turn to the side ways lol ,,but again natural usualy will do anything to enhance his look ,,he will have no life,,he will have no social life,,he will have to have his meals on the sot on the spot all the time unless get into flat land so fast its nto even funny,,and to begin with even if they eat all the time they are flat if nto pumped,,they cant have any stress ,,they got to sleep right,,they got to train right,,they got to do everything to the t inorder ot look good for 10 min when pumped IF LEAN ENOUGH,,

the fact that you went to tann yourself for a month  doesnt mean you imrpoved your natural physiqe.....you still same only more tann ,,the fact you lost few lbs of water and fat  doesnt mean you grew as a natural since your weight loss will be ON THE SCALE,,you will be down to 178 and yes leaner looking but you wont be able to be that lean if you remained your 184lb...

natural bodybuild is nto a nice site lol

gh15 approved

Agreed on all points. You know my story. 5'10 TRUE natural couldnt push past 185 ...now im leaned down bc like u said with true natural if everything not to the T which i havent been im leaner now the past 2 months i went to 176.


OH...and i got brave for the first time today wit some gooood ol test prop

[Jaime]

Agreed on all points. You know my story. 5'10 TRUE natural couldnt push past 185 ...now im leaned down bc like u said with true natural if everything not to the T which i havent been im leaner now the past 2 months i went to 176.


OH...and i got brave for the first time today wit some gooood ol test prop

You couldn't do it, i guess that means no one can.

What do you bench? i want to know what the limit for tht is too ty.

[el numero uno]

 The only way for you to have huge muscles permanently and without jeopardizing your health is with gorilla genetics. A Human will always return to being a Human once steroids are removed, as the steroids changes your entire physiology and makes you synthesize protein beyond what Human genetics allows Human to. A gorilla sits down eating leaves and bark all day with the occasional termites and ants, and yet it carries twice the lean muscle mass of a drugged out pro at 500 lbs, and even at this bodyweight a gorilla has only 5% bodyfat. Now you could argue that getting elephant genetics would be even better, but this is not the case because elephants are too disimilar from Humans, and their genes for size are not compatible with Humans. Gorillas are the answer to all bodybuilders' plights.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Lol

[Largerthanlife]

HOW ABOUT WHEN YOU PLATEAU, U WORK YOUR WAY DOWN A BIT. TAKE HALF A STEP BACK NOT A FULL, THEN TAKE TWO STEP FORWARDS.

lets say you plateau'd on 500mg test a week at about 200lbs...work down to about 250mg test for 3-4 months, you'll lose some weight and when you do, then go back up. i've noticed great gains like that. I've tried to go off and just get back on when it's time, but i hate becoming soft. soft is for pussies.

GO 500MG FOR LIKE 3 MONTHS, PLATEAU...BY THE END OF MONTH 6 IM AT 250MG, AND I START GETTING SOFTER, THEN BOOM GO TO 350, 425, 500 IN LIKE 3-4 WEEK INTERVALS AND bada bing bada boom!

your going to stay small but good pump if you use those kind of mg's, need to go big eventually, that is serious beginner stuff.

[youngbb31]

You couldn't do it, i guess that means no one can.

What do you bench? i want to know what the limit for tht is too ty.

Bench? wtf does that matter this is bodybuild not powerlifting I am pretty strong though for my size do 100 db's for like 10 reps ..and I didn't say nobody could pass that weight...please tell me where I said that. Anyone can gain weight...thats a matter of cals..not everyone can gain lean muscle mass and if you don't realize that then you don't realize anything i'm done talking.

[no one]

I've mentioned this before but I think it's worth mentioning again. Back in the 1980s when aas was legal and you could get them from a doctor one of the main doctors at the time, Dr. Walzak (sp?), who had an office in Sherman Oaks and catered to all the major bodybuilders from Redondo Beach on up North, whereas that other more famous Dr. (I forget his name lol) took care of everybody in Orange County on South, gave an informal seminar in our gym regarding steroids. He was very good friends with the owner of our gym in Torrance, CA, Mr. Barlow. I was pretty naive at the time and it was only years later that I found out they were a couple of old queens deep in the schmoe business.

His protocol was that you need at the very least, 3 years of hard serious training, but preferred five years. Obviously, if you start at 12 years old he doesn't believe you should be on hormones at 17 yrs. but gave an ideal as someone who starts at say 14-15 and trains consistently and seriously. Then by the time he's 19-20 he's ready to see him. He believe that if you know what you are doing and train correctly and get the proper rest and nutrition you will max out muscle size wise after about at most five years though most max out sooner. You can make dramatic changes in body weight but very little in actual muscle.

Someone asked him about cycling. How long one should stay on AAS before going off and allowing the body to "normalize." He kind of smiled and said that you stay on for as long as you want to keep on growing. "But what about this 6-8 week cycles and then taking 6-8 weeks off to allow your body to "fire back up" it's nature production and allow the "receptors" to "freshen" up?" He just shook his head and said nonsense.

He put it like this: Say you are at a certain weight, maybe 180 lbs, and you maintain that weight eating 2,500 calories a day. If you want to gain weight you have to increase those calories. And say you increase those calories by 1000 your weight will increase up to a point, say 200 lbs before it stabilizes. Now if you "cycle" and go back down to 2,500 calories your weight will slowly drop back down to your original 180 lbs. You have to maintain that new 3,500 calories if you want to maintain the 200 lb body weight. Now if you want to continue to gain more you then have to increase your calories even further.

Though he admitted it wasn't a perfect analogy he really wanted to drive home the point that even under idea conditions you will reach a natural limit in muscle size fairly quickly. If you want to increase muscle mass after reaching your natural limit you have to take AAS. And taking a certain amount will get you to a certain size tough it varies among individuals. When you go off, or cycle, you will simply go back down to your original nature limit of muscle size just like your weight will go back down to 180 lbs when you go back down to your original 2,500 caloric intake. He pointed out that it doesn't necessarily mean you will lose weight, though eventually you will, but that you will lose muscle size. That's what is happening when trainees say that they maintain their body weight, even most of their strength, when off they just get softer. It really means that they are slowly losing muscle and the softness comes from the increase fat due to the caloric intake not being reduced.

So he believed that if you want to go this route you better be willing to be in it for the long haul because you should never go off. He believed that cycling was actually bad for the body. The constant hormonal fluctuations. You either decide you want to be an enhance bodybuilder and exceed your natural limits or stay a natural and accept your natural limits. If you want to continue to grow beyond your natural limits you have to take anabolic compounds and when you go off you will lose all your gains eventually.

And just like you will reach a sticking point in weight at a certain caloric surplus and have to further increase caloric consumption if you want to gain still more weight. You will also reach a sticking point at a certain level of anabolic dosage and will have to increase that dosage if you want to make further gains.

In summary, once you have training, nutrition and rest down pat and know what you are doing you will reach a nature limit very fast. And it won't be much. He estimated maybe 20 pounds at most for someone around 5'9 or 5'10. This is 20 pounds of real lean muscle tissue. After that it's how much anabolics you ingest.

Now this was back in the early 1980s, I think it was 1983, where everybody talked in terms of cycling, as they still do now. But he was pretty clear: adding anabolic compounds is absolutely necessary to increase muscle growth beyond normal levels, increase dosage if you want to get larger, and you will start to lose muscle when you go off no matter what you do and eventually lose everything if you go off completely. And off course caloric intake and training is a given.  

His starting protocol was 200mg of Deca and 3 Ciba dianabol tablets, 15mg/day. He did recommend cycling orals only because of liver health. And you just go from there. No testosterona was mentioned.      

good post sir. thank you for typing that up.

[BILL ANVIL]

 The only way for you to have huge muscles permanently and without jeopardizing your health is with gorilla genetics. A Human will always return to being a Human once steroids are removed, as the steroids changes your entire physiology and makes you synthesize protein beyond what Human genetics allows Human to. A gorilla sits down eating leaves and bark all day with the occasional termites and ants, and yet it carries twice the lean muscle mass of a drugged out pro at 500 lbs, and even at this bodyweight a gorilla has only 5% bodyfat. Now you could argue that getting elephant genetics would be even better, but this is not the case because elephants are too disimilar from Humans, and their genes for size are not compatible with Humans. Gorillas are the answer to all bodybuilders' plights.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

You must be either stoned outta your damn tree or a couple cans short of a six pack, but I get what your saying.  

Gorillas rule the jungle, dawg. ftw

[nosleep]

your going to stay small but good pump if you use those kind of mg's, need to go big eventually, that is serious beginner stuff.

IM 20 YEARS OLD. BEEN DOING THIS SHIT FOR 8 MONTHS NOW.

IVE GONE FROM 250MG UP TO 500MG, BACK DOWN TO 250MG, AND ON MY WAY UP AGAIN..NOW AT 350MG TEST. ALL HUMAN GRADE TESTOSTERONA...LOVIN IT.

THINK I SHOULD UP THE DOSE?

I WAS THINKING OF INSTEAD ADDING SOME OF THAT NORDIC GH BUT CANNOT FIND IT SO I MAY GET RIPTROPIN. 4IU DAY AND WORK MY WAY UP.

PREFER TO STICK TO TESTOSTERONA, GH, PROVIRON, AND SOME MASTERON. I DO THIS FIRST AND FOREMOST TO POUND VAGINA, LOOK FUCKING AWESOME, AND THATS ABOUT IT. SO MY DICKS GOTTA BE IN TOP SHAPE 24/7, 365. IDK HOW ILL REACT TO NANDRONOLA OR TRENBOLONA....CANT GO LIMP.

ADD 4IU OR GO UP TO 600MG?