Ron Paul: Cut Foreign Aid, Unshackle Israel, Leave Iran Alone

[andreisdaman]

his foreign policy for the most part, its niave to think that we can just pack and leave some places and it not come back to bite us in the ass later on.

I agree on alot of places, but to think that if we leave them alone they will leave us alone is just plain niave.

I would be ok with surgical strikes/special forces etc as opposed to having a butt load of troops on the ground but we cant just think that if we leave them alone they wont bother us.

finally you have said something based in reality and worth-while.....you must have taken your meds this morning

[Soul Crusher]

finally you have said something based in reality and worth-while.....you must have taken your meds this morning

Did bam a wash your balls w the stim bill tonight? 

[Emmortal]

totally agree, but my point is that we cant simply have the attitude that we can ignore situations outside of our country and not expect to have negative consequences...

paul seems to hold the idea that we can basically turn our back on the entire worlds problems and we will be fine...

that is not realistic.

I'm not sure where you get that as I've never heard him say anything remotely close to it.  The talking heads enjoy leaping to such extents, but if you actually listen to what he has said it's far from the truth.  Pulling our troops out of unecessary wars =/= ignoring the rest of the world and hoping they don't do anything to us.

[Roger Bacon]

doesnt matter why they hate us at this point, the point is they hate us and US JUST LEAVING WONT STOP THAT!!!

do you guys disagree with that?

do you guys think if we leave them alone they will leave us alone?

So fucking what if they hate us?  Lets leave them alone in their country, and use all the money to beef up our own security.  We could start by securing our boarders.  They're wide open and none of these Middle Easterners have pulled anything off.  Maybe the threat has been blown out of proportion.  They could easily attack us, but they haven't.  Hmmm...

[Emmortal]

doesnt matter why they hate us at this point, the point is they hate us and US JUST LEAVING WONT STOP THAT!!!

do you guys disagree with that?

do you guys think if we leave them alone they will leave us alone?

You aren't going to stop anyone from hating us or kill every last one of them.  What you are suggesting is perpetual never ending war which isn't the answer.

[tonymctones]

There will always be miltants but the level of threat they become is totally tied in with what level we interfere over there, meaning,  chances of attack would be nil if we left the middle east alone.

LMFAO absoulutely niave my friend...

[tonymctones]

So fucking what if they hate us?  Lets leave them alone in their country, and use all the money to beef up our own security.  We could start by securing our boarders.  They're wide open and none of these Middle Easterners have pulled anything off.  Maybe the threat has been blown out of proportion.  They could easily attack us, but they haven't.  Hmmm...

I agree for the most part but again the idea that we can turn our back on the worlds problems is just plain idiotic.

we dont necissarily need to be involved to the extent we are now but we do need to be involved

[tonymctones]

I'm not sure where you get that as I've never heard him say anything remotely close to it.  The talking heads enjoy leaping to such extents, but if you actually listen to what he has said it's far from the truth.  Pulling our troops out of unecessary wars =/= ignoring the rest of the world and hoping they don't do anything to us.

nah just him, he isnt just about pulling out of the wars which I agree with as long as we are still able to prevent them from attacking us or our assets abroad.

he has some what of an isolationist view of what our role should be, i disagree with it and think he takes it a tad to far is all

[Emmortal]

nah just him, he isnt just about pulling out of the wars which I agree with as long as we are still able to prevent them from attacking us or our assets abroad.

he has some what of an isolationist view of what our role should be, i disagree with it and think he takes it a tad to far is all

Yea I can see that.  I don't see it being an issue if he were president.  He still has congress to deal with and we all know how far that would get.

[tonymctones]

You aren't going to stop anyone from hating us or kill every last one of them.  What you are suggesting is perpetual never ending war which isn't the answer.

Not at all, why is it either we have to have an all out war or not even worry about them?

what I am for is as I said earlier, surgical strikes/special ops etc...

fact of the matter is they arent going away there are always going to be ppl that try to hurt us for whatever nutjob reason. Do we need to go to war not necissarily its much less messy to have small but directed operations imho.

[Emmortal]

Not at all, why is it either we have to have an all out war or not even worry about them?

what I am for is as I said earlier, surgical strikes/special ops etc...

fact of the matter is they arent going away there are always going to be ppl that try to hurt us for whatever nutjob reason. Do we need to go to war not necissarily its much less messy to have small but directed operations imho.

I can agree to that, I didn't see that part of your post.  Again, like I said above, I doubt that his personal views as some see it of completely pulling our troops out of all the countries and bases around the world would ever make it to fruition if he were president.

[tonymctones]

I can agree to that, I didn't see that part of your post.  Again, like I said above, I doubt that his personal views as some see it of completely pulling our troops out of all the countries and bases around the world would ever make it to fruition if he were president.

I agree same with obama and gitmo...

[Skip8282]

Highly unlikely he wins the Iowa straw poll, but even if he does, it's not a predictor of whether he will win the nomination.  Romney won the last one.  McCain was third. 

If you want to more accurately gauge his chances, you should look at how he performed in his home state of Texas in the 2008 primary, and whether he can beat someone like Perry in the 2012 Texas primary. 

If I had to guess, I'd say he comes in third or fourth.  But who knows?  He has some rabid supporters.   

I'm giving him 50/50 this go around.  He started in Iowa earlier than anyone else, fairly experienced managers - though nothing star worthy, and he's got the money to put up the infrastructure.

[Dos Equis]

I'm giving him 50/50 this go around.  He started in Iowa earlier than anyone else, fairly experienced managers - though nothing star worthy, and he's got the money to put up the infrastructure.

Do you mean 50/50 in Iowa or for the Republican nomination?  If you mean Iowa, I agree with that.  I think Bachmann should win Iowa if for no other reason than it's in her backyard, but Ron Paul has spent a lot of time and money there 

If you mean the nomination, I don't see it. 

[quadzilla456]

doesnt matter why they hate us at this point, the point is they hate us and US JUST LEAVING WONT STOP THAT!!!

do you guys disagree with that?

do you guys think if we leave them alone they will leave us alone?

They hate us because we've bombed the shit out of them. And as Ron Paul says: "We just marched in and we can just march out".

What is interesting is that yes the rag heads hate Americans - almost as much as the American government and elites hate Americans. Almost. The rag heads definitely don't hate the British as much as the British government and elites hate the British.

[Dos Equis]

They hate us because we've bombed the shit out of them. And as Ron Paul says: "We just marched in and we can just march out".

They hate our entire way of life and the fact we support Israel. 

[outby43]

They hate our entire way of life and the fact we support Israel. 

Because the only thing they see from us is occupation of foreign land.  If we kept to ourselves I bet most people wouldn't even give the U.S. a thought.  I don't hear to much uprising from the Middle East about Argentina for instance.  The US has a puppet master complex.

[Dos Equis]

Because the only thing they see from us is occupation of foreign land.  If we kept to ourselves I bet most people wouldn't even give the U.S. a thought.  I don't hear to much uprising from the Middle East about Argentina for instance.  The US has a puppet master complex.

You should read what they actually say about us.  Occupation is only one issue.  Support for Israel is another.  Our entire "corrupt" culture is another.  We could pull every boot off the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan and they would still hate us.  

What's ironic is how some of them come to the U.S. for higher education, then return to their roots with the same views.  

[Roger Bacon]

You should read what they actually say about us.  Occupation is only one issue.  Support for Israel is another.  Our entire "corrupt" culture is another.  We could pull every boot off the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan and they would still hate us.  

What's ironic is how some of them come to the U.S. for higher education, then return to their roots with the same views.  

I can list countries that hate us for a million reasons all day long.  Doesn't mean we need to attack them, destroy their countries, and go broke doing so.

[Bindare_Dundat]

I can list countries that hate us for a million reasons all day long.  Doesn't mean we need to attack them, destroy their countries, and go broke doing so.

Amen.

[Deicide]

You should read what they actually say about us.  Occupation is only one issue.  Support for Israel is another.  Our entire "corrupt" culture is another.  We could pull every boot off the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan and they would still hate us.  

What's ironic is how some of them come to the U.S. for higher education, then return to their roots with the same views.  

Oh brother...they hate us because we are free. 10 years later and people are still...in a serious tone...saying this.

[Dos Equis]

Oh brother...they hate us because we are free. 10 years later and people are still...in a serious tone...saying this.

In part.  Part of our culture includes the freedom of women to divorce their husbands, adults to buy porn, Hollywood to make movies, other freedom of expression, etc. 

I'd recommend "The Looming Tower" if you want to learn more about what makes Radical Islamists tick and why they hate us. 

[Deicide]

In part.  Part of our culture includes the freedom of women to divorce their husbands, adults to buy porn, Hollywood to make movies, other freedom of expression, etc. 

I'd recommend "The Looming Tower" if you want to learn more about what makes Radical Islamists tick and why they hate us. 

And I would recommend Robert Pape's work, which is the definitive work on suicide terrorism to you but you won't like what you read because it does not confirm what you want to believe.

Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism Robert Pape

[Dos Equis]

And I would recommend Robert Pape's work, which is the definitive work on suicide terrorism to you but you won't like what you read because it does not confirm what you want to believe.

Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism Robert Pape

Unlike you, I read things I disagree with all the time.  Check out the book.  It will give you a better understanding of what we're up against. 

[Deicide]

Unlike you, I read things I disagree with all the time.  Check out the book.  It will give you a better understanding of what we're up against. 

"[T]he taproot of suicide terrorism is nationalism" not religion (79). It is "an extreme strategy for national liberation" (80). This explains how the local community can be persuaded to re-define acts of suicide and murder as acts of martyrdom on behalf of the community (81-83). Pape proposes a nationalist theory of suicide terrorism, seen from the point of view of terrorists. He analyzes the notions of occupation (83-84), homeland (84-85), identity (85-87), religious difference as a contributor to a sense of "alien" occupation (87-88), foreign occupation reverses the relative importance of religion and language (88-92), and the widespread perception of the method as a "last resort" (92-94). A statistical demonstration leads to the conclusion that a "linear" rather than "self-reinforcing spiral" explanation of suicide terrorism is best (94-100). However, different future developments of the phenomenon of suicide terrorism are very possible, and more study of the role of religion is needed (101).
[edit]

Robert Pape examines other campaigns to see if the "dynamics that make religious difference important" are present in other terrorist campaigns, acknowledging the difficulty of the inquiry (126-29). He offers detailed analyses of Lebanon (129-39), Sri Lanka (139-54), the Sikhs in Punjab (154-62), and the Kurdish PKK in Turkey (162-66). His conclusion: "Religion plays a role in suicide terrorism, but mainly in the context of national resistance" and not Islam per se but "the dynamics of religious difference" are what matter (166-67).