Matt C: Has pure capitalist system ever been realised?
I suppose neither has been realized, at least for long periods of time. Although history has examples of systems which are closer to "true capitalism" than "true communism".
In any true capitalist system, it would not be long before the largest corporations start pressuring government members to create regulations which impose costs on their competitors and allow them to maintain or attempt to create monopoly/oligopoly power. Yes, it is corporations who want minimum wage and regulations because it hurts smaller competition. For that reason, I honestly don't see a purist capitalist model lasting for long. But in the fleeting instances we have seen it, it has worked well. "True communism" is the equivalent of putting 10 naked women in a room with 100 horny men and assuming none of the women will be raped. Then when this situation unfolds and all the women get raped people come back and say "But 'in theory' this wasn't supposed to happen!! That's not the true intent of this social experiment!"
Well yeah, but intentions aside, it always happens that way so isn't it rational to learn from that and not put 10 naked women in a room with 100 horny men? Likewise, we shouldn't create socioeconomic systems based on fantasies about egalitarianism and Boasian Anthropology.
you understand that communism has never been actually tried
so stop bashin it and acting like its evil, and that capitalism is some grand miracle.
communism isnt bad. it lead to the socialist uprising of the late 18th and early 19th century that is responsible for all the luxuries developed countries have today.
without an idealistic workers philosophy (communism) to counter the classcial economics that was dominating the political spector, we could have never achieveed minumum wages, safe working conditions, 8 horu work days, etc etc.
as for ww2. you said we shouldnt put down germany without recognizing the evil germany was fihting. and you said that evbil was communism. no. germany was not fighting any evil. and the evil that was on the opposite side, the vil of russia, was not a communist evil but the vil of a few bad men who tookpower in a communist countries. their policies were not communist and germany was not fighting them fo4r those reasons anyways.
you were either obfuscating or just ignorant
It is correct to state that what was observed in Soviet Russia was not "true communism", but it is what we see time and time again when the incentive system is shifted to favour policies which the USSR focused on. And you are right that what was observed was the evil of a few bad men. Men such as
Lazar Kaganovich, Genrikh Yagoda, Leonid Reichman, Béla Kun and others. These men murdered more people ever attributed to Hitler.
tbombz - if private property is abolished, what incentive would people have to take care of property? Imagine if you were forced to bring homeless people into your home and share your belongings with them equally. You may not think that is what communism would ultimately lead to but the reality is that there are seven billion people on the planet and a global GDP of $10,000 per year. Thus anyone making more than that figure is receiving more than their "fair share" and would have to redistribute that wealth.
Yes, capitalism results in an uneven distribution of wealth, but it also creates a system where said wealth is created in the first place. If the workers create Wal-Mart then why do they rely on the capital of the corporation to create the store? They should be able to band together and create their own Wal-Mart. How are big projects are undertaken? By financing. Investment requires saving. Rich people have big savings and it would not be rational to part with those savings if they could not realize the benefits of doing so. It would be better to spend the money vacationing or buying expensive gifts for family. There is $65 trillion dollars in the global economy circulating annually. My question is: What system will allow that money to go to the best use to create the most good? Thus far I see no system which has produced a greater result than a predominantly free market oriented one.
neither pure communism nor pure capitalism is good. you need bits of each to create a system that allows for personal freedom and collective prosperity while at the same time ensuring the responsible use of the planets resources.
I would probably be inclined to agree that a bit of a mix is best, but from my vantage point, free markets have a great track record and should be a key component in any economy.
