3 of 10 employers will stop offering health care benes due to ObamaCare by 2014

[Straw Man]

First look at how Article I Section 8 is written. It starts out with a broad statement then goes on the enumerate the powers after the initial sentence.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

The Framers were not stupid and knew how the initial though could be interpreted to mean other than what it was intended, so they made it clear.

I see nothing that prevents us from providing a mechanism for affordable health care


Again, I can make the argument that a healhty population is essential for the common defense and general welfare of the country

[Soul Crusher]

That is why I said 2500% or $2500 dipshit.  

Either way - he was lying, i wrong, and businesses across the board are getting massive premium increases.  

No matter how you spin this turn - its a fail for the messiah.  

[Soul Crusher]

I see nothing that prevents us from providing a mechanism for affordable health care


Again, I can make the argument that a healhty population is essential for the common defense and general welfare of the country

    

Obamacare did and does no such thing.   

[kcballer]

Like i said.  It does not make sense for employment and insurance to go hand in hand.  It's not good for either party.  

I'm not a fan of the current health care legislation, although i do believe it is better than the zero we had before.  I am holding out for single payer coverage for all.  With no employer paying for it.  

[Straw Man]

That is why I said 2500% or $2500 dipshit. 
Either way - he was lying, i wrong, and businesses across the board are getting massive premium increases.  

No matter how you spin this turn - its a fail for the messiah.  

he didn't say either of those things and he corrected an obvious "mispeak" the very next day

only people who are willfully stupid would think it's relevent

[Straw Man]

    

Obamacare did and does no such thing.   

how would you know

almost none of it has gone into effect yet

[Straw Man]

Like i said.  It does not make sense for employment and insurance to go hand in hand.  It's not good for either party.  

I'm not a fan of the current health care legislation, although i do believe it is better than the zero we had before.  I am holding out for single payer coverage for all.  With no employer paying for it.  

it's not good for our country when we're trying to compete economically with businesses in other countries who don't have the burden of providing health care for their employees.

You'd think the so called business savvy Repubs would be all over that one

[Soul Crusher]

it's not good for our country when we're trying to compete economically with businesses in other countries who don't have the burden of providing health care for their employees.

You'd think the so called business savvy Repubs would be all over that one

The messiah spent the first 1 1/2 years o the turn sandwich called obamacare.     this is on him.  He could have went a different rout.   Stop trying to blame everyone else.   

[Straw Man]

The messiah spent the first 1 1/2 years o the turn sandwich called obamacare.     this is on him.  He could have went a different rout.   Stop trying to blame everyone else.   

wtf ?

where in my post do you see me blaming someone/anyone  ?

I beginning to think it's not willful ignorance on your part and just plain old fashioned ignorance

[Soul Crusher]

wtf ?

where in my post do you see me blaming someone/anyone  ?

I beginning to think it's not willful ignorance on your part and just plain old fashioned ignorance

Obama took an already bad situation and made it far worse with healthcare.   He did the worst of both worlds.   If you want to argue single payor, medicare for all, fine that is a debate worth having.   

If you want to argue complete deregulation, etc etc, fine, that a diferent argument.   


However, that is not what he did.   He put into place a complicated mess that drives prices even higher, already has been forced to give out 2000 waivers, and is causing chos in the healthcare and employment market.   

[Kazan]

I see nothing that prevents us from providing a mechanism for affordable health care


Again, I can make the argument that a healhty population is essential for the common defense and general welfare of the country

What is it you don't understand about enumerated powers? Why is it OK in Mass, because of the 10th Amendment that's why.

[Kazan]

Like i said.  It does not make sense for employment and insurance to go hand in hand.  It's not good for either party.  

I'm not a fan of the current health care legislation, although i do believe it is better than the zero we had before.  I am holding out for single payer coverage for all.  With no employer paying for it.  

Again why? Healthcare is no one's responsibility but your own. It is a BENEFIT not a right, and as pointed out above it is not an enumerated power of the federal government. So we just ignore the constitution when it suits our interests? That's worked out great so far

[MB]

Healthcare shouldn't be tied to employers or insurance companies.  It is your own responsibility.  BTW, costs would drastically decrease if it went back to just a patient/doctor system. 

[tonymctones]

it's not good for our country when we're trying to compete economically with businesses in other countries who don't have the burden of providing health care for their employees.

You'd think the so called business savvy Repubs would be all over that one

from the fan boy of the ppl who want to raise corporate taxes even though we are the nation with the 2nd highest corporate taxes in the world...

[Fury]

US Healthcare system is completely broken so let's add another 30 million people into it and not address any of the massive problems underlying it. That is SURE to work out. Really.

[Straw Man]

from the fan boy of the ppl who want to raise corporate taxes even though we are the nation with the 2nd highest corporate taxes in the world...

we could just close the tax loopholes so that companies like GE pay their fair share rather than paying NOTHING

[Skip8282]

I see nothing that prevents us from providing a mechanism for affordable health care


Again, I can make the argument that a healhty population is essential for the common defense and general welfare of the country

That's not the argument you need to make.  You need to show that it can be applied via the commerce clause and that's obviously not an easily made argument.

Maybe GW or 33 could give a better guess, but IMO it's 50/50 on who's going to win with the SCOTUS.

[Straw Man]

US Healthcare system is completely broken so let's add another 30 million people into it and not address any of the massive problems underlying it. That is SURE to work out. Really.

rising costs, abusive practicies, etc.. were addressed in the legislation

what else were you thinking was not addressed?

[Soul Crusher]

Ha ha ha ha - tell that to everyone getting massive premium increases.

[Fury]

Ha ha ha ha - tell that to everyone getting massive premium increases.

It's better to live in fairy tale land.

[Straw Man]

Ha ha ha ha - tell that to everyone getting massive premium increases.

has the legislation gone into full effect yet?

[Soul Crusher]

Obviously so since 2000 waiver have been needed so far to friends of obama and pelosi.

[Fury]

Obviously so since 2000 waiver have been needed so far to friends of obama and pelosi.

I get quite the kick out of the fact that the liberals on this board go completely deaf, blind and dumb every time someone asks them to explain why Piglosi and co. have been racking up the waivers by the hundreds. After all, it's such an awesome and perfect law!

[Straw Man]

Obviously so since 2000 waiver have been needed so far to friends of obama and pelosi.

then why do I read stuff like this from last week:


http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-05-31/news/29621719_1_health-plan-association-leslie-moran-health-care

Health care prices in New York City skyrocket, residents anxious for Obamacare policy to kick in
BY KENNETH LOVETT
DAILY NEWS ALBANY BUREAU CHIEF
Tuesday, May 31, 2011
ALBANY - For city residents forced to buy their own health insurance, President Obama's sweeping health care law can't take effect soon enough.

Premium rates for personally funded HMOs soared last year as the number of insurers competing for business has dropped dramatically since 2004, the Daily News has learned.

One company, GHI HMO Select, is now charging individuals $3,319 a month. And GHI family coverage is a jaw-dropping $8,463 per month, the state Insurance Department said. Those rates are nearly 8% higher than last year's.

[Soul Crusher]

And what will the price be afterwards.