Ron Paul: Cut Foreign Aid, Unshackle Israel, Leave Iran Alone

[Dos Equis]

Robert Pape examines other campaigns to see if the "dynamics that make religious difference important" are present in other terrorist campaigns, acknowledging the difficulty of the inquiry (126-29). He offers detailed analyses of Lebanon (129-39), Sri Lanka (139-54), the Sikhs in Punjab (154-62), and the Kurdish PKK in Turkey (162-66). His conclusion: "Religion plays a role in suicide terrorism, but mainly in the context of national resistance" and not Islam per se but "the dynamics of religious difference" are what matter (166-67).

That's absurd.  Radical Islamists come from different countries to work together based on common religious views.  They're not acting based on allegiance to a particular country. 

[Deicide]

That's absurd.  Radical Islamists come from different countries to work together based on common religious views.  They're not acting based on allegiance to a particular country. 

You're missing the point; their allegiance is to 'get rid of the occupier'.

[Dos Equis]

You're missing the point; their allegiance is to 'get rid of the occupier'.

I'm not missing his point at all.  Here is his premise: "[T]he taproot of suicide terrorism is nationalism" not religion (79). It is "an extreme strategy for national liberation" (80).

That's what I called absurd.  

If he (or you) are suggesting they want to get rid of "occupiers," I agree.  That is part of why they want to kill us.  

[quadzilla456]

In part.  Part of our culture includes the freedom of women to divorce their husbands, adults to buy porn, Hollywood to make movies, other freedom of expression, etc.  

I'd recommend "The Looming Tower" if you want to learn more about what makes Radical Islamists tick and why they hate us.  

Because of this freedom women divorce their husbands for bullshit reasons. And buying porn is a great thing?! Hollywood is making movies to suit their agenda.

Beach Bum, if you really think they hate us because of these reasons you are naive. Their INITIAL hate has been a complete fabrication. Of course they really do hate us NOW because we've bombed their cities and killed their families. America has been used as the foot soldier by the elites for all their sick agendas.

[OzmO]

It is our support of Israel, plain and simple.  The rest of it is how they use religion to partially justify their hate and garner support.   

[Dos Equis]

Because of this freedom women divorce their husbands for bullshit reasons. And buying porn is a great thing?! Hollywood is making movies to suit their agenda.

Beach Bum, if you really think they hate us because of these reasons you are naive. Their INITIAL hate has been a complete fabrication. Of course they really do hate us NOW because we've bombed their cities and killed their families. America has been used as the foot soldier by the elites for all their sick agendas.

I only know what I have seen, heard, and read.  That's what I base my opinion on.  

I was giving you examples of portions of our culture that those folks find corrupt.  

War/occupation is only part of the reason they hate us.    If it was just about military action, then Radical Islamists would only come from Iraq and Afghanistan, and not places like Yemen, Saudi Arabia, etc.  

[tonymctones]

Notice how NONE, NOT ONE person who is for pulling out all together has answered this question...

do you think that if we leave them alone, they will leave us alone?

at this point it doesnt matter why they hate us, the fact is there will always be ppl that want to hurt us here in the mainland and our assets abroad...

pauls isolationist views and turning a blind eye to potential long term threats isnt a good position to have.

[outby43]

I only know what I have seen, heard, and read.  That's what I base my opinion on.  

I was giving you examples of portions of our culture that those folks find corrupt.  

War/occupation is only part of the reason they hate us.    If it was just about military action, then Radical Islamists would only come from Iraq and Afghanistan, and not places like Yemen, Saudi Arabia, etc.  

The radicals recruit from all over because they offer money to them or their families and false hopes of becoming a martyr for their action.  Typical brainwashing, which doesn't take much when they are already a little off to begin with.  They use these people like the elites use our forces to push their agenda.

[tonymctones]

IF WE LEAVE THEM ALONE, DO YOU THINK THEY WILL LEAVE US ALONE???

anybody?

[GigantorX]

"Evrery one" is so "afraid" of not spending enough of defense and not persucuting wars.................... ........that it would make us sooooooooooooooo unsafe and such..REALLY?

Listen tot the idealouges, 750 billion dollars is just fine to spend on defense becassue WE NEED IT....well, a few years ago 500 billion was a number you couldn't cut and a year or 2 before that 400 billion was a number that you just could not cut bc we would all die and stuff.

please, save it. enough war. we need a milirary that can strike anywhere at any time with an unbelievable amt of force to DETER dumbasses. You spend a few hundered billion a year so you don't have to pay a TRILLION A YEAR.

that seems aeast to me.


and yes, im drunk. my bud is a brewer and he had some "experimental" stuff.....it was gfooood. obviouslyt.

[Roger Bacon]

IF WE LEAVE THEM ALONE, DO YOU THINK THEY WILL LEAVE US ALONE???

anybody?

Our boarders are wide open, they can easily obtain weapons, poisons, and even nuclear material yet they aren't attacking us?

We on the other hand have killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis.

I'm sorry to say this, but you're a fool.



Lets stay in the Middle East ten more years, and see if it doesn't destroy us.

[tonymctones]

Our boarders are wide open, they can easily obtain weapons, poisons, and even nuclear material yet they aren't attacking us?

We on the other hand have killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis.

I'm sorry to say this, but you're a fool to

LMFAO first of all there have been a number of attempted attacks on our homeland even some succesful.

so you think that if we pack up tomorrow, they will never attack an embassy, never try to harm the mainland or any americans abroad?

really???

and im the fool?

[GigantorX]

when is too war enough? this country has been at war for 50 years. war economy, war footing, war posturung.

we need a total dominace via our military so we dont hav eto go to war.

Lets get real.

[Roger Bacon]

We allow several rogue cave men to fly planes into our towers killing three thousand Americans.

Ten years later we're on the brink of collapse (by purely our own doing), and we've killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians from a country that had absolutely nothing to do with the people that attacked us.

Hmmm....


People like Bindare, 240, Hugo, MB_722 were rare odd balls back in 2004.  As time goes by they're proven right over and over on issue after issue. They're increasing in numbers, and now most people share their opinions.  Glad to see that.

[tonymctones]

when is too war enough? this country has been at war for 50 years. war economy, war footing, war posturung.

we need a total dominace via our military so we dont hav eto go to war.

Lets get real.

agreed, doesnt mean isolating ourselves from the worlds problems is the answer...

why is every ron paul fan believe it has to be one way or the other, there is no middle ground?

[tonymctones]

We allow several rogue cave men to fly planes into our towers killing three thousand Americans.

Ten years later we're on the brink of collapse (by purely our own doing), and we've killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians from a country that had absolutely nothing to do with the people that attacked us.

Hmmm....


People like Bindare, 240, Hugo, MB_722 were rare odd balls back in 2004.  As time goes by they're proven right over and over on issue after issue. They're increasing in numbers, and now most people share their opinions.  Glad to see that.

LOL are you a 9/11 truther too?

LOL you didnt answer any of my questions, nor address any of my points...

well done sir, well done.

[GigantorX]

agreed, doesnt mean isolating ourselves from the worlds problems is the answer...

why is every ron paul fan believe it has to be one way or the other, there is no middle ground?

I hear you.

The US is THE superpower so we have unique responsibilites to care he defesne load for the socialist idiots in Europe and all that. Fuck them, fuck all of them. Pay your own way and quietly thank us for providing you a security blanket so you could build your economies post war.


I want a total dominace militarty that is a DETERRENT. The best military is the one that never goers to war.

[tonymctones]

I hear you.

The US is THE superpower so we have unique responsibilites to care he defesne load for the socialist idiots in Europe and all that. Fuck them, fuck all of them. Pay your own way and quietly thank us for providing you a security blanket so you could build your economies post war.


I want a total dominace militarty that is a DETERRENT. The best military is the one that never goers to war.

agreed, which is one of the reasons iran behaves the way it does, if they knew we wouldnt react, do you guys really think they would restrain themselves the way they have?

as for europe etc, I could care less...if someone is a threat to us now or long term we need to be involved in the situation plane and simple, to what extent is the point. Paul believes we can turn a blind eye to potential problems like Iran

he also seems to believe that if we leave the middle east tomorrow then they will simply leave us alone, THATS ABOUT AS NIAVE AS YOU CAN GET!!!

[Roger Bacon]

Your question is bogus, so it won't be completely addressed.

Ron Paul doesn't advocate isolating us from the world. He advocates ending mindless, senseless wars like the one in Iraq, or the "engagement" in Libya that's brought our own country to the brink of financial collapse.  He's also advocated beefing up our own domestic security.    

This isn't extremely complex, his policies would clearly put us in a better position from a financial and security stand point.

[Roger Bacon]

I like your idea more though!

Lets keep fighting endless wars against an undefined enemy, killing our soldiers and innocent children in Iraq until we've completely self destructed.

[GigantorX]

How much endless, protracted war is enough?

How many thousands of US soldiers is enough?

How many trillions of dollars is enough?

Is 5000 US soldiers enough?


I dont know, I just did an equipment install at a VA in IL...just stepping foot in there is a wake up call. There is aframed picture in the entrance that reads "WELCOME TO VA HINES, THE PRICE OF FREEDOM IS VISIBLE HERE"....now I've had friends "over there" my grandfather was "over there" my dad and his other 2 brothers were "over there"....

it hits you, when is enough enough?

[Emmortal]

Notice how NONE, NOT ONE person who is for pulling out all together has answered this question...

do you think that if we leave them alone, they will leave us alone?

Let me turn that around by asking you this, do you think if we stay there we are going to eradicate all of them and they will leave us alone?

[tu_holmes]

Let me turn that around by asking you this, do you think if we stay there we are going to eradicate all of them and they will leave us alone?

This... and on top of that, if we do pull out, won't we have more troops HERE to defense our borders and take care of anyone trying to actually do harm to the US?

Tony, do you think they will leave us alone either way?

I don't... So let's bring the guys here so they can "Defend" (You know, they provide for The Common Defense... Not OFFENSE) the nation.

[George Whorewell]

Let me turn that around by asking you this, do you think if we stay there we are going to eradicate all of them and they will leave us alone?

This topic is why "Decide" makes my skin crawl and even though I like Emmortal, I feel like smashing his head through a concrete wall.

This idiotic and false assumption that Islamist fanatics will lay down their arms and embrace freedom if we merely stop "occupying" Muslim land is so stupid it defies explanation.

Do you morons know anything about Islam or world history?

We are at war against an ideology that has more than 1 billion adherents-- The supposed battleground between primitive cockroaches and the civilized world rests in Israel right? Can any of you that support Ron Paul piece together a coherent argument that rationally articulates how or why America abandoning its interests/ allies in the region will put an end to Al Queda/ the numerous warped off-springs that threaten our national security on a daily basis?

There is not a single shred of evidence that appeasement will work with these animals. Not one. You Ron Paul supporters that applaud his foreign policy are merely useful idiots. You  are no different than Hugo Chavez, Sean Penn or any other mindless liberal stooge that hates America.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.- Winston Churchill

[Emmortal]

This topic is why "Decide" makes my skin crawl and even though I like Emmortal, I feel like smashing his head through a concrete wall.

This idiotic and false assumption that Islamist fanatics will lay down their arms and embrace freedom if we merely stop "occupying" Muslim land is so stupid it defies explanation.

Do you morons know anything about Islam or world history?

We are at war against an ideology that has more than 1 billion adherents-- The supposed battleground between primitive cockroaches and the civilized world rests in Israel right? Can any of you that support Ron Paul piece together a coherent argument that rationally articulates how or why America abandoning its interests/ allies in the region will put an end to Al Queda/ the numerous warped off-springs that threaten our national security on a daily basis?

There is not a single shred of evidence that appeasement will work with these animals. Not one. You Ron Paul supporters that applaud his foreign policy are merely useful idiots. You  are no different than Hugo Chavez, Sean Penn or any other mindless liberal stooge that hates America.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.- Winston Churchill

I have zero false pretenses of the threat they pose to us nor do I have carry the assumption that they will just lay down and embrace freedom in any way whatsoever.  I agreed with Tommy earlier in the thread that we shouldn't pull out of our bases and should keep them to give us a tactical striking ability.  I just question the perpetual never ending war and wonder if from a tactical standpoint if surgical strikes and smaller operations would be better.