Yet another Republican tells the ugly truth about our federal debt

[Straw Man]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697//vp/43917503#43917503

[Soul Crusher]

You wanted even more spending and debt so wtf are you talking about? 

[Straw Man]

You wanted even more spending and debt so wtf are you talking about? 

watch the video and if you're posting from your phone then don't comment until you've watched it

I'll be glad to discuss anything mentioned in the video

[Soul Crusher]

Blacken already posted this.   Again how are tax cuts the same as spending. 

[Straw Man]

Blacken already posted this.   Again how are tax cuts the same as spending. 

did you watch it

all of it ?

[Soul Crusher]

did you watch it

all of it ?

Yes.   I don't disagree about wars and drug bill.   

[Straw Man]

Yes.   I don't disagree about wars and drug bill.   

agree with them or not

they were not paid for

they added to the debt

sames goes with tax cuts

unless they were offset with spending cuts (which they have never been) then they are not paid for

one thing they all have in common is

they are all included in the current debt

[GigantorX]

So it's all Bushes fault....still?

I'm not a fan of his policies but for fucks sake, enough with MSNBC and the rest of the Left water carriers with the stuff running cover for Obama and the Democrats, enough.  Put the big boy pants on and get to work, enough of this "providing cover" stuff, Bush has been out of office for good chunk of time now...time to move on.

The economy was creating record tax revenue, the problem was the Republicans spending like drunken sailors and starting wars. They could have balanced the budget and even produced a true, not projected, surplus but instead they spent it all and more. I'm just a bit confused, the "Big Evil Rich People Tax Cuts", according to the CBO, were good for 70 billion per year, otherwise known as pissing in an ocean. I also just love it that MSNBC had the graph tell us that Obama is only responsible for 1.4T and the "Recession etc" (REALLY? Etc?) is responsible for the other 3T. Pretty shady. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the guest actually stated that there was record revenue and all things being equal the Admin. would have had a surplus....but the wars, spending and "all the other stuff" happened.

The Clinton tax hikes only accounted for 1% of the overall increase in revenue during the 90's. There was a "booming" economy that accounted for the rest just like it always does. Plus Clinton never gets the balanced budget without the Rep. controlled Congress.

Straw, I get why your posting this, but I just roll my eyes when I watch it. What's the point? To run cover? To put up a grade school presentation level graph to hide how much Obama is really responsible for? What about ObamaCare? What about his spending? Projected spending as well.....So Bush ran up the credit card, now Obama is on pace to make Bush II look like a tightwad but we won't talk about that because Chris Matthews dug up another Republican to tell us something that isn't surprising.

I just, I don't know. I'm tired of this crap.

[GigantorX]

agree with them or not

they were not paid for

they added to the debt

sames goes with tax cuts

unless they were offset with spending cuts (which they have never been) then they are not paid for

one thing they all have in common is

they are all included in the current debt

I addressed all this shit in another thread.

We are in the present now, 2011, shit is bad and the President and his administration aren't helping the situation. Tax cuts aren't a magic bullet and neither is Keynesian tactics, especially Keynesian bullshit.

Why hasn't Chris Matthews had a Clinton aide on or Bill himself to talk about why the fuck he signed off on the Gramm-Leach-Biley Act? That has been far more destructive and costly than any fucking tax cuts by anyone ever.

[Straw Man]

So it's all Bushes fault....still?
I'm not a fan of his policies but for fucks sake, enough with MSNBC and the rest of the Left water carriers with the stuff running cover for Obama and the Democrats, enough.  Put the big boy pants on and get to work, enough of this "providing cover" stuff, Bush has been out of office for good chunk of time now...time to move on.

The economy was creating record tax revenue, the problem was the Republicans spending like drunken sailors and starting wars. They could have balanced the budget and even produced a true, not projected, surplus but instead they spent it all and more. I'm just a bit confused, the "Big Evil Rich People Tax Cuts", according to the CBO, were good for 70 billion per year, otherwise known as pissing in an ocean. I also just love it that MSNBC had the graph tell us that Obama is only responsible for 1.4T and the "Recession etc" (REALLY? Etc?) is responsible for the other 3T. Pretty shady. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the guest actually stated that there was record revenue and all things being equal the Admin. would have had a surplus....but the wars, spending and "all the other stuff" happened.

The Clinton tax hikes only accounted for 1% of the overall increase in revenue during the 90's. There was a "booming" economy that accounted for the rest just like it always does. Plus Clinton never gets the balanced budget without the Rep. controlled Congress.

Straw, I get why your posting this, but I just roll my eyes when I watch it. What's the point? To run cover? To put up a grade school presentation level graph to hide how much Obama is really responsible for? What about ObamaCare? What about his spending? Projected spending as well.....So Bush ran up the credit card, now Obama is on pace to make Bush II look like a tightwad but we won't talk about that because Chris Matthews dug up another Republican to tell us something that isn't surprising.

I just, I don't know. I'm tired of this crap.

only about 6.1 is attributed to Bush but part of Obama's # included the loss in revenue from the profound economic downturn which I would also give to Bush

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/07/28/us/charting-the-american-debt-crisis.html

$14.3 trillion in Total Debt: When the Debt Was Accumulated

How much and when the Debt Was Accumulated?

$2.4 Trillion: President Obama (2009-11) Stimulus spending, tax cuts, and the effects of 2007-9 recession in lost revenues and automatic spending, like unemployment compensation.

$6.1 Trillion: George W. Bush (2001-9) Tax cuts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, economic downturn in 2001 and recession starting in 2007.

$1.4 Trillion: Bill Clinton (1993-2001) Despite two years of on-budget surpluses, deficit spending in other years added to the debt.

$1.5 Trillion: George Bush (1989-93) The first gulf war and lower revenue from a recession.

$1.9 Trillion: Ronald Reagan (1981-89) Peacetime defense spending and permanent tax cuts.

$1.0 Trillion: Before Reagan (1981 and earlier) Deficit spending from wars and economic downturns

[Soul Crusher]

Funny how you completely ignore the role of the congress from 2007 on.

[Straw Man]

I addressed all this shit in another thread.
We are in the present now, 2011, shit is bad and the President and his administration aren't helping the situation. Tax cuts aren't a magic bullet and neither is Keynesian tactics, especially Keynesian bullshit.

Why hasn't Chris Matthews had a Clinton aide on or Bill himself to talk about why the fuck he signed off on the Gramm-Leach-Biley Act? That has been far more destructive and costly than any fucking tax cuts by anyone ever.

sorry I missed your thread

I barely even look at this site anymore with all the viruses

Grahamm-Leach-Biley was a signifcant factor of the credit market meltdown

all the financial havoc starting coming to a head in ~ 2006 and exploded by 2008

that doesn't change any of the facts about how the debt was accumulated

[Soul Crusher]

sorry I missed your thread

I barely even look at this site anymore with all the viruses

Grahamm-Leach-Biley was a signifcant factor of the credit market meltdown

all the financial havoc starting coming to a head in ~ 2006 and exploded by 2008

that doesn't change any of the facts about how the debt was accumulated

?   

Again - who defends bush? 

[GigantorX]

only about 6.1 is attributed to Bush but part of Obama's # included the loss in revenue from the profound economic downturn which I would also give to Bush

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/07/28/us/charting-the-american-debt-crisis.html

$14.3 trillion in Total Debt: When the Debt Was Accumulated

How much and when the Debt Was Accumulated?

$2.4 Trillion: President Obama (2009-11) Stimulus spending, tax cuts, and the effects of 2007-9 recession in lost revenues and automatic spending, like unemployment compensation.

$6.1 Trillion: George W. Bush (2001-9) Tax cuts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, economic downturn in 2001 and recession starting in 2007.

$1.4 Trillion: Bill Clinton (1993-2001) Despite two years of on-budget surpluses, deficit spending in other years added to the debt.

$1.5 Trillion: George Bush (1989-93) The first gulf war and lower revenue from a recession.

$1.9 Trillion: Ronald Reagan (1981-89) Peacetime defense spending and permanent tax cuts.

$1.0 Trillion: Before Reagan (1981 and earlier) Deficit spending from wars and economic downturns

Come on Straw, really?

"Automatic Spending"? Really?
"Economic Downturn"? Really?

This isn't a 100-300 billion dollar deficit we are talking about here, these are trillion dollar deficits here and Obama wants to pile on more. This is reckless. His Admin. doesn't even have an actual budget. The spending, stimulus etc hasn't worked, in fact, things have stayed the same or gotten worse, it's a terrible waste of capital. Bush and the Congress did plenty of harm as well, no doubt about it, but they did plenty of harm, Obama is now doing plenty of harm.

Plus the guy in the interview called Obama a "moderate conservative", which to me, kind of discredits him. Oh well, if he writes a column going against the Left or Obama he won't ever see an interview on MSNBC ever again.

I'm not some crazy fanatical political person, I'm informed and intelligent. "Interviews" (I use that term loosely) like the one that you posted with Chris Matthews just serve to make me roll my eyes and sigh deeply. Although I think, out of the confines of GetBig, we would have more in common politically.

[Fury]

Come on Straw, really?

"Automatic Spending"? Really?
"Economic Downturn"? Really?

This isn't a 100-300 billion dollar deficit we are talking about here, these are trillion dollar deficits here and Obama wants to pile on more. This is reckless. His Admin. doesn't even have an actual budget. The spending, stimulus etc hasn't worked, in fact, things have stayed the same or gotten worse, it's a terrible waste of capital. Bush and the Congress did plenty of harm as well, no doubt about it, but they did plenty of harm, Obama is now doing plenty of harm.

Plus the guy in the interview called Obama a "moderate conservative", which to me, kind of discredits him. Oh well, if he writes a column going against the Left or Obama he won't ever see an interview on MSNBC ever again.

I'm not some crazy fanatical political person, I'm informed and intelligent. "Interviews" (I use that term loosely) like the one that you posted with Chris Matthews just serve to make me roll my eyes and sigh deeply. Although I think, out of the confines of GetBig, we would have more in common politically.

You're wasting your time. Straw Man is your typical Keynesian fool. He actually argued (though he's too much of a c*nt to defend it) that we need to spend MORE to fix the economy. Apparently his leech friends in the unions haven't sucked enough blood out of the American taxpayer.

[Soul Crusher]

Problem is that it's who is doing the spending.    Govt spending does not work! 

[Straw Man]

Come on Straw, really?

"Automatic Spending"? Really?
"Economic Downturn"? Really?

This isn't a 100-300 billion dollar deficit we are talking about here, these are trillion dollar deficits here and Obama wants to pile on more. This is reckless. His Admin. doesn't even have an actual budget. The spending, stimulus etc hasn't worked, in fact, things have stayed the same or gotten worse, it's a terrible waste of capital. Bush and the Congress did plenty of harm as well, no doubt about it, but they did plenty of harm, Obama is now doing plenty of harm.

Plus the guy in the interview called Obama a "moderate conservative", which to me, kind of discredits him. Oh well, if he writes a column going against the Left or Obama he won't ever see an interview on MSNBC ever again.

I'm not some crazy fanatical political person, I'm informed and intelligent. "Interviews" (I use that term loosely) like the one that you posted with Chris Matthews just serve to make me roll my eyes and sigh deeply. Although I think, out of the confines of GetBig, we would have more in common politically.

Obama has this pesky problem of trying to manage the largest global economy and deal with aftermath of a financial meltdown

Yes, the government needs to spend money and we also need to raise more revenue and trim wasteful and unnecessary spending

We need to do ALL of those things

[Soul Crusher]

No we don't!   

The govt needs to stop spending and taxing so that private people can invest and spend. 

[Fury]

Problem is that it's who is doing the spending.    Govt spending does not work! 

It certainly doesn't work when you spend the trillion paying off your union cronies and dumping hundreds of millions into failed projects your donors started (solar panels).

This country is insolvent and we've got people who are actually there saying we need to spend more.

Obama has this pesky problem of trying to manage the largest global economy and deal with aftermath of a financial meltdown

Yes, the government needs to spend money and we also need to raise more revenue and trim wastefull and unnecessary spending

We need to do ALL of those things

Boofuckinghoo. He ASKED for the reins of this country. He said he could fix it. He hasn't. And it's falling off a cliff. Your profligate spending hasn't done anything but pushed this country right to the brink of the abyss.

0.4% GDP Q1. Revised down because he's a lying snake that has to doctor information to hide just how bad the economy really is.

He doubled-down on everything bad about Bush. Total and complete failure.

[GigantorX]

sorry I missed your thread

I barely even look at this site anymore with all the viruses

Grahamm-Leach-Biley was a signifcant factor of the credit market meltdown

all the financial havoc starting coming to a head in ~ 2006 and exploded by 2008

that doesn't change any of the facts about how the debt was accumulated

Yeah, this site has become pretty infested with shit outside of simply dumb posts...

Anyways, I used GLB or the Financial Modernization Act of 2000, to show that hosts, pundits etc aren't really interested in the truth and how we got here, they exist simply to propagate their view point to their audience and sell advertising.  The act repealed the last visages of Glass-Steagal and allowed all financial/banking/insurance agencies to consolidate thus giving us TBTF, the Banking Reform Act of 1994 also contributed to this...

But anyways, why are we arguing about this? Here we are, the house is on fire, the foundation is cracked and leaking, the dog just took a dump on the carpet and little Billy blew his dick off with an M-80 and Little Suzzy is a whore.....but 10 years ago the house had poor electrical wiring, a cracked foundation, the dog was a puppy and peeing every where, Billy was just into pot and Sally was only giving handjobs.

Big deal.

[Straw Man]

No we don't!    

The govt needs to stop spending and taxing so that private people can invest and spend. 

yes we do

the idea that some part of that formula is unavailable or off limits is nonsense and actually dangerous

if you watch the link you'll see the republican policy advisor to Ronald Reagan addresses this issue around 5:15 in the video

[GigantorX]

Obama has this pesky problem of trying to manage the largest global economy and deal with aftermath of a financial meltdown

Yes, the government needs to spend money and we also need to raise more revenue and trim wasteful and unnecessary spending

We need to do ALL of those things

1.) You'll get a very negligible amount of revenue by raising taxes, especially in a Recession like the one we are still in. No GDP growth + 9-10% U.E. = little gain from raising taxes. It will do more harm. Tax reform is what needs to happen, raising taxes is silly and in the end won't provide any meaningful revenue.

2.)What is "wasteful and unnecessary" spending? Military and some-other programs? What about entitlement reform? That, not tax cuts and military spending, is what will ultimately swallow us whole. 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities, are those fine and cool?

3.)And yes, the govt. needs to spend money as it has obligations and services/defense to provide for its citizens. But the govt. we have right now is frighteningly large and expansive with far to much power. In your opinion, what does it need to spend money on and how much? What if you think it should spend far more than it takes in? Do you raise taxes? How much? What happens when you find out that you can tax everyone at 100% and still not have enough? What then?

Don't just post videos and give vague responses to detailed posts. Be specific.

[Soul Crusher]

yes we do

the idea that some part of that formula is unavailable or off limits is nonsense and actually dangerous

if you watch the link you'll see the republican policy advisor to Ronald Reagan addresses this issue around 5:15 in the video

Oh freaking please straw.   Yeah, prosperity is only  a 75 percent marginal tax rate away.   


We tried spending trillions w the govt.   It failed.   Get over it. 

[George Whorewell]

Obama has this pesky problem of trying to manage the largest global economy and deal with aftermath of a financial meltdown

Yes, the government needs to spend money and we also need to raise more revenue and trim wasteful and unnecessary spending

We need to do ALL of those things

 

Awwww- poor him.  I feel terrible that he has such a difficult job. He's also black, has a funny sounding first name, grew up in Hawaii and has a wife that looks like a cross between bigfoot and ET. Does he get extra sympathy for those things as well?

[Straw Man]

1.) You'll get a very negligible amount of revenue by raising taxes, especially in a Recession like the one we are still in. No GDP growth + 9-10% U.E. = little gain from raising taxes. It will do more harm. Tax reform is what needs to happen, raising taxes is silly and in the end won't provide any meaningful revenue.

2.)What is "wasteful and unnecessary" spending? Military and some-other programs? What about entitlement reform? That, not tax cuts and military spending, is what will ultimately swallow us whole. 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities, are those fine and cool?

3.)And yes, the govt. needs to spend money as it has obligations and services/defense to provide for its citizens. But the govt. we have right now is frighteningly large and expansive with far to much power. In your opinion, what does it need to spend money on and how much? What if you think it should spend far more than it takes in? Do you raise taxes? How much? What happens when you find out that you can tax everyone at 100% and still not have enough? What then?

Don't just post videos and give vague responses to detailed posts. Be specific.

Of course raising marginal tax rates (and closing loopholes) raises revenue.  That's why Reagan, Bush 1 and Clinton all raised taxes. 

The reality is that we, as a nation, have not paid for the Bush tax cuts, 2 wars, Medicaid Part D etc.. that were never paid for and it's time to pay the bill.  Everyone needs to pay something.  If we let the Bush tax cuts expire then we go back to the tax rates under Clinton (hardly a major change) and EVERYONE contributes to paying down our debt.   Not just the rich but everyone.  Who could have a problem with that?

the idea that a major part of the equation....revenue..... is somehow off limits is complete nonsense