GH15: lagging chest, better to train tri/delts the day before?

[theworm]

If one wants to build up there chest and has decent tris/delts that overpower chest, would it be better to train shoulders and tris the day before chest training?

theory is that on chest day, delts and tris would be sore/tired etc, and pec muscles will take more of the work and grow more, etc...

anything to this?

[Red Hook]

look into pre-exhaustion.. hit the pec deck or do flies before your chest routine.

[purenaturalstrength]

the secret is smiths and hammers and lots of trenbolona and growth hormona

purenaturalstrength approved

[The_Iron_Disciple]

look into pre-exhaustion.. hit the pec deck or do flies before your chest routine.

This x1000000. Hittin' the tri's and / or delts before a chest day doesn't make any sense at all. If anything, it would deter you from gettin' a full workout on your chest day. Think about it.

[theworm]

This x1000000. Hittin' the tri's and / or delts before a chest day doesn't make any sense at all. If anything, it would deter you from gettin' a full workout on your chest day. Think about it.

if worked the day before, the tris would be fatiqued, and then on chest day, the chest would be doing most of the work.   get the tris out, and chest will grow more.

look at BBs with no tris (Arnold, Ruhl, etc), they had the best chests!

[mitchyboy]

The reason tris smaller then chest is chest is activated more then tris. If ur tris and delts are sore tired, you wont be able to hit chest with decent intensity. You will only make the problem worse. Pre exaust is your best bet. If you truly pre exaust with 4 to 6 sets of flys, getting a good pump and fatigue through you whole chest, it will actualy take delts and tris out of the movments.

[theworm]

The reason tris smaller then chest is chest is activated more then tris. If ur tris and delts are sore tired, you wont be able to hit chest with decent intensity. You will only make the problem worse. Pre exaust is your best bet. If you truly pre exaust with 4 to 6 sets of flys, getting a good pump and fatigue through you whole chest, it will actualy take delts and tris out of the movments.

hard to understand, seems like chest being fatiqued, the tris would take over more in pressing exercises...

[apply85]

Sounds like a good way to hurt your shoulder

[The_Iron_Disciple]

I tell ya what, Worm, keep doin' and what your doin' and watch what happens at some point. Your settin' yourself up for injury, my friend. AGAIN, think about it.

[mitchyboy]

If your not sold on the pre exaust try something called intentions. You basicaly try to bring your hands together in a fly motion on all exercises for chest especialy presses.  Ego trainers hate this and usualy give up before it even has a chance to work.
Sac up, lighten the poundage, and grip the bar tightly, act like your trying to bring your hands to the center of the bar, but dont let them slide. Maintain that lateral tension through out all sets, and your chest will give out long long before you tris or delts, garunteed.

[theworm]

If your not sold on the pre exaust try something called intentions. You basicaly try to bring your hands together in a fly motion on all exercises for chest especialy presses.  Ego trainers hate this and usualy give up before it even has a chance to work.
Sac up, lighten the poundage, and grip the bar tightly, act like your trying to bring your hands to the center of the bar, but dont let them slide. Maintain that lateral tension through out all sets, and your chest will give out long long before you tris or delts, garunteed.

thats makes sence.   also, i dropped the weight a lot my last workout and really increased the volume (jay cultler method),,, really felt sore the next day.

[Hulkotron]

Not sure why you are asking gh15 for training advice, the answer is to up the dosage.

[Chick]

If one wants to build up there chest and has decent tris/delts that overpower chest, would it be better to train shoulders and tris the day before chest training?

theory is that on chest day, delts and tris would be sore/tired etc, and pec muscles will take more of the work and grow more, etc...

anything to this?

There are many reasons why guys have a tough time building up the chest...most of it having to do with training too heavy, and using too much delts and tris. Another point to consider, is that when someones chest is lacking in development, 99% of the time, it means their UPPER chest is lacking...

As most guys using the standard 45 degree incline angle will never hit the upper pecs, I always found using 55 to 70 degrees can be of benefit to hit the void between the delts and pecs (pec/delt tie in area)

Putting too much emphasis into the BP is also a common mistake...where the incline is much more beneficial, especially DB.

Training the tris and delts the day before will only beat up the shoulders even more...when preservation should be the key...basically, youre inviting injury.

using a wider grip will help isolate the chest from the delts and tris, as guys tend to shorten up the grip as going heavy seems to make sense as the pursuit of a bigger chest is the goal.....in reality, this will lead to working the chest much LESS...

Also...put an arch into the back when performing any and all chest exercises...this will help to place the stress on the pecs, the more "flatbacked" you are, the more the delts and tris will kick in...another result of training too heavy.

There is a difference between PUSHING and PRESSING...this is what advanced BBers are talking about when they discuss the "mind/muscle" connection...

TRAIN SMARTER, NOT HARDER

[haider]

[Hypertrophy]

Nice training advice from Chick! Unfortunately I made all the mistakes he mentioned, lol. Only after I dropped the weight did I see my chest grow.

[Nasty Nate]

There are many reasons why guys have a tough time building up the chest...most of it having to do with training too heavy, and using too much delts and tris. Another point to consider, is that when someones chest is lacking in development, 99% of the time, it means their UPPER chest is lacking...

As most guys using the standard 45 degree incline angle will never hit the upper pecs, I always found using 55 to 70 degrees can be of benefit to hit the void between the delts and pecs (pec/delt tie in area)

Putting too much emphasis into the BP is also a common mistake...where the incline is much more beneficial, especially DB.

Training the tris and delts the day before will only beat up the shoulders even more...when preservation should be the key...basically, youre inviting injury.

using a wider grip will help isolate the chest from the delts and tris, as guys tend to shorten up the grip as going heavy seems to make sense as the pursuit of a bigger chest is the goal.....in reality, this will lead to working the chest much LESS...

Also...put an arch into the back when performing any and all chest exercises...this will help to place the stress on the pecs, the more "flatbacked" you are, the more the delts and tris will kick in...another result of training too heavy.

There is a difference between PUSHING and PRESSING...this is what advanced BBers are talking about when they discuss the "mind/muscle" connection...

TRAIN SMARTER, NOT HARDER

Great post, Bob. I agree with your insights on training.

[GroinkTropin]

look into pre-exhaustion.. hit the pec deck or do flies before your chest routine.

This is only half of it.

I developed a sick routine to bring my chest up, it has worked perfectly.

Pre-exhaust with 1-2 flye or cable crossover movements and while doing that, do some pulley rows and pulldowns to warm up lats traps and rhomboids. Antagonistic warmup essentially mixed with pre-exhaust. Then move to 2 pressing movements, finish with a compound set of flyes to crossovers. On the flyes max the stretch, on the crossovers max the peak contraction. Works like a charm, and my chest has sucked for years.

[kh300]

There are many reasons why guys have a tough time building up the chest...most of it having to do with training too heavy, and using too much delts and tris. Another point to consider, is that when someones chest is lacking in development, 99% of the time, it means their UPPER chest is lacking...

As most guys using the standard 45 degree incline angle will never hit the upper pecs, I always found using 55 to 70 degrees can be of benefit to hit the void between the delts and pecs (pec/delt tie in area)

Putting too much emphasis into the BP is also a common mistake...where the incline is much more beneficial, especially DB.

Training the tris and delts the day before will only beat up the shoulders even more...when preservation should be the key...basically, youre inviting injury.

using a wider grip will help isolate the chest from the delts and tris, as guys tend to shorten up the grip as going heavy seems to make sense as the pursuit of a bigger chest is the goal.....in reality, this will lead to working the chest much LESS...

Also...put an arch into the back when performing any and all chest exercises...this will help to place the stress on the pecs, the more "flatbacked" you are, the more the delts and tris will kick in...another result of training too heavy.

There is a difference between PUSHING and PRESSING...this is what advanced BBers are talking about when they discuss the "mind/muscle" connection...

TRAIN SMARTER, NOT HARDER

I remember you demonstrating this on your masters series. Very good info but its rarely ever mentioned.

[chess315]

i have an old school 70 degree incline in my basement i use to never use it but have started

[Nails]

I have tried it all ... And after 15 yrs of training I realized I have no genetics for thick pecks ... I still work it put but Dont expect anything more then a pump

[GroinkTropin]

I have tried it all ... And after 15 yrs of training I realized I have no genetics for thick pecks ... I still work it put but Dont expect anything more then a pump

Bullshit!

[Schmoff]

There are many reasons why guys have a tough time building up the chest...most of it having to do with training too heavy, and using too much delts and tris. Another point to consider, is that when someones chest is lacking in development, 99% of the time, it means their UPPER chest is lacking...

As most guys using the standard 45 degree incline angle will never hit the upper pecs, I always found using 55 to 70 degrees can be of benefit to hit the void between the delts and pecs (pec/delt tie in area)

Putting too much emphasis into the BP is also a common mistake...where the incline is much more beneficial, especially DB.

Training the tris and delts the day before will only beat up the shoulders even more...when preservation should be the key...basically, youre inviting injury.

using a wider grip will help isolate the chest from the delts and tris, as guys tend to shorten up the grip as going heavy seems to make sense as the pursuit of a bigger chest is the goal.....in reality, this will lead to working the chest much LESS...

Also...put an arch into the back when performing any and all chest exercises...this will help to place the stress on the pecs, the more "flatbacked" you are, the more the delts and tris will kick in...another result of training too heavy.

There is a difference between PUSHING and PRESSING...this is what advanced BBers are talking about when they discuss the "mind/muscle" connection...

TRAIN SMARTER, NOT HARDER

one of the best posts by chick, can you elaborate more on the bold part?

 

[Chick]

one of the best posts by chick, can you elaborate more on the bold part?

 

Sure can


Lets use the BP as an example...Used as a training tool, the correct form would be to arch the back so that I could pass my arm between you and the bench, at the small of the back...grip would be wider than shoulder width.

this positioning alone, will fix 90% of the problems...

Now...the use of a "non grip" will be crucial for the ability to use a pressing motion , as opposed to a push....you dont need a thumbless grip per se, just dont need to white knuckle the bar with an iron grip....the harder you grip, the more focus is directed to using the arms, tris and back muscles....none of which are being targeted in this exercise.

In effect, what you need to do is relax all the other muscle groups, and focus ONLY on PRESSING the weight up...not PUSHING the weight up using every muscle in your body with legs flailing about, etc...

You know why push ups are such a great chest builder?  Because there is ZERO grip involved....none.  same attention should be given to any chest exercise in this senario...inclines, DB, flys, pec deck, etc...same positioning, same non grip...

The "mind/ muscle" connection is basically a means of directing focus to one group while eliminating another...

I see guys doing curls, and their neck/ traps/ shoulders/ forearms are getting all the work...not so much to the actual curl itself...channeling their effort into getting the weight from position A to B...when the goal should be to relax those groups and zero in on the motion of the curl with the bicep...relaxed grip to eliminate the forearms, shoulders relaxed and back to eliminate the push from the rear delt...

Thats why you see guys heaving up the 80 lb. DBs...but dont really have big arms.

[deceiver]

What if I cant feel any chest on flies, pec deck, dips and so on? I feel my shoulders getting sore and that's it. O and I never felt any chest doing pushups in my entire life.

[mesmorph78]

if you havent already...
switch to dumbells