Author Topic: Question for Coach- rotator cuff  (Read 5633 times)

GroinkTropin

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Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« on: June 14, 2011, 05:31:22 PM »
Hey Coach, I have always had a hard time getting my right pec to contract or get any kind of burn doing most chest movements. My buddy had at one time told me that I had weak external rotator cuff muscles. I worked on my rotator cuffs a bit, but never saw any improvement in my chest.

Essentially my buddy said my right pec was essentially just offering static support during movements I did for chest, instead of actually contracting. And wouldn't you know it, my left pec is big and full and grows VERY easily while my right pec is flat and never grows, meanwhile my right anterior deltoid and triceps are both overdeveloped in comparison to the same muscle on my left side.

So my question to you is, what might I be able to do to fix this? I have been watching video's on youtube on how to strengthen your rotator cuffs, and wonder what if any advice you have? Would be very much appreciated.

What do you think of these movements?


Am I going in the right direction? What about working on retracting my scapula? What am I missing here? Thanks for your time.

The Abdominal Snoman

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2011, 05:46:45 PM »
Be careful of the John Travolta's. Those things will try to trick you into entering a gay bath house.

GroinkTropin

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2011, 07:25:25 PM »
bump

haider

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2011, 07:31:31 PM »
How much can you upright row?  ???
follow the arrows

luvvsuNOT

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2011, 07:34:43 PM »
Post an upper bod pic so we can get a better idea of what you are talking about. NO need to post face if shy. I've had some rotator cuff problem and in fact one of mine couldnt be fixed but it has had no effect on my pecs.

dyslexic

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2011, 08:31:44 PM »
The rotator cuff tendons/muscles are individuals... 4 to be exact. The humerus (upper arm bone) rotates in the Glenoid cavity (looks like a hard boiled egg cut in half- and is barely "seeded" in this cavity. This is the only joint on the human body that truly rotates. It is also the only bone structure that has so many un-explained variations on movement.

It is easy to develop an imbalance because the exterior muscles (anterior, posterior and lateral delt) are far bigger and stronger and do more heavy work. Kind of like the shin (tibialis) vs. the calf.


You don't have "weak" external rotator cuff tendons, because they are INTERNAL, not EXTERNAL.


Look at the anatomy of the shoulder. It might give you an idea of what I am talking about.




there is an inexplicable "cross-over" effect from opposing sides, so that theory of static contraction kind of blows. The rotator cuffs work in rotation, so strengthening them requires just that: rotation. YOu don't need weight. You don't need weight to work them, just hold your arms with the upper arm parallel to the floor  and rotate them. You can use that old contraption that Ironman sold years ago. It works a bit, or you can hold a PVC pipe with your arms in an "L' shape. Plastic pipe overhead and rotate slowly.


 
[/youtube]

You can replace the DB's with the pipe. He forgot a muscle- the "teres minor"-- oh well
















try this link instead:
&NR=1&feature=fvwp



GroinkTropin

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2011, 09:12:09 PM »
Thanks Dyslexic.

I have wondered about the minor back muscles, and wonder if I have some kind of scapula restriction? The left side of my back is bigger and contracts better than my right as well. So, after years of training, my left pec and left lat will contract MUCH more strongly than my right, and are thicker and gain mass much easier. I have been able to even my back out somewhat, I think anyway.

I would kill to fix this, whatever it is. I have a feeling it's something simple, a small muscle, stretching or something, I just do not know what!!!!

I will try the cuban rotations. Anything else you might recommend??

And pictures, eh I hate doing that, but not out of shame, more paranoia than anything. Anyone who knows me knows what I am talking about...I have a fairly intense fear and paranoia about certain things, which is why I tend to vanish from the boards randomly, sometimes for years. Do you really think pictures will make a difference...

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2011, 10:18:18 PM »
Hey Coach, I have always had a hard time getting my right pec to contract or get any kind of burn doing most chest movements. My buddy had at one time told me that I had weak external rotator cuff muscles. I worked on my rotator cuffs a bit, but never saw any improvement in my chest.

Essentially my buddy said my right pec was essentially just offering static support during movements I did for chest, instead of actually contracting. And wouldn't you know it, my left pec is big and full and grows VERY easily while my right pec is flat and never grows, meanwhile my right anterior deltoid and triceps are both overdeveloped in comparison to the same muscle on my left side.

So my question to you is, what might I be able to do to fix this? I have been watching video's on youtube on how to strengthen your rotator cuffs, and wonder what if any advice you have? Would be very much appreciated.

What do you think of these movements?


Am I going in the right direction? What about working on retracting my scapula? What am I missing here? Thanks for your time.


1. Dyslexic is correct

2. This video....Fitness Quest 10 is owned by a friend of mind Todd Durkin. Just about anything Todd teaches thats incorporated into his system IMO is gold. I learn a lot from him.

3. The sub-scap and "shoulder girdle" if you will (from the nipple line on up to the back from the rhomboids on up) are IMO a must for rotator health and of course balance. On the to rotator cuff, there are 4 muscles that make up the rotator cuff itself Supraspinatus, Infraspinatus, Teres Minor and Subscapularis. instead of getting into the action of each muscle for the sake of arguement lets just assume you have no injury and it is in fact just an imbalance. But the one you have to remember is that the muscles of the rotator are a STABILIZER  and not a prime mover.

Most people don't bother to even think about rotator health let alone know how to train it. After rolling, warmup, mobility, etc, we get into whats called "pre-hab or pre-habilitation training. Let assume this for a throwing athlete, baseball, QB, tennis player or even a bodybuilder that does heavy over head presses. That would call for shoulder "pre-hab" where we do a series of movements each time they train, these are done at the beginning of our training. Rotator work just doesn't consist of just internal/external rotations, there are a miriade of muscles that tie into the shoulder itself. Biceps brachii/brachialis ties into the shoulder. We do Y-T-W-L, scap retractions, internal/external rotations, ball drops with a 9oz baseball, band pull aparts. You need to have the balance between the pec minor and sub-scap in order to help keep the rotator cuff stable. Too many people work prime movers and then when they get into trouble THEN they do cuff work. It HAS to be the other way around. Joint integrity before primary work.

Now, since the 4 muscles are actual muscles, we set a limit on how long we train them, usually six weeks then we stop. Why, because since they are a muscle they will grow and if they grow to big it will be too tight to actually move in the joint itself when that happens, especially in throwing athletes, that could be a reason for a tear instead of the usual overuse injury. More on this later. Just got back from my son's graduation 8)

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2011, 10:18:56 PM »
BTW, I hope some of this makes sense. We also do some awesome stuff for shoulder, trap, scap problems with a lacrosse, tennis or golf ball to increase shoulder mobility if there is any kind of impingement.

GroinkTropin

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 10:57:40 PM »
Cool!!! I am all ears as to what you recommend and I will follow it to the T. Before/after report/pics for sure, I have searched for an answer to this for so long...You really have no idea...Can take pics, shitty dig cam, but at least you can see front/back, just let me know what angles if any, or if you want me to do some exercises to see if things hurt/burn let me know.

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2011, 11:25:37 PM »
Are you talking to me?

smoothasf

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2011, 11:51:51 PM »
This is cool I know your frustration my left calf does not tense at all my right is striated but my left will not even go hard doing weighed calf raises its annoying as hell. Why's this coach?

GroinkTropin

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2011, 11:55:02 PM »

GroinkTropin

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2011, 11:56:08 PM »
Any chance I can get a quick routine that you feel may benefit my situation? Let me know if you need anything. I can offer a little cash, not rich though as I am a full time student...

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2011, 01:13:21 AM »
Good info.
.

wes

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2011, 01:19:08 AM »
Dyslexic and Joe................dropp ing knowledge!!

dyslexic

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2011, 01:19:34 AM »
Thanks Dyslexic.

I have wondered about the minor back muscles, and wonder if I have some kind of scapula restriction? The left side of my back is bigger and contracts better than my right as well. So, after years of training, my left pec and left lat will contract MUCH more strongly than my right, and are thicker and gain mass much easier. I have been able to even my back out somewhat, I think anyway.

I would kill to fix this, whatever it is. I have a feeling it's something simple, a small muscle, stretching or something, I just do not know what!!!!

I will try the cuban rotations. Anything else you might recommend??

And pictures, eh I hate doing that, but not out of shame, more paranoia than anything. Anyone who knows me knows what I am talking about...I have a fairly intense fear and paranoia about certain things, which is why I tend to vanish from the boards randomly, sometimes for years. Do you really think pictures will make a difference...














People always have one side that responds better than another, or one side that they feel "contracts" harder than the other. Many trainers have tried to concentrate on the weaker side by over-training in hopes of gaining balance, but it rarely works.





If you take a golfer or a baseball player, they always are more comfortable training their strong side. This is a mistake. Here we have the issue of muscular "imabalance" -- Once a stronger side gets too strong, the weaker side caves. This is an entirely different issue than the orginal topic.


Sometimes good Orthos and chiros can find certain pinched nerves or manipulate the spine so that you can feel equally well on both sides (when it concerns lagging body parts)

Everyone has a bicep or quad or pec that is smaller than the other. That's life.


I would say to try the chiropractic route and see if he/she can't free up some better "mind-muscle" connection.















P

GroinkTropin

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2011, 08:20:40 AM »
Those cuban rotations are brutal! Could barely use a 10lb bar, and my shoulders felt like they were grinding, or rough or something. No pain though. After 2-3 sets, got a pump in my shoulder and the rotations did not feel as rough...

Jadeveon Clowney

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2011, 09:33:53 AM »
This is cool I know your frustration my left calf does not tense at all my right is striated but my left will not even go hard doing weighed calf raises its annoying as hell. Why's this coach?

Probably killed a nerve when you were doing site injections. 

GroinkTropin

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2011, 10:53:44 AM »
Just did the full routine at home- the John Travoltas and pouring out soda exercises seem to really hit both sides, I noticed my left shoulder really struggled to do the soda pouring exercise while my right shoulder really struggled with lying on your side external rotations. Interesting. Did two high rep sets of the cubans as well, killer exercise!

Shoulders have a great burn right now just typing, and my arms are much harder to move around haha. I will do this routine daily and increase my stretching see what happens over the next couple weeks.

Thanks again Dyslexic and of course the Coach!

pellius

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2011, 12:51:31 PM »
save

OneMoreRep

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2011, 12:54:28 PM »
This thread is Coach approved!

"1"

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Question for Coach- rotator cuff
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2011, 05:43:29 PM »
You can also see an ART specialist if you are having really bad problems and have him/her work with you.  Many people often think they have a torn cuff when it is just tendonitis.