Author Topic: Abortion IS Murder (Read 8352 times)

Hugo Chavez · « **on:** July 22, 2011, 11:59:31 PM »

End of story, if you have an abortion you are killing a person. There are very few exceptions to that fact.

MB_722 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:02:56 AM »

what if they are retarded?

or the woman was raped?

tonymctones · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:00:42 AM »

Quote from: MB_722 on July 23, 2011, 01:02:56 AM

what if they are retarded?

or the woman was raped?

is still killing a baby, im more apt to be tolerant of the raped situation b/c she didnt make a concious decision to engage in actions that would result in a baby but nevertheless its still a baby...

Mr. Magoo · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2011, 09:16:01 AM »

define "person"

I disagree with your usage of the word "fact"

Fair Warning: I recently finished doing a fair amount of reading on this topic, so I might be attached to this thread for a while

OzmO · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2011, 10:43:02 AM »

Tony,

do those actions (rape) take away from the fact the baby is still a human being and by aborting it we are committing murder?

abijahmaniaco · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2011, 10:50:02 AM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 23, 2011, 10:43:02 AM

Tony,

do those actions (rape) take away from the fact the baby is still a human being and by aborting it we are committing murder?

owned

OzmO · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2011, 12:25:10 PM »

Quote from: abijahmaniaco on July 23, 2011, 10:50:02 AM

owned

Just asking him a question for the purpose of debate

Mr. Magoo · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2011, 12:26:33 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 23, 2011, 10:43:02 AM

Tony,

do those actions (rape) take away from the fact the baby is still a human being and by aborting it we are committing murder?

Even IF the unborn baby=person premise is granted (and this is very very debateable), then some might say that abortion is still permissible.

very interesting read from Judith Thomson that does just that: http://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm

tonymctones · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2011, 12:54:13 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 23, 2011, 10:43:02 AM

Tony,

do those actions (rape) take away from the fact the baby is still a human being and by aborting it we are committing murder?

agreed, if you read my first post I address this...however, the women impregnated by rape wasnt a willing participant. So is it really her responsibility? thats my point...

forcing someone to keep baby b/c of rape is like randomly giving ppl children and saying you must take care of this child regardless.

the vast vast vast majority of abortions are elective and not b/c of rape...b/c idiots dont understand that if you have unprotected sex you get pregnant...

tonymctones · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2011, 12:55:41 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Magoo on July 23, 2011, 09:16:01 AM

define "person"

I disagree with your usage of the word "fact"

Fair Warning: I recently finished doing a fair amount of reading on this topic, so I might be attached to this thread for a while

have you done any reading on the inequality of mens and womens parental rights?

Mr. Magoo · « **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2011, 12:59:10 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on July 23, 2011, 12:55:41 PM

have you done any reading on the inequality of mens and womens parental rights?

I don't think that's relevant to Chavez's (Abortion = murder) post is it?

Necrosis · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:01:42 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 23, 2011, 10:43:02 AM

Tony,

do those actions (rape) take away from the fact the baby is still a human being and by aborting it we are committing murder?

at what point is the fetus a human? the instance of conception? because 50% of pregnancies are aborted naturally (god runs a clinic, the most popular one).

what about if i jerk off? is that a particular life i just let slip away?

it is not murder, we are animals, living things gain precedent over non-living things especially things that cant survive on there own. I dont mean protection and nutriture, i mean the act of self regulation which is not availible till a generous number of 20 weeks post implantation.

you should have good reasons for abortion i agree, but if its for the mothers health or the baby was conceived against her will it is morally correct to preserve the right of the living and not that of the non-life, why should it be?

you are acting as if each particular pregnancy corresponds to a particular life, that if aborted this life or soul will never experience life ever. If that is the case then my tissue is full of lives that will never be. You have to draw the line somewhere and actually define what it is you are talking about, otherwise its completely arbitrary.

Necrosis · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:03:11 PM »

murder as by definition doesnt equate to pre 20 week abortion ftr. It just doesnt and thats a fact.

tonymctones · « **Reply #13 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:05:51 PM »

Quote from: Necrosis on July 23, 2011, 01:01:42 PM

at what point is the fetus a human? the instance of conception? because 50% of pregnancies are aborted naturally (god runs a clinic, the most popular one).

what about if i jerk off? is that a particular life i just let slip away?

it is not murder, we are animals, living things gain precedent over non-living things especially things that cant survive on there own. I dont mean protection and nutriture, i mean the act of self regulation which is not availible till a generous number of 20 weeks post implantation.

you should have good reasons for abortion i agree, but if its for the mothers health or the baby was conceived against her will it is morally correct to preserve the right of the living and not that of the non-life, why should it be?

you are acting as if each particular pregnancy corresponds to a particular life, that if aborted this life or soul will never experience life ever. If that is the case then my tissue is full of lives that will never be. You have to draw the line somewhere and actually define what it is you are talking about, otherwise its completely arbitrary.

while i agree with your outcome i disagree with your reasoning...

a fetus is from 2 sets of genetic material so no you beating off isnt killing anything...

what about old ppl or mental defectives...you said in the other thread that ppl should be taken care of if they have conginital disease...well here you say that ppl or things that cant take care of themselves take a back seat to those that can...

which one is it?

Necrosis · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:24:47 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on July 23, 2011, 01:05:51 PM

while i agree with your outcome i disagree with your reasoning...

a fetus is from 2 sets of genetic material so no you beating off isnt killing anything...

what about old ppl or mental defectives...you said in the other thread that ppl should be taken care of if they have conginital disease...well here you say that ppl or things that cant take care of themselves take a back seat to those that can...

which one is it?

your reading comprehension is poor. Tell me what a sick living human and anything i have stated in my post have in common?

my analogy does apply, each egg, each sperm are to be seen as unique ( i dont ftr) you have define where you are creating life and were life is being lost. So define life or when the organism is living if you will.

lol at people or THINGS in your quote, you should actually think before you write. Again how are my posts in any way saying what you are implying?

Pro-tip: i argued that sick humans, those that can breath and regulate there own temperature have a right to a proper life, while in the above post i argued that less then 20 weeks gestation is not life but effectively a parasite in the scientific definition of the term, it uses the mothers blood to live, needs her to feed it, cannot breath and if taken away from the placenta and womb would die no matter what interventions are initiated, because it is not a human being. Thus anytime the living persons life is put in jeopardy or in cases on non-requested insemination the non-living fetus must be the one on the shitty end not the living party, to suggest otherwise is to degrade life and ask another human being to risk there life for something that MAY live. 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage, i wouldnt take that chance if i was a mother.

Agnostic007 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:50:11 PM »

If we use the texas penal code on the definition of murder then no, it is not murder. Sorry.

OzmO · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2011, 06:06:34 AM »

Quote from: tonymctones on July 23, 2011, 12:54:13 PM

agreed, if you read my first post I address this...however, the women impregnated by rape wasnt a willing participant. So is it really her responsibility? thats my point...

forcing someone to keep baby b/c of rape is like randomly giving ppl children and saying you must take care of this child regardless.

the vast vast vast majority of abortions are elective and not b/c of rape...b/c idiots dont understand that if you have unprotected sex you get pregnant...

So for you then it's about responsibility not the moral implications of murder?

OzmO · « **Reply #17 on:** July 24, 2011, 06:12:55 AM »

Quote from: Necrosis on July 23, 2011, 01:01:42 PM

at what point is the fetus a human? the instance of conception? because 50% of pregnancies are aborted naturally (god runs a clinic, the most popular one).
what about if i jerk off? is that a particular life i just let slip away?
it is not murder, we are animals, living things gain precedent over non-living things especially things that cant survive on there own. I dont mean protection and nutriture, i mean the act of self regulation which is not availible till a generous number of 20 weeks post implantation.
you should have good reasons for abortion i agree, but if its for the mothers health or the baby was conceived against her will it is morally correct to preserve the right of the living and not that of the non-life, why should it be?
you are acting as if each particular pregnancy corresponds to a particular life, that if aborted this life or soul will never experience life ever. If that is the case then my tissue is full of lives that will never be. You have
to draw the line somewhere and actually define what it is you are talking about, otherwise its completely arbitrary.

I really don't know at what point the fetus is human. I suppose you could say it's human to the extent that it can survive a Premature birth.

For me I am against abortion but not against it being legal.

I was just mostly presenting a question to Tony on it, I wasnt trying to imply all life is sacret and therefore we shouldn't eat plants, amebas, fish, etc.

Hugo Chavez · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2011, 05:22:02 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 24, 2011, 06:12:55 AM

I really don't know at what point the fetus is human. I suppose you could say it's human to the extent that it can survive a Premature birth.

For me I am against abortion but not against it being legal.

I was just mostly presenting a question to Tony on it, I wasnt trying to imply all life is sacret and therefore we shouldn't eat plants, amebas, fish, etc.

We all live in a time line, not just the moment!!. You can trace it all back to when you were created up to the moment you are living now and on to the future if you want to guess upon that. Time is the biggest factor in our lives... That is without dispute!!.... If you are considering everything withing the perspective of the timeline, not just a moment in time, then you must see that much of what we allow legally as abortion is actually murder.

OzmO · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2011, 05:32:03 PM »

Quote from: Hugo Chavez on July 25, 2011, 05:22:02 PM

We all live in a time line, not just the moment!!. You can trace it all back to when you were created up to the moment you are living now and on to the future if you want to guess upon that. Time is the biggest factor in our lives... That is without dispute!!.... If you are considering everything withing the perspective of the timeline, not just a moment in time, then you must see that much of what we allow legally as abortion is actually murder.

That's one of the reasons i would never support it. Because i really don't know when its murder or not. Your argument seems valid. Lemme ask you, are you against abortion being legal?

newmom · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2011, 05:40:26 PM »

keep your laws off my body and guns...

Hugo Chavez · « **Reply #21 on:** July 25, 2011, 05:43:34 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 25, 2011, 05:32:03 PM

That's one of the reasons i would never support it. Because i really don't know when its murder or not. Your argument seems valid. Lemme ask you, are you against abortion being legal?

I'm against abortion being legal but within reason, which the stupid fucking retarded beyone belief rightwing idiots refuses to see: I've seen first hand, right in front of me the real reasons why some late term abortions should be allowed, and at the same time, I see the needless murders of babies out of convenience.

Hugo Chavez · « **Reply #22 on:** July 25, 2011, 05:46:43 PM »

Quote from: Runningmom on July 25, 2011, 05:40:26 PM

keep your laws off my body and guns...

if only the issue were so simple, it is not......

newmom · « **Reply #23 on:** July 25, 2011, 05:53:30 PM »

okay for arguments sake

A woman is preggo with lets say sextuplets, doctor advises it's best to terminate 2 babies so the other 4 will be more healthy and better chance for them, if she chooses to terminate 2 is that murder?

OzmO · « **Reply #24 on:** July 25, 2011, 05:58:32 PM »

Quote from: Hugo Chavez on July 25, 2011, 05:43:34 PM

I'm against abortion being legal but within reason, which the stupid fucking retarded beyone belief rightwing idiots refuses to see: I've seen first hand, right in front of me the real reasons why some late term abortions should be allowed, and at the same time, I see the needless murders of babies out of convenience.

Its a hard thing for me to deal with. If it was on a 1-10 scale, and 10 was absolutely make it against the law and 1 was absolutely make it legal and the tipping point was in the middle i would be 4.99

Author Topic: Abortion IS Murder (Read 8352 times)

newmom

newmom