mike mentzer

[pantiesniffer]

People also forget arthur jones pretty much developed hammer strength as well

the guy isnt dumb by no means

[onlyme]

If Arthur Jones is dumb I'll take it.  If you can make millions and developed equipment and ideas stilll used 30+ years after thinking of them then I'll take stupid and dumb to an all different level.

[619Rules]

Arthur Jones'es son is the one behind Hammer Strength.

I think some of the Nautilus equipment is the best ever developed, like the pullover and lower back machines, most of it I don't like. Their hip machine was very expensive and I think one of the worst pieces of equipment I have even used. The 4 way neck machine was garbage as well.

Jones made millions not on the equipment-but on the Nautilus training philosophy, or HIT. He got the masses to believe you could work out 30 minutes/day 3x/week and get in tremendous condition-and it is all bullshit- really. Even a top level pro like M Mentzer did not get into top shape on that philosophy-and if MM couldn't then how is an average everyday Joe going to?

Jones sold a fantasy to the masses on getting in shape-and it made him money-but it was all a scam in my book, and I would not want to ever mislead people the wayJones did-not my style. It takes hard work, consistency and dedication to train hard day in and day out and there are no short cuts to it.

[noworries]

If his son developed it you can bet his dad had a big part in it.  Also, I just can't believe that everything as you say (in the most part) was all bullshit by Jones.  Sorry but in this industry no many things last 30+ years without something working.  I just can't imagine Jones is a legend and yet it was all a scam.  I think you may be talking out of your ass with no actual hard evidence and personal experience with him directly.  Just reading about it and hearing it from a guy in the gym doesn't count.

[619Rules]

Actually the one talking out his ass was Arthur Jones-he made wild and unsubstantiated claims on his training philosophy. He never backed any of his "clams" up with scientific evidence-published in scientific journals.

A perfect example was that Jones said you have to work every muscle 3x/week b/c the muscle atrophies after 48 hours. That is total and complete bullshit and that has been proven false in numerous scientific studies. Most people today train a body part once a week. Some people  train bigger body parts like legs once every 2 weeks-blows that 48 hour BS of Jones out of the water.

BTW-as for Nautilus lasting 30+ years-they are in business today by a shoe string. No major gym uses Nautilus equipment today. I have not seen a NEW piece of commercial Nautilus equipment for at least 15 years. That being the case-does Nautilus work today? Not really if you judge by equipment sales. They are making mattresses today to try to make $$-that is how bad it is for Nautilus.

I would not call Arthur Jones a legend-he did pioneer some excellent equipment-pioneer, yes-legend, no.

[bmacsys]

If his son developed it you can bet his dad had a big part in it.  Also, I just can't believe that everything as you say (in the most part) was all bullshit by Jones.  Sorry but in this industry no many things last 30+ years without something working.  I just can't imagine Jones is a legend and yet it was all a scam.  I think you may be talking out of your ass with no actual hard evidence and personal experience with him directly.  Just reading about it and hearing it from a guy in the gym doesn't count.

Arthur Jones is a genius plain and simple. Geniuses are always mistunderstood.

[Paxil Rose]

Does this fool know that the parent company of Hammer Strength Systems, is Nautilus.

More Smoke and Mirrors from the OLD SCHOOL GURU, 619

[onlyme]

I do have to admit I know the people at Nautilus and with equipment toping well over $25 million in sales this year they aren't doing to bad.  Just about every hotel in Hawaii has some Nautilus if there is a gym present.  2 of Sheratons on this island carry exclusively Nautilus they just installed this year.  And it is hard to believe a company like Nautilus is doing so bad when they bought out Bowflex, Stairmaster and Schwinn.  A company doing weak sales generally doesn't buy a company that exceeds $100 million in sales.  Yes, Hammer is owned by LifeFitness not Nautilus.

[knny187]

Does this fool know that the parent company of Hammer Strength Systems, is Nautilus.

More Smoke and Mirrors from the OLD SCHOOL GURU, 619

LifeFitness

[pantiesniffer]

619

have you ever read jones history

the guy had more balls than most people

he used to go around looking for rare artifacts in africa


the guy was quite an adventurer he lost his whole fortune when the goverment in africa

took all his ownings

and then he invented nautilus

you could never do those things if you wanted to.

[Double XL]

me and paxil rose are different people.

[619Rules]

I do have to admit I know the people at Nautilus and with equipment toping well over $25 million in sales........  And it is hard to believe a company like Nautilus is doing so bad when they bought out Bowflex, Stairmaster and Schwinn.  A company doing weak sales generally doesn't buy a company that exceeds $100 million in sales.  Yes, Hammer is owned by LifeFitness not Nautilus.

The commercial equipment line of Nautilus is different from the holding company itself-Nautilus Group Inc. Nautilus Group Inc owns Stairmaster, Bowflex and Schwinn as well as the Nautilus brand of commercial gym equipment. Those are the 4 divisions of Nautilus Group Inc.

Nautilus Group Inc.  has a very good balance sheet and do over half a billion  per yearin sales-but the Nautilus gym equipment line is a very small part of that amount-AND if the 25 million number you stated is correct-then it is less than 5% of Nautilus Group Inc's total sales-which means that Bowflex, Stairmaster and Schwinn are the big money makers in the company. And that is far more likely based on what I have seen recently.

I have been in all the newer gyms in San Diego, and really all over So Cal, and I have not seen a single piece of new Nautilus equipment-in even one gym. I have been in the big hotels and usually they have very small gyms-maybe a few pieces of equipment or a Universal machine-Nautilus is not going to be making the big sales in the hotel industry.

The fastest growing fitness chain in CA right now is Fitness 19-run by the family that started Family Fitness Centers-they have a deal with LifeFitness and all the equipment they use is from them-including all cardio and weights (Hammer).

Onlyme-find out from your friends how the Nautius commercial equipment is doing..... compared to the other three divisions............... ...

And who owns lifefitness, assclown. You said they were hanging on by a string and onlyme smacked you mouth.

Ass Clown needs more schooling so here goes....

Nautilus DOES NOT own Lifefitness ass clown.........

Man-evertime you open yourt mouth you get schooled.

Knny187 and Onlyme just told you-if you could read the post-that Hammer is owned by Lifefitness-not Nautilus...........

[haider]

And who owns lifefitness, assclown. You said they were hanging on by a string and onlyme smacked you mouth. Grow up Ronnie.

619 Rules' tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.

A man once asked 619Rules if his real name is "Ronnie". 619Rules did not respond, he simply stared at him until he exploded.

Rather than being birthed like a normal child, 619Rules instead decided to punch his way out of his mother's womb. Shortly thereafter he grew a beard.

619Rules recently had the idea to sell his urine as a canned beverage. We know this beverage as Red Bull.

619Rules built a time machine and went back in time to stop the JFK assassination. As Oswald shot, Ronnie met all three bullets with his beard, deflecting them. JFK's head exploded out of sheer amazement.

619Rules lives by only one rule: No Asian men.

619Rules was the fourth Wiseman. He brought baby Jesus the gift of "beard". Jesus wore it proudly to his dying day. The other Wisemen, jealous of Jesus' obvious gift favoritism, used their combined influence to have 619 omitted from the Bible. Shortly after all three died of roundhouse kick related deaths.

619Rules boylfriend once asked him how much wood a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. He then shouted, "HOW DARE YOU RHYME IN THE PRESENCE OF 619Rules!" and ripped out his throat. Holding his boyfriend's bloody throat in his hand he bellowed, "Don't f**k with Ronnie!" Two years and five months later he realized the irony of this statement and laughed so hard that anyone within a hundred mile radius of the blast went deaf.

619Rules once went to a frat party, and proceeded to roundhouse every popped collar in sight. He then drank three kegs and pooped on their floor, just because he's 619Rules.

619Rules once shot a German plane down with his finger, by yelling, "Bang!"

619Rules can make a woman climax by simply pointing at her and saying "booya".

To prove it isn't that big of a deal to beat cancer. 619Rules smoked 15 cartons of cigarettes a day for 2 years and aquired 7 different kinds of cancer only to rid them from his body by flexing for 30 minutes. Beat that, Lance Armstrong.

619Rules does not sleep. He waits.

Before each workout 619Rules, is injected with five times the lethal dose of elephant tranquilzer. This is, of course, to limit his strength and mobility, in an attempt to lower the fatality rate of the others training in the same gym.

619Rules sold his soul to the devil for his rugged good looks and unparalleled body of bodybuilding information. Shortly after the transaction was finalized, 619 roundhouse kicked the devil in the face and took his soul back. The devil, who appreciates irony, couldn't stay mad and admitted he should have seen it coming. They now play poker every second Wednesday of the month.

When 619Rules's boyfriend burned the turkey one Thanksgiving, 619 said, "Don't worry about it honey," and went into his backyard. He came back five minutes later with a live turkey, ate it whole, and when he threw it up a few seconds later it was fully cooked and came with cranberry sauce. When his man asked him how he had done it, he gave him a roundhouse kick to the face and said, "Never question 619Rules."

Takeru Kobayashi ate 50 and a half hotdogs in 12 minutes. 619Rules ate 12 asian babies in 50 and a half minutes. 619 won.

619Rules punched a woman in the vagina when she didn't give him exact change. 619, hates woman.

619Rules frequently signs up for beginner karate classes, just so he can "accidentally" beat the shit out of little kids.

In one episode of Fresh Prince of Bel Air, 619Rules replaced Carlton for one scene and nobody noticed.

619Rules ruins the endings of Harry Potter books for children who just bought one for the hell of it. When they start crying 619 calmly says, "I'll give you something to cry about," and roundhouse kicks them in the face.

619Rules once tried to sue Burger King after they refused to put razor wire in his Whopper Jr., insisting that that actually is "his" way.

619Rules is currently suing NBC, claiming Law and Order are trademarked names for his left and right legs.

One of the greatest cover-ups of the last century was the fact that Hitler did not commit suicide in his bunker, but was in fact tea-bagged to death by 619Rules.

Even if you take all four aces out of a deck of cards, 619Rules would still get 21 on the first hand of blackjack. What happens in Vagas, stays in Vagas.

wow, you should get a life

http://www.ebay.com

[knny187]

Off the Top of my head & just browsing a few manufacturers year end numbers....


Nautilus        -  $523 million
Life Fitness   -  $558 million
Precor          -   $222 million

Icon Fitness  -  $1,095 million


Life Fitness is the Leading company in commercial sales equipment.

The majority (at least 80%) of Nautilus's money is coming from consumer sales.

And as 619Rules said & I agree....there's very few gyms that carry the Nautilus line.  Years ago most gym stopped carrying & re-ordering the Nautilus line because of past company financial problems.  Believe it or not...there is a few of the commercial tread climbers being used here in clubs in So Cal.  The freeweight/machine side of Nautilus is mostly non existent in major health clubs but is still being used in "Curves" type fitness centers.

[onlyme]

I could care less about either company.  Unless I had some stock in one of them.  Then I would be concerned.    I actually some of the Nautilus benches cause they are wider and very sturdy. 

[knny187]

I could care less about either company.  Unless I had some stock in one of them.  Then I would be concerned.    I actually some of the Nautilus benches cause they are wider and very sturdy. 

I actually think American Manufactures "miss the boat" when it comes to free weight benches.

[bic_staedtler]

Mike Mentzer threads start controversy no matter how they come up. 

Mike had a great physique.  His training methods while he was competing were the right thing at the right time, I'm sure they were radical then. 

As far as the logic of what works sticks around over the years, then why do the mags on the whole espouse high volume training?  That style of training has survived MM to this day, yet I know very few who use it.

[619Rules]

Mike Mentzer threads start controversy no matter how they come up. 


As far as the logic of what works sticks around over the years, then why do the mags on the whole espouse high volume training?  That style of training has survived MM to this day, yet I know very few who use it.

If 12-20 sets is high volume I know many people who follow that type of workout-I would say most hardcore BBers use that type of routine........and the reason is pretty simple-it works.

Although some people might not consider 12 sets volume training....I would though.

[stuntmovie]

Might be a good time to post this old pic of Mike. He was pretty outspoken about Arnold the last time I spoke with him many years ago.

[Figo]

Might be a good time to post this old pic of Mike. He was pretty outspoken about Arnold the last time I spoke with him many years ago.

Do share some stories, stuntmovie!

[pumpster]

  I'll be honest, the ONE AND ONLY reason people think HIT is bs and the whole one set to failure thing is bs, is because they are not training anywhere in the realm of the intensity that AJ used with himself and his bodybuilders. 

I've always said this. Those who don't believe in HIT probably really haven't ever done it or found it so harsh that they couldn't stick with it. NOTHING TO DO WITH EFFECTIVENESS. Oliva & Viator thought it very effective, so anyone here criticizing it should accept that their opinions are just that.

Nautilus has nothing to do with the old Nautilus! The current Nautilus is a name that was assumed about 3 years ago.

Jones made millions not on the equipment-but on the Nautilus training philosophy, or HIT

Where does this info come from? In the 70s & 80s there were many gyms replete with the entire Nautilus line of equipment, through which customers were funnelled through a circuit.

He got the masses to believe you could work out 30 minutes/day 3x/week and get in tremendous condition-and it is all bullshit- really.

Not BS-the masses were not practicing true HIT; even most BBs couldn't stay true to the program.

[pumpster]

I would not call Arthur Jones a legend-he did pioneer some excellent equipment-pioneer, yes-legend, no.

As much as there are legends in BB, he is. You just don't like the idea while someone more objective can see it.

BTW-as for Nautilus lasting 30+ years-they are in business today by a shoe string. No major gym uses Nautilus equipment today. I have not seen a NEW piece of commercial Nautilus equipment for at least 15 years. That being the case-does Nautilus work today? Not really if you judge by equipment sales. They are making mattresses today to try to make $$-that is how bad it is for Nautilus.

The very very evident bitterness here really devalues your assessments.

The fastest growing fitness chain in CA right now is Fitness 19-run by the family that started Family Fitness Centers-they have a deal with LifeFitness and all the equipment they use is from them-including all cardio and weights (Hammer).

Onlyme-find out from your friends how the Nautius commercial equipment is doing..... compared to the other three divisions............... ...

How well they're doing today does little to discredit previous popularity; times change, competitors come in with comparable equipment, even Hammer.

As far as revenues, Stairmaster's one of their worst-performing brands but one of the best in terms of quality, so i'd hardly say that sales figures should be used as the sole basis for assessment.

[pumpster]

As far as the logic of what works sticks around over the years, then why do the mags on the whole espouse high volume training?  That style of training has survived MM to this day, yet I know very few who use it.

Most people including BBs don't like it, aren't on it long enough to judge it fairly. True HIT is extremely challenging for short periods of time, and isn't what most who claim to be HIT trainers are doing.

And as 619Rules said & I agree....there's very few gyms that carry the Nautilus line.  Years ago most gym stopped carrying & re-ordering the Nautilus line because of past company financial problems.  Believe it or not...there is a few of the commercial tread climbers being used here in clubs in So Cal.  The freeweight/machine side of Nautilus is mostly non existent in major health clubs but is still being used in "Curves" type fitness centers.

As far as current Nautilus equipment, today's performance is irrelevant to what they achieved previously.

As far as other lines, they have nothing to do with Nautilus-it is not the same Nautilus.

[pumpster]

If 12-20 sets is high volume I know many people who follow that type of workout-I would say most hardcore BBers use that type of routine........and the reason is pretty simple-it works.

Do you always see things in blacks & whites? That's a simplistic one-dimensional rationalization.

It's not just that volume works, it's because most BBs LIKE using volume. This was the explanation given by Dave Draper at a seminar, in answer to why HIT wasn't so popular. Didn't waste time with silly theories about it's ineffectiveness, that's not the whole thing.

True HIT is effective, and is rarely practiced because it's challenging to those accustomed to volume, thus the results are not good. With Oliva & Viator espousing it's efficacy, it's rather stupid to generalize about it's ineffectiveness.

I will say it again, Arthur Jones made WILD and UNFOUNDED claims about his training philosophy that had no basis in fact (as dd M Mentzer). He did this as a gimmick to sell his Nautilus equipment. Nautilus equipment is almost gone from the face of the earth today. That tells you if his bogus claims were the real deal or not.

Your interpretations are so one-sides as to be laughable. Again you generalize in blacks & whites. A lot of what he said actually makes sense to this day and he you go yourself with unfounded claims that none of it makes sense.