Author Topic: Overtraining?  (Read 4310 times)

SF1900

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Overtraining?
« on: July 15, 2011, 10:10:55 PM »
What is this whole business on over-training? We often hear this word thrown around. Does it even exist? Are there any studies that indicate that doing a certain amount of sets is considered "over-training?" Is there any scientific evidence that 'over-training" actually exists.

Also, who do you think had a better back, Ronnie or Dorian?  :-\ :-\



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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2011, 10:18:33 PM »
Of course it exists.

SF1900

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2011, 10:21:40 PM »
Of course it exists.

Evidence? Let me some peer reviewed journals. Just saying it exists doesn't mean it actually exists, kind of like your God :-\ :-\

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Nirvana

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2011, 11:22:36 PM »
i feel stronger and get a better pump after a few days off.

lowkey9

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2011, 11:35:07 PM »
Overtaining isn't something that happens in one set, or one session, which is what most people think.  It's something that accumulates over time, over a handful of gym sessions or a period of weeks or months.  You'll know when you're overtraining because you'll start getting weaker despite no change in cycle/food intake, you'll feel lethargic all the time, your appetite will decrease, etc etc.  That said it's very hard to actually reach a state where you're body is overtrained and 99 out of 100 people will never reach that point.

trapz101

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2011, 11:46:29 PM »
Overtaining isn't something that happens in one set, or one session, which is what most people think.  It's something that accumulates over time, over a handful of gym sessions or a period of weeks or months.  You'll know when you're overtraining because you'll start getting weaker despite no change in cycle/food intake, you'll feel lethargic all the time, your appetite will decrease, etc etc.  That said it's very hard to actually reach a state where you're body is overtrained and 99 out of 100 people will never reach that point.

true and i think overtraining is way too overrated.....it's impossible for you to overtrain unless you're training 7 days a week with no proper nutrition....
T

oderus

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2011, 12:05:00 AM »
Evidence? Let me some peer reviewed journals. Just saying it exists doesn't mean it actually exists, kind of like your God :-\ :-\


do heavy bench press every day and then get back to me

Meso_z

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2011, 01:44:22 AM »
Overtaining isn't something that happens in one set, or one session, which is what most people think.  It's something that accumulates over time, over a handful of gym sessions or a period of weeks or months.  You'll know when you're overtraining because you'll start getting weaker despite no change in cycle/food intake, you'll feel lethargic all the time, your appetite will decrease, etc etc.  That said it's very hard to actually reach a state where you're body is overtrained and 99 out of 100 people will never reach that point.
Good thoughts..

cephissus

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2011, 02:08:24 AM »
if you define overtraining according to whatever bizarre criteria the cyclists / runners / sports and conditioning folks use, i'm sure the answer is yes... but when this question pops up it's usually a case of people confusing terms.

as far as i know this term refers to a condition which has a strict definition within certain disciplines.  however, normally a young bodybuilder doesn't know the first thing about this business and just wants to know if you can train too much.  OF COURSE YOU CAN!  Like someone earlier posted, go bench press for ten thousand reps every day... see if you make any progress at all.  Now, of course, the young man will ask "well what about this program" and probably list his split complete with sets and reps.  There's no way to tell, for the most part, just by looking at this information if one is doing too much training.  It depends on a lot of things, but mostly it depends on whether you are doing sensible training.

If you have technique down and don't try to annihilate yourself and then come back two days later, still sore as hell, you will probably make progress and won't have to worry about doing too much.  However, if you don't know how to squat and go down with a round lower back, for example, then I would argue that even ONE REP is overtraining.  It's too much training... because even one shitty rep is worse than zero shitty reps.  In my opinion, if you know what you are doing and aren't overeager, then whether you do 5 sets, 8 sets, or 10 sets won't make the difference between "overtraining" and progress.  If you get through five sets and feel great, and then try to do five more and kill your pump, start grinding reps like crazy, stop feeling muscle sensation, just to say you did it or convince yourself that you put in the extra effort, or whatever, then you are going to fuck yourself up via too much training.  Knowing when to stop isn't hard.  Just clear your mind of all prejudices for "hard work," listen to your body, and you won't "overtrain."

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2011, 02:21:04 AM »
neurotransmitters

Meso_z

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2011, 03:34:04 AM »
lmao @ "Bodybuilders" who think they "overtrain".  :D

an hour of "lifting things up and putting them down" leaves them "exausted" ... yet I didnt hear any olympic lifter or cyclist or gymnast complain that he "feels sore".  ::)

The True Adonis

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2011, 04:17:12 AM »
12 sets a day, each a different body part cannot possibly be near overtraining.



Chick

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2011, 05:21:33 AM »
lmao @ "Bodybuilders" who think they "overtrain".  :D

an hour of "lifting things up and putting them down" leaves them "exausted" ... yet I didnt hear any olympic lifter or cyclist or gymnast complain that he "feels sore".  ::)

it has nothing to do with being "exhausted"...it has everything to do with not allowing for proper recovery which is essential to the idea of building muscle tissue.

And the reason you don't hear of any Olympic lifter, cyclist or gymnast complaining of being " sore" is that aren't on a carb restricted diet for 12 weeks in their prep....

ever  sport has their cross to bear when it comes to training, etc...all have their individual challenges, everyone thinks they have it tough...until they try someone else's program.  All in perspective.

doriancutlerman

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2011, 05:35:50 AM »
Overtaining isn't something that happens in one set, or one session, which is what most people think.  It's something that accumulates over time, over a handful of gym sessions or a period of weeks or months.  You'll know when you're overtraining because you'll start getting weaker despite no change in cycle/food intake, you'll feel lethargic all the time, your appetite will decrease, etc etc.  That said it's very hard to actually reach a state where you're body is overtrained and 99 out of 100 people will never reach that point.

Very well said. 

doriancutlerman

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2011, 05:43:59 AM »
12 sets a day, each a different body part cannot possibly be near overtraining.




That makes a certain intuitive sense (12 sets seems a little arbitrary, though).  But ...

A.  as Mentzer used to say, recovery ability is probably as varied as height (Peter Dinklage vs. Shaq) or skin tone.  I've seen extreme ectomorph types for whom even 12 sets thrice weekly would overtrain them after a couple of months, max.

To that end, we can't really say X sets/day is ever tolerable for everybody.

B.  it also depends on the kind of sets we're talking about.  12 sets/bodypart for 10 reps with 50% 1RM shouldn't be problematic for most.  12 sets to failure, let alone beyond ...

Eh.  The average guy might be able to tolerate that for awhile, but it sounds an awful lot like what I see most local gym rats do.  They're the same guys who bench 225 for a 10 RM year after year, so they're doing something wrong.

Chick

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2011, 05:48:49 AM »
12 sets a day, each a different body part cannot possibly be near overtraining.




Unless each set was DL of 225 for 100 reps...

doriancutlerman

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2011, 05:56:27 AM »
Unless each set was DL of 225 for 100 reps...

I'd forgotten that one  ;D

PJim

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2011, 06:42:20 AM »
Course it fucking exists. The body only has a limited recovery ability. It does not have a limitless capacity to handle any kind of stress.

Moen

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2011, 07:15:31 AM »
Football players hospitalized recently due to exercise induced rhabdomyolisis? I'd say that constitutes "overtraining".

dj181

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2011, 08:11:12 AM »
Yes it exists, but so does "under-training".

mass 04

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2011, 08:17:47 AM »
Yes it exists, but so does "under-training".
Says the "man" whose "workouts" consist of a set of 15 lb dumbell curls and 10 lb side laterals once a week. Don't you have a hunk of Velveeta to eat?

dj181

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2011, 08:21:05 AM »
Says the "man" whose "workouts" consist of a set of 15 lb dumbell curls and 10 lb side laterals once a week. Don't you have a hunk of Velveeta to eat?

Well, I stopped that nosense, joined a gym, and now I train with moderate volume, as I was indeed "under-training". Still don't train legs though.

mesmorph78

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2011, 08:23:34 AM »
Unless each set was DL of 225 for 100 reps...

 ;D
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NaturalWonder83

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2011, 08:41:28 AM »
it has nothing to do with being "exhausted"...it has everything to do with not allowing for proper recovery which is essential to the idea of building muscle tissue.

And the reason you don't hear of any Olympic lifter, cyclist or gymnast complaining of being " sore" is that aren't on a carb restricted diet for 12 weeks in their prep....

ever  sport has their cross to bear when it comes to training, etc...all have their individual challenges, everyone thinks they have it tough...until they try someone else's program.  All in perspective.
u really do live in a fantasy world, dont u old man
dont even try to peddle your crap that carb restricted diets for a couple of weeks are so taxing on the body-what about special forces soldiers who endure small amounts of foods and high stress for months on end, or prisoners of war who endure torture and little food and yet stil function-bodybuilding is far from a sport-
lifing weights and walking on a teadmill a few times a week is far from a hard sport-and to try and compare it to real sports is disrspectful to real athletes
w

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Re: Overtraining?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2011, 08:46:55 AM »
Well, I stopped that nosense, joined a gym, and now I train with moderate volume, as I was indeed "under-training". Still don't train legs though.

good man!